Cyprus-Forum.com

[Viewpoint]

İ am well aware you do not want to accept your share of the blame for the past but we all know deep down that enosis resulted in division and total mistrust between the two sides.

In 1974 enosis was not on the agenda for the majority of Greek Cypriots and had ceased to be a practical objective by the mid/late 60s.

The coup in '74 was instigated by Greece's fascist junta and its objective was the removal of the government of Cyprus which had become a thorn in its side and to partition the island between Greece and Turkey. Their goal was not to unite the island with Greece but to collude with Turkey to dismember the island and divide it between them.

Your goal is partition VP - exactly the same goal as the fascists in 1974 you claim to criticise. Like them, you oppose the very idea of a united democratic Cyprus. You have more in common with the fascists behind the coup than you do with the majority of Cypriots.

You really need to understand that taksim was in response to enosis, the more the gcs pushed for union with Greece the more the tcs countered with taksim, why is that so difficult to understand? The arrow of enosis had left the bow there was no going back or stopping each side fighting for what they believed, lets agree with you for just one second and accept that the gcs saw the light understanding that enosis was a stupid idea and that they no longer want enosis do you think that the tcs should just stop wanting taksim and their own state away from gcs? It just dont work that way especially when you have the gc side trying to take away tcs rights and take control over the whole island forcing them into minority status as is also the case today....which part of we will never allow you to do this dont you understand?

[Demonax]

lets agree with you for just one second and accept that the gcs saw the light understanding that enosis was a stupid idea and that they no longer want enosis do you think that the tcs should just stop wanting taksim and their own state away from gcs? It just dont work that way especially when you have the gc side trying to take away tcs rights and take control over the whole island forcing them into minority status as is also the case today....which part of we will never allow you to do this dont you understand?

As you say, the TCs at Ankara's instigation were pursuing a self-segregationist agenda which amounted to an armed insurgency against the majority population. Faced with a belligerent minority you cannot blame the GCs for reacting harshly.

In reality the enosis genie could've been contained if the TCs were committed to a fully democratic independent Cyprus. Instead TCs were only interested in partition because the GCs wouldn't allow them perpetual veto rights - veto rights which would've been exercised against the will of the democratic majority.

[Demonax]

Back on topic:

TCs split on return of Varosha it seems.

Famagusta Initiative sends letter to Fule supporting the return of occupied fenced Varosha to its legal owners

Turkish Cypriot daily Kibris newspaper (16.07.13) reports that the so-called Famagusta Initiative has sent a letter to Stefan Fule, EU Commissioner Responsible for the Enlargement, expressing its support to the return of the occupied fenced city of Varosha to its legal owners. The Initiative said it believed to the return Varosha to its legal owners according to UN Security Council's Resolution No 550. In parallel to this it expressed support to the restoration and protection of all historic and cultural heritage of the within the walls area in Famagusta by foreign experts.

The Initiative said it supported the proposal of the EU which has recently come onto the agenda as regards the issue of Varosha and the illegal Tymvou airport. The initiative noted also that it "encouraged" the opening of the Famagusta Port under the control of the EU.

The spokesman of the initiative, Mustafa Ongun informed Fule about the organization and called for cooperation on the EU Commissioner's "innovative proposal" on the Cyprus problem. He said that the Famagusta Initiative was established in 2010 by some citizens with the aim of contributing to the peace process in Cyprus.

http://www.hri.org/news/cyprus/tcpr/201 ... .tcpr.html

[Viewpoint]

lets agree with you for just one second and accept that the gcs saw the light understanding that enosis was a stupid idea and that they no longer want enosis do you think that the tcs should just stop wanting taksim and their own state away from gcs? It just dont work that way especially when you have the gc side trying to take away tcs rights and take control over the whole island forcing them into minority status as is also the case today....which part of we will never allow you to do this dont you understand?

As you say, the TCs at Ankara's instigation were pursuing a self-segregationist agenda which amounted to an armed insurgency against the majority population. Faced with a belligerent minority you cannot blame the GCs for reacting harshly.

In reality the enosis genie could've been contained if the TCs were committed to a fully democratic independent Cyprus. Instead TCs were only interested in partition because the GCs wouldn't allow them perpetual veto rights - veto rights which would've been exercised against the will of the democratic majority.

Are you purposely avoiding blame? do you understand that taksim would never have been if enosis had not have been the dream of gcs?

Did you not sign the 1960 agreements? which is the only binding international agreement we have between the 2 sides......veto was put there for reason and a result of your past actions....who wants to live with a majority that wants to reduce you down to minority rights where democracy can easily be manipulated to the benefit of specific members of a population namely the GCs. We are not worried about the knife of democracy but the surgeon who will use it.

[Demonax]

Are you purposely avoiding blame? do you understand that taksim would never have been if enosis had not have been the dream of gcs?

Did you not sign the 1960 agreements? which is the only binding international agreement we have between the 2 sides......veto was put there for reason and a result of your past actions....who wants to live with a majority that wants to reduce you down to minority rights where democracy can easily be manipulated to the benefit of specific members of a population namely the GCs. We are not worried about the knife of democracy but the surgeon who will use it.

Too late for all this, VP. You fucked up and now have no veto, no say and limited rights in the Republic. While what remains of the TC community is being assimilated into the colonists in the north. You only have yourselves to blame. So stop crying about it. If you'd chosen the democratic path, equal rights for all, instead of insisting on quotas, privileges and vetoes, you might not be in the predicament you find yourselves in now.

[repulsewarrior]

splitting the island in two is an idea older than ENOSIS, it was ideas like these which provoked a reaction, where island dwellers expressed their own desire.

...but, as we know, Enosis did happen, because it is a good idea, hence the membership into the EU, but, not as "Greeks", as Europeans.

...and i may say that there is a Cypriot path to all this, you must try it, vp. join me, or someone like Kikapu, because if you love Cyprus you can grasp the opportunity it represents to us as Individuals, not "Turks", not "Greeks"; how great is that. i will say it again, ask, "where (is)are the Cypriot Constituencies?" and if we are Bicommunal, where is the State?

...enosis is a good idea now.

[Viewpoint]

Are you purposely avoiding blame? do you understand that taksim would never have been if enosis had not have been the dream of gcs?

Did you not sign the 1960 agreements? which is the only binding international agreement we have between the 2 sides......veto was put there for reason and a result of your past actions....who wants to live with a majority that wants to reduce you down to minority rights where democracy can easily be manipulated to the benefit of specific members of a population namely the GCs. We are not worried about the knife of democracy but the surgeon who will use it.

Too late for all this, VP. You fucked up and now have no veto, no say and limited rights in the Republic. While what remains of the TC community is being assimilated into the colonists in the north. You only have yourselves to blame. So stop crying about it. If you'd chosen the democratic path, equal rights for all, instead of insisting on quotas, privileges and vetoes, you might not be in the predicament you find yourselves in now.

This is where you go wrong and have to understand that the above attitude you do not win over any tc support in fact the opposite you alienate and further harden the untrusting views of the tcs. Admit to your own wrongs enosis and those that strived for it messed things up, the current situation eas not the cause but the end result of your own actions. İts attitude like your that reconfirm that assimilation with Turkey is far better than surrendering to your demands.

[Viewpoint]

splitting the island in two is an idea older than ENOSIS, it was ideas like these which provoked a reaction, where island dwellers expressed their own desire.

...but, as we know, Enosis did happen, because it is a good idea, hence the membership into the EU, but, not as "Greeks", as Europeans.

...and i may say that there is a Cypriot path to all this, you must try it, vp. join me, or someone like Kikapu, because if you love Cyprus you can grasp the opportunity it represents to us as Individuals, not "Turks", not "Greeks"; how great is that. i will say it again, ask, "where (is)are the Cypriot Constituencies?" and if we are Bicommunal, where is the State?

...enosis is a good idea now.

enosis you strived for was not union within the eu but a gifting of Cyprus to Greece so that Cyprus just becomes another Greek island that is not a good enosis if so then union with Turkey is also a good idea what do you think?

[Demonax]

This is where you go wrong and have to understand that the above attitude you do not win over any tc support in fact the opposite you alienate and further harden the untrusting views of the tcs. Admit to your own wrongs enosis and those that strived for it messed things up, the current situation eas not the cause but the end result of your own actions. İts attitude like your that reconfirm that assimilation with Turkey is far better than surrendering to your demands.

Enosis was a legitimate response in the 1950s to both Turkish and British colonial designs on the island. When the Turkish Cypriot leadership threw in their lot with Turkey's long-held policy of taksim and partition they effectively declared the 1960 Constitution defunct and subsequently lost all rights and privileges under the ROC. You can't have it both ways.

If you think TCs still have rights and vetoes in the ROC please tell us where those rights are now? Did the TCs have any say on the ROC's entry into the EU? Do the TCs have any say over the development of the ROC's gas reserves?

Negotiations have been about how to re-integrate TCs back into the ROC. But you are kidding yourselves if you think we will go back to the past.

EU accession has replaced the Cyprus constitution, or haven't you noticed?

[Viewpoint]

So you no longer have a constitution do you really understand what you are saying without a constitution the "roc" is null and void. Our rights cannot be erased unilaterally thats why we are a party to any future solution with our weight being equal to yours at 50% without which you cannot unite the island. İsnt it time you realized that you are not alone on this island and that you cannot steam roll over us to get what you want, you have been unsucessful for 39 years but you still insist on the same stupid politics to take away our rights.