Cyprus-Forum.com

[Viewpoint]

Turkishhhhh Coffeeeee mmmmmmm.

Drink it in Constantinople with a side serving of Turkishhhhh tear gas. mmmmmmmmmmm !

Girne is just fine....

[Maximus]

I should know better really. Its pointless debating against your ignorance and sheer stupidity viewpoint.

You just drag me way down to your level and keep beating me with experience.

[Lordo]

I should know better really. Its pointless debating against your ignorance and sheer stupidity viewpoint.

You just drag me way down to your level and keep beating me with experience.

sure you are the same level as shitapu in this forum. i can smell it from here.

[kurupetos]

I should know better really. Its pointless debating against your ignorance and sheer stupidity viewpoint.

You just drag me way down to your level and keep beating me with experience.

sure you are the same level as shitapu in this forum. i can smell it from here.

No way. You cannot even smell your own dirty underwear.

[Lordo]

i can smell you from ere you swine. do yourself a favour and have a wash this christmas assuming you are a christian swine.

[Viewpoint]

I should know better really. Its pointless debating against your ignorance and sheer stupidity viewpoint.

You just drag me way down to your level and keep beating me with experience.

You are a typical GC when corner you off on one of your trips.....nothing to say then dont say anything at all because my arguements just force you to think outside of the GC brain washing directives.

[Kikapu]

Firstly thank you for proving me right in my belief that democracy is made up of different shades of gray that can easily be manipulated to the detrement of parts of it population and even the country as a whole eg Greece, Cyprus, Spain and now Turkey, thats why I strongly believe in checks and balances to guarantee all parties know full well their bounderies not leaving anything to chance.

As for Turkey breaking up and their EU aspirations I have many times aired my views on this matter so I will not repeat them.

Division was the answer to enosis without enosis taksim would never have been born, so when you consider the GCs were still trying to attain enosis after the 1960 agreements it was only natural for taskim to rear its head.

The GCs made a grave mistake by not working for a united Cyprus encouraging Cypriotism and one nation mentality, which included TCs rather than allienating them which they even pratice today, the two sides are no closer today than they were 50 years that speak volumes and tell us that nothing has really changed.

I support the minority in Turkey, if they want to get rid of Erdoğan then he should go, but of course you support Erdoğan to stay because in your "democratic" mind he got more than 50% of the votes, now do you understand what I have been arguing all along? the minority cannot be ignored or as you see the backlash is what happened in 1974 Cyprus and is now happening in 2013 Turkey.

I don't know where you got the impression that I want Erdogan to stay as a leader of Turkey as a one man Sultan ruler, regardless of him being elected democratically by the majority.

You are missing the whole point with Erdogan. The minority do not want to get rid of Erdogan just because he was elected democratically by the majority. They want to get rid of Erdogan because he doesn't want to rule democratically but by rather as a one man rule Sultan. I hope you can see the difference.

Let me repeat again. Democracy did not exist in Cyprus in 1960. Ethnic groups in a country cannot work together as one society when one has more rights at the expense of the other. If all the citizens are not treated equally, then you are going to have problems, hence the reasons of the problems in Cyprus going back as far as 1960, because the 1960 constitution did not treat all citizens of Cyprus as equals. It was more like the "Animal Farm" story, where some animals were more equal than others, even though all the animals were meant to be all equals. Without true Democracy & Human Rights, a country cannot achieve equality to all it's citizens, because you will not have Checks & balances built in as you would in a True Democracy to prevent abuses by those with power, may they be the majority or the minority who are in power. Your definition of "Checks & Balances" is designed to abuse Democratic and Human Rights of others, so you are no different than Erdogan, because it is not applied Democratically.

So basically we have arrived at the checks and balances which I have been stating all along are the key to a solution, thses need to be incorporated in what you label as a "true democracy" which I do not trust as we can see from Greece Spain and South Cyprus all EU members can be manipulated to the detrement of a country and its people be they majority or minority. Your leave it to chance label it true democracy viewpoint dont cut it with me, I need to see for real what those checks and balances are and how they will effect and protect me.

We have established that the 1960 conistitution did not work or evolve because both sides had other aspirations namely enosis evoking taksim, so lets not even go there.

The future is what we should look at and how the checks and balances that go towards building a real true democracy can be put in place that will address the concerns of both sides, that will not allow one side to dominate the other, building trust and understanding towards a BBF with political equality and as one internaitonal country.

I accept most of your above points as being valid and reasonable. The answer to your question about the Checks & Balances in protecting the rights of everyone as equal citizens lies in the creation of a Constitution which will afford these protections and rights to everyone equally, so basically, the important task of any unity settlement in Cyprus comes down to making a constitution that will protect everyone equally with Checks & Balances built in place as the case is in any True Democracy.

Afters years of discussion we appear to have found some common ground, we agree that there has to be checkes and balances to ensure stability and understanding of the "rules" and that stepping outside of the checks and balances will have negative results for that community. Now its these checks and balances we have been unable to agree as what you see as a plus for one community is considered a negative for the other, mistrust and lack of understanding perpetuate a need to ask for measures that hopefully will overtime become redundent but intially are vital to bring both sides to an agreement. Its these "extra" measures which both sides have to show a flexible attiude towards to date this has been totally missing on both sides. I also believe that and you will automatically object is that the GCs desire for a solution is questionable they have near enough everything they want all thats missing is some land which they can function without and this mentality is a very big obstacle when trying to find a solution.

Sorry for the delay getting back to you on this topic, but I had to step out for awhile.

Listen VP, I'm willing to have an honest debate about you, but you have already started moving the "goalposts" from your position I found to be reasonable. If you want an honest, insult and ridicule free dabate, then you need to answer my questions put to you and not ignore them when you find that your answers may not serve your purpose at all, then you shall have one. I too will answer al your questions.

I'll get back to you soon.

[Lordo]

you are going to have a devbate about vp. who the bloody hell do you think you are.

[Kikapu]

you are going to have a devbate about vp. who the bloody hell do you think you are.

Oops. I meant to say to have a debate "with you", to VP!

Now you can leave the room, Lordo!

[Lordo]

thanks for warning me you are about to let one go, my pleasure, i am out of this room, enjoy but take your time in case you follow through.

dont worry xredjehalo does this regularly so he keeps a few vragalluis just in case. i am sure he can lend you one.