Cyprus-Forum.com

[Paphitis]

"No Potassium! I have provided a lot of resources to this forum and links to much of the material I mentioned above over the years."
You are not doing it now, that is my point here. I will not bother researching because you are not able to prove your point by yourself. You are not convincing me that the Brits did help the Cypriots during the invasion.

And I do not have to as I am not your wikipedia or librarian. You could do it yourself.

Knowledge is a personal responsibility!

You are not convincing me that the Brits did help the Cypriots during the invasion.

They didn't. Otherwise there wouldn't have been such an unprecedented, barbaric slaughter of Greek civilians. The Turks would also never have managed to gain so much territory after ceasefire was called if the Brits wanted it any other way. They are now safe in the knowledge they are not the only foreign military base on the island and their position is secure.

Remember the time when the Turkish Air Force was dropping Napalm Bombs and you were running for your life.

Well I would like to point out 2 things:

Turkey was actually planning an invasion. You know who stopped that one? The Good ole USA! Do you have a headache now?

The second thing I would like to point out is the pilot that tried to bomb you, missed!

But in order to re-educate potassium, Oracle and Cap, here is much of the information you seek;

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

cyprus40703.html

This thread is to combat many myths as to the level of Britain's Complicity in the 1974 Coup and Invasion.

Sometimes I am astounded at the lack of circumspect factual analysis pertaining to these sad events. Many members have stated on many occasions that Britain was somehow involved and complicit with the US and Greece. Many also believe that Britain supported the Turkish Invasion that followed. This, according to many solid sources, is not the case. This, unfortunately leads to a lot of disgusting anti British sentiment, and some members unjustly attack other British forumers. I too have been guilty at times, but such behaviour is more damaging to our cause.

In addition, I would like to point out that Britain played a very positive role in support of the RoC and against the Coup and Invasion. The Foreign Affairs Minister, Mr. Callaghan and the then British PM were without doubt most sympathetic to our plight.

Britain, was instrumental in saving Makarios' from the Greek Coupists. It was clear that Greece and the US wanted him dead to facilitate the dissolution of the RoC and have Double Enosis. Their British Army physically flew him by Chopper to Akrotiri, and from there they flew him out of Cyprus on a British Military Aircraft. Clear enough evidence for me, that Britain played no role in the Coup other than playing an instrunmental role in its ultimate failure!

They haggled and wrestled with Ececit, and Kissinger. Attempting to thwart the upcoming catastrophe to Cyprus or at least buy some time so that they can mobilise their own forces. They were instrumental in achieving the first ceasefire on 22 Jul 74 and demanded that the invasion stop right there. Kissinger assured Callaghan that this will be the case, but he lied and later the second invasion began its land grab. Callaghan was furious and demanded a Turkish retreat even. Kissinger told Callaghan that nothing can be done because of Watergate.

There were even instances whereby Callaghan warned Kissinger that Britain would be forced to act militarily. This of course did not occur. The stakes were too high and the invasion had Kissinger's full support.

There are many sources people can read. Here are a few:

The Turkish Intervention, July-August 1974
http://www.cyprus-conflict.net/30%20Hot%20Days.html

The Cyprus Conspiracy: America, Espionage and the Turkish Invasion
http://books.google.com.au/books/about/ ... reepIYrtIC

The Cyprus Conflict
http://cyprus-conflict.net/Table%20of%20Contents.html

Operation Ablaut
July-August 1974
http://ukmamsoba.org/ablaut.html

House of Commons Hansard
HC Deb 15 July 1957 vol 573 cc771-902
http://hansard.millbanksystems.com/commons/1957/jul/15/cyprus

US Department of State
Foreign Relations, 1969-1976
Greece; Cyprus; Turkey, 1973-1976
http://2001-2009.state.gov/r/pa/prs/ps/2007/dec/97941.htm
http://2001-2009.state.gov/r/pa/ho/frus/nixon/xxx/index.htm

http://2001-2009.state.gov/documents/organization/96607.pdf
http://2001-2009.state.gov/documents/organization/96606.pdf
http://2001-2009.state.gov/documents/organization/96609.pdf

What is also telling is the fact that Britain and the US have released a lot of their classified information. Greece refuses to do so. After looking at relevant sources it appears Greece is keen to cover up the true extent of betrayal.

Regards

P

Start reading!

[Paphitis]

Ooh, I just realised we are in the General Chat section and this topic is very political now.

Let's move it over to Cyprus Problem if you wish to continue your enlightenment. Dr. Paphitis will be at your service!

Take a seat on my couch right here:

cyprus40703.html

Now Oracle, let's begin with you.

[Oceanside50]

Brits help the Cypriots.
No chance.

We were alone then, we are alone now.

The information is all out there. If anyone choses not to believe it then i think they are making a big mistake. A spat between Greece and Turkey was one thing but military conflict between the UK and Turkey would be something else. Kissinger basically put the knife in to stop Britain being active as he saw that would probably rupture Nato to the benefit of the USSR. Turkey at the time and still is more geopolitically important to the USA than Cyprus as it is so close to both Russia and the oil rich Middle East.

That is message we have to consider even today. The USA will almost certainly work to keep Turkey as an entire state friendly to them and unless a nato USA friendly alternative to Erdo comes along do not for active support for the demonstrators or for a Turkish spring from those damned Yankees.

Those damned yankees as you say Stud, hold the key and have held the keys to Cyprus since the inception of the ROC, if we Cypriots had realized this fact earlier, there would not have been a Cyprus problem today...lets hope that lessons have been learned and i think they have been..

[GreekIslandGirl]

"No Potassium! I have provided a lot of resources to this forum and links to much of the material I mentioned above over the years."
You are not doing it now, that is my point here. I will not bother researching because you are not able to prove your point by yourself. You are not convincing me that the Brits did help the Cypriots during the invasion.

And I do not have to as I am not your wikipedia or librarian. You could do it yourself.

Knowledge is a personal responsibility!

You are not convincing me that the Brits did help the Cypriots during the invasion.

They didn't. Otherwise there wouldn't have been such an unprecedented, barbaric slaughter of Greek civilians. The Turks would also never have managed to gain so much territory after ceasefire was called if the Brits wanted it any other way. They are now safe in the knowledge they are not the only foreign military base on the island and their position is secure.

Remember the time when the Turkish Air Force was dropping Napalm Bombs and you were running for your life.

Well I would like to point out 2 things:

Turkey was actually planning an invasion. You know who stopped that one? The Good ole USA! Do you have a headache now?

I'm well aware the 1964 attempted invasion by Turkey was halted by the USA. But that doesn't mean 1974 was the invasion in which the Brits were the heroes of the day for GCs, as you try to portray. The Brits may have staged a few face-saving neutrality-looking incidences, but to have acted even once to allow Turkey to do what it did is the litmus-test of their complicity - and there are plenty of incidences that are associated with Britain's actions and inaction which fueled and supported the invasion to become, not just an invasion, but a most barbaric slaughter of Greek civilians.

Now, find some other means to play and stop re-writing Cyprus' history just because you are going through your Britophile phase, please.

[Paphitis]

"No Potassium! I have provided a lot of resources to this forum and links to much of the material I mentioned above over the years."
You are not doing it now, that is my point here. I will not bother researching because you are not able to prove your point by yourself. You are not convincing me that the Brits did help the Cypriots during the invasion.

And I do not have to as I am not your wikipedia or librarian. You could do it yourself.

Knowledge is a personal responsibility!

You are not convincing me that the Brits did help the Cypriots during the invasion.

They didn't. Otherwise there wouldn't have been such an unprecedented, barbaric slaughter of Greek civilians. The Turks would also never have managed to gain so much territory after ceasefire was called if the Brits wanted it any other way. They are now safe in the knowledge they are not the only foreign military base on the island and their position is secure.

Remember the time when the Turkish Air Force was dropping Napalm Bombs and you were running for your life.

Well I would like to point out 2 things:

Turkey was actually planning an invasion. You know who stopped that one? The Good ole USA! Do you have a headache now?

I'm well aware the 1964 attempted invasion by Turkey was halted by the USA. But that doesn't mean 1974 was the invasion in which the Brits were the heroes of the day for GCs, as you try to portray. The Brits may have staged a few face-saving neutrality-looking incidences, but to have acted even once to allow Turkey to do what it did is the litmus-test of their complicity - and there are plenty of incidences that are associated with Britain's actions and inaction which fueled and supported the invasion to become, not just an invasion, but a most barbaric slaughter of Greek civilians.

Now, find some other means to play and stop re-writing Cyprus' history just because you are going through your Britophile phase, please.

Sorry dear, but I have no interest in portraying the Brits as the heroes of the day.

In 1974, the Swiss Cheese holes all lined up. In America, a 'criminal administration' was in power that would stop at nothing. The Cold War was heating up. And Cyprus, was on NATO's side of the iron curtain and getting very close to the Eastern Block.

The Brits did not stage any face saving. If anything, it appeared very obvious to me on their more honourable stance, but unfortunately for us were not powerful enough to do much about it other than try and pull some strings in our favour. They did their best, but the stakes were far too high. Another of the considerations playing on NATO's mind was the possibility of a Soviet Attack against NATO's Southern Flank. This would be a scenario most feared.

They did not allow Turkey to do what it did. The US did. Greece gave them Cyprus on a plate. The wolves moved in.

You can't blame the Brits for anything I am afraid.

You can blame Greece. You can also blame the US.

Let's be realistic as well. Britain couldn't not fight Turkey without tacit US and NATO approval.

What is evident, is that in all of this, there was a far greater picture at play. Our politicians and Makarios were stupid enough to not comprehend the full extent of the fire they were playing with.

Which is why I would like to see Cyprus become a member of NATO one day. I can never entrust Cypriot and Greek politicians with the complete responsibility of truly looking after Cyprus' security and the welfare of the people.

Never again!

[miltiades]

"No Potassium! I have provided a lot of resources to this forum and links to much of the material I mentioned above over the years."
You are not doing it now, that is my point here. I will not bother researching because you are not able to prove your point by yourself. You are not convincing me that the Brits did help the Cypriots during the invasion.

And I do not have to as I am not your wikipedia or librarian. You could do it yourself.

Knowledge is a personal responsibility!

You are not convincing me that the Brits did help the Cypriots during the invasion.

They didn't. Otherwise there wouldn't have been such an unprecedented, barbaric slaughter of Greek civilians. The Turks would also never have managed to gain so much territory after ceasefire was called if the Brits wanted it any other way. They are now safe in the knowledge they are not the only foreign military base on the island and their position is secure.

Remember the time when the Turkish Air Force was dropping Napalm Bombs and you were running for your life.

Well I would like to point out 2 things:

Turkey was actually planning an invasion. You know who stopped that one? The Good ole USA! Do you have a headache now?

I'm well aware the 1964 attempted invasion by Turkey was halted by the USA. But that doesn't mean 1974 was the invasion in which the Brits were the heroes of the day for GCs, as you try to portray. The Brits may have staged a few face-saving neutrality-looking incidences, but to have acted even once to allow Turkey to do what it did is the litmus-test of their complicity - and there are plenty of incidences that are associated with Britain's actions and inaction which fueled and supported the invasion to become, not just an invasion, but a most barbaric slaughter of Greek civilians.

Now, find some other means to play and stop re-writing Cyprus' history just because you are going through your Britophile phase, please.

The British, as the protagonist authors of the Zurich agreements, acted in a most despicable fashion in standing by and allowing the Turkish invasion. Their own parliament on a debate on Cyprus, concluded that Britain should not have remained inactive but instead should have used all means in her power to stop the invasion.
I will not mention the role played by Greece, totally inappropriate since Greece it self was a signatory to the notorious Zurich agreements. Cyprus was taken to the slaughter house by external powers that ought to thoroughly be ashamed of their cowardly act.

[Paphitis]

There was no doubt the Brits were embarrassed about this Miltiades. This to me shows, that their intentions were honourable, but they felt powerless at the time and were even misled by Kissinger about the initial ceasefire.

Britain opted for a policy of a Negotiated outcome to prevent as much as possible the massive catastrophe that had befallen the RoC. This, as debated in the House, was viewed as not enough and that Britain should have acted militarily which was at least considered at the time.

Here is the transcipt:

http://hansard.millbanksystems.com/commons/1957/jul/15/cyprus

[Cap]

This is a brilliant thread. It would be a shame to delete it. Requesting admin not to delete but transfer it to politics section.

[Paphitis]

I would like to kindly remind everyone that a new thread has been started in the Cyprus Problem Section to avoid any hassles with the Admin!

cyprus40703.html#p759868

[GreekIslandGirl]

"No Potassium! I have provided a lot of resources to this forum and links to much of the material I mentioned above over the years."
You are not doing it now, that is my point here. I will not bother researching because you are not able to prove your point by yourself. You are not convincing me that the Brits did help the Cypriots during the invasion.

And I do not have to as I am not your wikipedia or librarian. You could do it yourself.

Knowledge is a personal responsibility!

You are not convincing me that the Brits did help the Cypriots during the invasion.

They didn't. Otherwise there wouldn't have been such an unprecedented, barbaric slaughter of Greek civilians. The Turks would also never have managed to gain so much territory after ceasefire was called if the Brits wanted it any other way. They are now safe in the knowledge they are not the only foreign military base on the island and their position is secure.

Remember the time when the Turkish Air Force was dropping Napalm Bombs and you were running for your life.

Well I would like to point out 2 things:

Turkey was actually planning an invasion. You know who stopped that one? The Good ole USA! Do you have a headache now?

I'm well aware the 1964 attempted invasion by Turkey was halted by the USA. But that doesn't mean 1974 was the invasion in which the Brits were the heroes of the day for GCs, as you try to portray. The Brits may have staged a few face-saving neutrality-looking incidences, but to have acted even once to allow Turkey to do what it did is the litmus-test of their complicity - and there are plenty of incidences that are associated with Britain's actions and inaction which fueled and supported the invasion to become, not just an invasion, but a most barbaric slaughter of Greek civilians.

Now, find some other means to play and stop re-writing Cyprus' history just because you are going through your Britophile phase, please.

The British, as the protagonist authors of the Zurich agreements, acted in a most despicable fashion in standing by and allowing the Turkish invasion. Their own parliament on a debate on Cyprus, concluded that Britain should not have remained inactive but instead should have used all means in her power to stop the invasion.
I will not mention the role played by Greece, totally inappropriate since Greece it self was a signatory to the notorious Zurich agreements. Cyprus was taken to the slaughter house by external powers that ought to thoroughly be ashamed of their cowardly act.

Absolutely, Miltiades.

As for "Greece's" role as guarantors, may I remind you that they were under a military dictatorship at the time and the fascist non-elected leaders were acting on behalf of the USA in deposing Makarios. Internally, we had too many Greek Cypriots who were pro-American, at the time working towards fulfilling America's strategic moves in the Mediterranean. Since the end of the cold-war, we are free-er to ally with both USA and Russia, as economies dictate, without such a scenario again. Commi-brother and Western-favouring sisters need never enter into a coup again in showing loyalties to the left or the right. Our union with Greece in the EU is also a positive step towards avoiding internal factions. All we need now is the EU army to build up and offer some real chance of removing the Turks from the equation and peace can come to our beautiful coastline (once the SBAs have cleaned up their mess and departed too. )