Cyprus-Forum.com

[Main_Source]

Ethnic cleansing is an act of cleansing a place of a particular ethnicity. That is what you are promoting now Zan. You are promoting to cleanse the north of Cyprus of an ethnicity that has been present there for 3,500 years.

What happend in the past is exactly THAT, the past...right now though, the north of Cyprus is being ethnically cleansed of its indegenous peoples.
WE could also argue that GC were the subject of ethnic cleansing back in the sixties, from TC groups like the TMT, who would also create violance in order to prove their ideology of partition. We have both suffered. REAL ethnic cleansing did not occur in Cyprus until 1974, as both communities roughly lost the same amount of lives during the previous decade. The inter-communal violance is NOT 'ethnic cleansing' and you are only banding that term about because it has paints a particular picture which makes you comfertable about promting the islands division.

Right now though, it is people like you and the nationalist Turkish ideology who is promoting ethnic cleansing.

[zan]

Ethnic cleansing is an act of cleansing a place of a particular ethnicity. That is what you are promoting now Zan. You are promoting to cleanse the north of Cyprus of an ethnicity that has been present there for 3,500 years.

What happend in the past is exactly THAT, the past...right now though, the north of Cyprus is being ethnically cleansed of its indegenous peoples.
WE could also argue that GC were the subject of ethnic cleansing back in the sixties, from TC groups like the TMT, who would also create violance in order to prove their ideology of partition. We have both suffered. REAL ethnic cleansing did not occur in Cyprus until 1974, as both communities roughly lost the same amount of lives during the previous decade. The inter-communal violance is NOT 'ethnic cleansing' and you are only banding that term about because it has paints a particular picture which makes you comfertable about promting the islands division.

Right now though, it is people like you and the nationalist Turkish ideology who is promoting ethnic cleansing.

Make up your mind source. In this thread you quote the sixties in another you quote the fifties for the TMT. It seems your history is not only subjective but also variable to suit. For the last time, the TMT were formed in reply to ENOSIS. Find me something on the net, which says differently!

Ethnic cleansing was what the EOKA and its followers did to TCs who were put into camps and enclaves (those that were not shot or imprisoned that is) for many years. Find it on the net and read it, I am tired of giving you history lessons to counteract your fantastical stories.

The past seems to be the past when it does not suit you sir! Other times we are given lectures on, “the barbaric Ottomans”, the unspecified dates of the rise of the TMT and any other date that you pluck from the air and convince no one, not even fellow GCs. To be frank, I think they are embarrassed when you talk utter rubbish. I gave you a whole site dedicated to showing that the Minoans were not Greek and straight away you said “yes they are”! Did you at least read it? It was mind numbingly boring but surely your attention span isn’t that bad? If you were a plumber you would be over the moon.

[Main_Source]

Make up your mind source. In this thread you quote the sixties in another you quote the fifties for the TMT. It seems your history is not only subjective but also variable to suit. For the last time, the TMT were formed in reply to ENOSIS. Find me something on the net, which says differently!

Make up my mind on what!? am I only allowed to bring up one decade per week or something???

and explain how my reference to history is subjective and variable. It seems like your accusing me of issues that you are in denial of.

and your nice ideology about the TMT matches the rest of your ignorance about TC activities in Cyprus at that time.

Ethnic cleansing was what the EOKA and its followers did to TCs who were put into camps and enclaves (those that were not shot or imprisoned that is) for many years. Find it on the net and read it, I am tired of giving you history lessons to counteract your fantastical stories.

are you saying that EOKA PUT TC in camps and endclaves. This is ridiculous lol...id like to see where you got this information!? you are truly a numbskull if you beleive this. Do you want me to quote from the Cyprus Conflict website (the site which suits you only partially...depending how good you are at 'cut and paste') which says the TMT virtually forced TC's into separation!? Are you REALLY this blind Zan!?

The past seems to be the past when it does not suit you sir! Other times we are given lectures on, “the barbaric Ottomans”, the unspecified dates of the rise of the TMT and any other date that you pluck from the air and convince no one, not even fellow GCs. To be frank, I think they are embarrassed when you talk utter rubbish. I gave you a whole site dedicated to showing that the Minoans were not Greek and straight away you said “yes they are”! Did you at least read it? It was mind numbingly boring but surely your attention span isn’t that bad? If you were a plumber you would be over the moon.

Do you want me to specify the rise of the TMT?

On 27 and 28 January 1958, there were two days of serious rioting by thousands of Turkish Cypriots in Nicosia leading to pitched battles with British forces at the end of which seven Turks were dead. This was a clear sign of the rise of a Turkish para-military organization, the TMT (Turk Mudafa Teskilat-- Turkish Defence Organization) and the loss of confidence by the Turkish Cypriots in the durability of Britain's stand against the Greeks.

The cell structure of EOKA was copied by Rauf Denktash, one of the TMT's founders, who went to Turkey to obtain the assistance of the Turkish Government and Army with training and weapons. Also, like EOKA, the TMT was strongly anti-communist and brought intense pressure to bear on Turkish Cypriot members of left-wing unions and clubs. Premises were burnt down, some left- wing Turkish personalities were killed, hundreds of Turkish Cypriot members of the communist-led PEO (Pan-Cyprian Federation of Labour) felt it necessary to leave and were in fact advised to do so for their own safety by their Greek Cypriot comrades. C Demands began to be heard for the establishment of a Turkish army base on Cyprus.

I think that answers your fairy tale about EOKA forcing TC to move into caves and camps.

Also, If the Minoans were not Greek...what race were they from? Do you know about the history of Greeks and where they come from? Like the Ionians, the Macedonians, the Spartans, etc??? Am I supposed to take seriously someone who believes the crap from ATCANEWS.org!? really!? lol

[Main_Source]

Make up your mind source. In this thread you quote the sixties in another you quote the fifties for the TMT. It seems your history is not only subjective but also variable to suit. For the last time, the TMT were formed in reply to ENOSIS. Find me something on the net, which says differently!

Make up my mind on what!? am I only allowed to bring up one decade per week or something???

and explain how my reference to history is subjective and variable. It seems like your accusing me of issues that you are in denial of.

and your nice ideology about the TMT matches the rest of your ignorance about TC activities in Cyprus at that time.

Ethnic cleansing was what the EOKA and its followers did to TCs who were put into camps and enclaves (those that were not shot or imprisoned that is) for many years. Find it on the net and read it, I am tired of giving you history lessons to counteract your fantastical stories.

are you saying that EOKA PUT TC in camps and endclaves. This is ridiculous lol...id like to see where you got this information!? you are truly a numbskull if you beleive this. Do you want me to quote from the Cyprus Conflict website (the site which suits you only partially...depending how good you are at 'cut and paste') which says the TMT virtually forced TC's into separation!? Are you REALLY this blind Zan!?

The past seems to be the past when it does not suit you sir! Other times we are given lectures on, “the barbaric Ottomans”, the unspecified dates of the rise of the TMT and any other date that you pluck from the air and convince no one, not even fellow GCs. To be frank, I think they are embarrassed when you talk utter rubbish. I gave you a whole site dedicated to showing that the Minoans were not Greek and straight away you said “yes they are”! Did you at least read it? It was mind numbingly boring but surely your attention span isn’t that bad? If you were a plumber you would be over the moon.

Do you want me to specify the rise of the TMT?

On 27 and 28 January 1958, there were two days of serious rioting by thousands of Turkish Cypriots in Nicosia leading to pitched battles with British forces at the end of which seven Turks were dead. This was a clear sign of the rise of a Turkish para-military organization, the TMT (Turk Mudafa Teskilat-- Turkish Defence Organization) and the loss of confidence by the Turkish Cypriots in the durability of Britain's stand against the Greeks.

The cell structure of EOKA was copied by Rauf Denktash, one of the TMT's founders, who went to Turkey to obtain the assistance of the Turkish Government and Army with training and weapons. Also, like EOKA, the TMT was strongly anti-communist and brought intense pressure to bear on Turkish Cypriot members of left-wing unions and clubs. Premises were burnt down, some left- wing Turkish personalities were killed, hundreds of Turkish Cypriot members of the communist-led PEO (Pan-Cyprian Federation of Labour) felt it necessary to leave and were in fact advised to do so for their own safety by their Greek Cypriot comrades. C Demands began to be heard for the establishment of a Turkish army base on Cyprus.

I think that answers your fairy tale about EOKA forcing TC to move into caves and camps.

Also, If the Minoans were not Greek...what race were they from? Do you know about the history of Greeks and where they come from? Like the Ionians, the Macedonians, the Spartans, etc??? Am I supposed to take seriously someone who believes the crap from ATCANEWS.org!? really!? lol

[BirKibrisli]

Come on Zan,Source...Give it a brake.

We all know that both EOKA and TMT were terrorist organisations by the modern definition.(an organisation which carries out attacks on the property or lives of civilians to advance a political cause)
They were also freedom fighters to those who believed in their cause.
Do me a favour you two.
Zan, can you come up with a few negative statements about the TMT and their activities?
Source, can you do the same about the EOKA?

And while you are at it,try to think of anything that your side has done wrongly to contribute to the present sad situation?
Do it in memory of Ozker Ozgur,that great Cypriot patriot who has just died.He will never see his dream of reunification come true.And while Rome burns,we are slanging at each other.Give it a break.

[Main_Source]

of course I can come out with some negatives about EOKA...but when you say EOKA...do u mean the original EOKA or EOKA B.

To me, the whole cause of EOKA B was more or less criminal and discerdited the original struggle of the EOKA movement in the 50's. I also have concerns about general Grivas. To me he seemed manipulate the struggle of Greek Cypriots for some of his own maybe warped ideologies.
Although he may have been the figure head for EOKA, to say the whole actions of the movement just reflects his ideas is not true.

As for the original EOKA movement on the whole, I have no problem with it. Why the hell should the indegenous people of an island by subjected to foreign rule and have their rights subpressed? Why should we as a people be ruled for so long by foreign countries!? Why cant we make our own decision on our destiny!? what about all the other movements around the world that fought for their own rights and destiny's? Are they terrorists??
Would you have called the Greek independance struggle a form of terrorism? Did you expect Greeks to sit around and wait for the Ottoman Empire to give them their own freedom? Or how about Nelson Mandela? Is he a terrorist?

Like the word 'ethnic cleansing'...'terrorist' is another word being banded about without actually looking at its meaning and if the label is just.

[bg_turk]

EOKA A, EOKA B, EOKA C, ... all were terrorist organizations. What freedom did they lack in the first place, that they were fighting for? Cypriots had all the civil rights under brittish rule.

Should I also start a "freedom fight" in Bulgaria because I am not in "control" of my destiny?

Clearly EOKA was a terrorist organization, which was driven by the political ideology of union with greece, and its actions were to the detriment of Cyprus and its people. It caused the death of more Greek Cypriot civilians than the total of British killed

[Agios Amvrosios]

Cypriots had all the civil rights under brittish rule.

are you nuts?

hangings without trial,no voting rights,curfews and over taxation we are not talking about a little piece of westminster democracy in the middle of the mediterranean.

[Alexis]

Clearly EOKA was a terrorist organization, which was driven by the political ideology of union with greece, and its actions were to the detriment of Cyprus and its people. It caused the death of more Greek Cypriot civilians than the total of British killed

Why would a terrorist organisation enjoy such widespread support amongst the general population?
Some of EOKAs support was clearly due to intimidation (they were known to not tolerate those who sympathised with the British) but the overwhelming majority of the GC population supported them and it can't all have been intimidation, after all there were probably less than 500 EOKA operatives (i.e. actual fighters) in the whole of Cyprus.

Anyway, you may have heard the song lyrics:

"One man's freedom fighter is another man's terrorist"

[Main_Source]

EOKA A, EOKA B, EOKA C, ... all were terrorist organizations. What freedom did they lack in the first place, that they were fighting for? Cypriots had all the civil rights under brittish rule.

Should I also start a "freedom fight" in Bulgaria because I am not in "control" of my destiny?

Clearly EOKA was a terrorist organization, which was driven by the political ideology of union with greece, and its actions were to the detriment of Cyprus and its people. It caused the death of more Greek Cypriot civilians than the total of British killed

are you nuts?

hangings without trial,no voting rights,curfews and over taxation we are not talking about a little piece of westminster democracy in the middle of the mediterranean.

Escuse BG Turk...he makes assumptions based on his political ideologies...then he decides to research of these assumptions are true or not.