Cyprus-Forum.com

[Kikapu]

so shitapu thinks erdogan will stay and akp will lose the next election. keep your day job my friend. akp leadership cant be as stupid as you and your arselickers. so much browntounging going on here.

I don't know what you are talking about.

Thank you for proving once again as to why you are an illiterate.

[Viewpoint]

Erdoğan was elected by over 50% of the Turkish electorate, do you support the protesters although they are the minoirty? if you do then you are a fucking hypocrite like your other bum chums.

You are of course confusing democratically elected leader such as Erdogan, to that same leader to rule the whole country as a dictator, just because he was elected by the majority. Hitler too was elected democratically by the majority, so what's your point? Did you agree in the way Hitler ruled also? Erdogan wasn't elected to be a king and to rule by decree. That's not democracy. In fact, in any true democratic country, Erdogan would have been impeached by now and thrown out of office. Democracy is not only about one man one vote. That's just the first step. Erdogan, nor you as it appears, has learned the rest of the "pillars of democracy". I would suggest you get the book on "Democracy 101 for Idiots" to read. Whether you will comprehend what you read is another matter however.

Now you have proven to everyone yet again what an outright idiot you really are, if as you have stated above democracy can be manipulated and used to the advantage of a dictator then Im glad to inform you that you have just fallen into your own trap. Democracy is not black and white there are so many variables that can easily be manipulated to the detrement of certain minorities and to the benefit of people like Hitler Makarios or even Erdoğan. So you agree that the minority in Turkey those that did not vote for Erdoğan have the right to protest and do everything within their power to oppose such "dictators" who could demand that a country be given to another one without the support of all of its people? Now I know you are slow on the uptake but even you should be able to understand where this is going and how it can easily be compared to the 1960s in Cyprus, it will also help you get a grasp on how the GCs oppressed and dominated the TCs who fought back with everything they could resulting in possibly the best and only solution we can ever achieve, division.

[Maximus]

Your completely deluded and brainwashed VP to put Makarios alongside Hitler and Erdogan.

You keep showing us what a dense and backwards ignorant fool you are. More often that not, I think you are not even worth communicating or bothering with because you are so far gone with your propaganda very little if anything is salvageable.

[Kikapu]

Erdoğan was elected by over 50% of the Turkish electorate, do you support the protesters although they are the minoirty? if you do then you are a fucking hypocrite like your other bum chums.

You are of course confusing democratically elected leader such as Erdogan, to that same leader to rule the whole country as a dictator, just because he was elected by the majority. Hitler too was elected democratically by the majority, so what's your point? Did you agree in the way Hitler ruled also? Erdogan wasn't elected to be a king and to rule by decree. That's not democracy. In fact, in any true democratic country, Erdogan would have been impeached by now and thrown out of office. Democracy is not only about one man one vote. That's just the first step. Erdogan, nor you as it appears, has learned the rest of the "pillars of democracy". I would suggest you get the book on "Democracy 101 for Idiots" to read. Whether you will comprehend what you read is another matter however.

Now you have proven to everyone yet again what an outright idiot you really are, if as you have stated above democracy can be manipulated and used to the advantage of a dictator then Im glad to inform you that you have just fallen into your own trap. Democracy is not black and white there are so many variables that can easily be manipulated to the detrement of certain minorities and to the benefit of people like Hitler Makarios or even Erdoğan. So you agree that the minority in Turkey those that did not vote for Erdoğan have the right to protest and do everything within their power to oppose such "dictators" who could demand that a country be given to another one without the support of all of its people? Now I know you are slow on the uptake but even you should be able to understand where this is going and how it can easily be compared to the 1960s in Cyprus, it will also help you get a grasp on how the GCs oppressed and dominated the TCs who fought back with everything they could resulting in possibly the best and only solution we can ever achieve, division.

So what are you saying, that Turkey should now break up to about 50 pieces, since there are at least that many ethnic groups in Turkey all forced to live under the label of "Turks"?

For starters, there never was a Democracy in Cyprus in 1960, thanks to the 1960 constitution, so lets put that part of your post to one side.

Division in Cyprus was predetermined way before the 1959 agreements were made, hence the undemocratic constitution imposed on Cypriots in 1960.

Democracy, apart from one man one vote and majority rule, also needs Checks & Balances for the protection, interests and voices of the minority to be heard, all done in a democratic way. Even the 50% who voted for Erdogan did not vote for him to become a dictator. Why do you think Erdogan or you want any Checks & Balances done in a Democratic way, it's because you lot do not believe in Democracy, but rather believe in Fascism. Lets face it, Muslim countries in general cannot become truly a Democratic countries. Fascism is more the norm for them than Democracy is. Turkey's only chance in ever becoming a truly a Democratic country, is to be come an EU member. It appears that's what the other 50% of Turkey's population want, or else they would not be rioting and would accept Fascism imposed on them by Erdogan.

[Lordo]

boy oh boy oh boy. you love to work your fanatic gc friends till they froth in the mouth like a rabied dog. do you not follow any of the news in terkey. if akp wins again there is a chance country will split into two. now will that serve american interests, no. so no chance.

when it comes to one man one vote, of course we will have it. we will have it in the north and gcs will have it in the south. unifed cyprus in one zone with one man one vote making tcs a minority, in your dreams dear boy. you have a long time to wait for it. berhaps 5 billion years, that should do it.

the contract has been signed in 77, they cannot get out of it.

[Viewpoint]

Firstly thank you for proving me right in my belief that democracy is made up of different shades of gray that can easily be manipulated to the detrement of parts of it population and even the country as a whole eg Greece, Cyprus, Spain and now Turkey, thats why I strongly believe in checks and balances to guarantee all parties know full well their bounderies not leaving anything to chance.

As for Turkey breaking up and their EU aspirations I have many times aired my views on this matter so I will not repeat them.

Division was the answer to enosis without enosis taksim would never have been born, so when you consider the GCs were still trying to attain enosis after the 1960 agreements it was only natural for taskim to rear its head.

The GCs made a grave mistake by not working for a united Cyprus encouraging Cypriotism and one nation mentality, which included TCs rather than allienating them which they even pratice today, the two sides are no closer today than they were 50 years that speak volumes and tell us that nothing has really changed.

I support the minority in Turkey, if they want to get rid of Erdoğan then he should go, but of course you support Erdoğan to stay because in your "democratic" mind he got more than 50% of the votes, now do you understand what I have been arguing all along? the minority cannot be ignored or as you see the backlash is what happened in 1974 Cyprus and is now happening in 2013 Turkey.

[Kikapu]

Firstly thank you for proving me right in my belief that democracy is made up of different shades of gray that can easily be manipulated to the detrement of parts of it population and even the country as a whole eg Greece, Cyprus, Spain and now Turkey, thats why I strongly believe in checks and balances to guarantee all parties know full well their bounderies not leaving anything to chance.

As for Turkey breaking up and their EU aspirations I have many times aired my views on this matter so I will not repeat them.

Division was the answer to enosis without enosis taksim would never have been born, so when you consider the GCs were still trying to attain enosis after the 1960 agreements it was only natural for taskim to rear its head.

The GCs made a grave mistake by not working for a united Cyprus encouraging Cypriotism and one nation mentality, which included TCs rather than allienating them which they even pratice today, the two sides are no closer today than they were 50 years that speak volumes and tell us that nothing has really changed.

I support the minority in Turkey, if they want to get rid of Erdoğan then he should go, but of course you support Erdoğan to stay because in your "democratic" mind he got more than 50% of the votes, now do you understand what I have been arguing all along? the minority cannot be ignored or as you see the backlash is what happened in 1974 Cyprus and is now happening in 2013 Turkey.

I don't know where you got the impression that I want Erdogan to stay as a leader of Turkey as a one man Sultan ruler, regardless of him being elected democratically by the majority.

You are missing the whole point with Erdogan. The minority do not want to get rid of Erdogan just because he was elected democratically by the majority. They want to get rid of Erdogan because he doesn't want to rule democratically but by rather as a one man rule Sultan. I hope you can see the difference.

Let me repeat again. Democracy did not exist in Cyprus in 1960. Ethnic groups in a country cannot work together as one society when one has more rights at the expense of the other. If all the citizens are not treated equally, then you are going to have problems, hence the reasons of the problems in Cyprus going back as far as 1960, because the 1960 constitution did not treat all citizens of Cyprus as equals. It was more like the "Animal Farm" story, where some animals were more equal than others, even though all the animals were meant to be all equals. Without true Democracy & Human Rights, a country cannot achieve equality to all it's citizens, because you will not have Checks & balances built in as you would in a True Democracy to prevent abuses by those with power, may they be the majority or the minority who are in power. Your definition of "Checks & Balances" is designed to abuse Democratic and Human Rights of others, so you are no different than Erdogan, because it is not applied Democratically.

[Viewpoint]

Firstly thank you for proving me right in my belief that democracy is made up of different shades of gray that can easily be manipulated to the detrement of parts of it population and even the country as a whole eg Greece, Cyprus, Spain and now Turkey, thats why I strongly believe in checks and balances to guarantee all parties know full well their bounderies not leaving anything to chance.

As for Turkey breaking up and their EU aspirations I have many times aired my views on this matter so I will not repeat them.

Division was the answer to enosis without enosis taksim would never have been born, so when you consider the GCs were still trying to attain enosis after the 1960 agreements it was only natural for taskim to rear its head.

The GCs made a grave mistake by not working for a united Cyprus encouraging Cypriotism and one nation mentality, which included TCs rather than allienating them which they even pratice today, the two sides are no closer today than they were 50 years that speak volumes and tell us that nothing has really changed.

I support the minority in Turkey, if they want to get rid of Erdoğan then he should go, but of course you support Erdoğan to stay because in your "democratic" mind he got more than 50% of the votes, now do you understand what I have been arguing all along? the minority cannot be ignored or as you see the backlash is what happened in 1974 Cyprus and is now happening in 2013 Turkey.

I don't know where you got the impression that I want Erdogan to stay as a leader of Turkey as a one man Sultan ruler, regardless of him being elected democratically by the majority.

You are missing the whole point with Erdogan. The minority do not want to get rid of Erdogan just because he was elected democratically by the majority. They want to get rid of Erdogan because he doesn't want to rule democratically but by rather as a one man rule Sultan. I hope you can see the difference.

Let me repeat again. Democracy did not exist in Cyprus in 1960. Ethnic groups in a country cannot work together as one society when one has more rights at the expense of the other. If all the citizens are not treated equally, then you are going to have problems, hence the reasons of the problems in Cyprus going back as far as 1960, because the 1960 constitution did not treat all citizens of Cyprus as equals. It was more like the "Animal Farm" story, where some animals were more equal than others, even though all the animals were meant to be all equals. Without true Democracy & Human Rights, a country cannot achieve equality to all it's citizens, because you will not have Checks & balances built in as you would in a True Democracy to prevent abuses by those with power, may they be the majority or the minority who are in power. Your definition of "Checks & Balances" is designed to abuse Democratic and Human Rights of others, so you are no different than Erdogan, because it is not applied Democratically.

So basically we have arrived at the checks and balances which I have been stating all along are the key to a solution, thses need to be incorporated in what you label as a "true democracy" which I do not trust as we can see from Greece Spain and South Cyprus all EU members can be manipulated to the detrement of a country and its people be they majority or minority. Your leave it to chance label it true democracy viewpoint dont cut it with me, I need to see for real what those checks and balances are and how they will effect and protect me.

We have established that the 1960 conistitution did not work or evolve because both sides had other aspirations namely enosis evoking taksim, so lets not even go there.

The future is what we should look at and how the checks and balances that go towards building a real true democracy can be put in place that will address the concerns of both sides, that will not allow one side to dominate the other, building trust and understanding towards a BBF with political equality and as one internaitonal country.

[Kikapu]

Firstly thank you for proving me right in my belief that democracy is made up of different shades of gray that can easily be manipulated to the detrement of parts of it population and even the country as a whole eg Greece, Cyprus, Spain and now Turkey, thats why I strongly believe in checks and balances to guarantee all parties know full well their bounderies not leaving anything to chance.

As for Turkey breaking up and their EU aspirations I have many times aired my views on this matter so I will not repeat them.

Division was the answer to enosis without enosis taksim would never have been born, so when you consider the GCs were still trying to attain enosis after the 1960 agreements it was only natural for taskim to rear its head.

The GCs made a grave mistake by not working for a united Cyprus encouraging Cypriotism and one nation mentality, which included TCs rather than allienating them which they even pratice today, the two sides are no closer today than they were 50 years that speak volumes and tell us that nothing has really changed.

I support the minority in Turkey, if they want to get rid of Erdoğan then he should go, but of course you support Erdoğan to stay because in your "democratic" mind he got more than 50% of the votes, now do you understand what I have been arguing all along? the minority cannot be ignored or as you see the backlash is what happened in 1974 Cyprus and is now happening in 2013 Turkey.

I don't know where you got the impression that I want Erdogan to stay as a leader of Turkey as a one man Sultan ruler, regardless of him being elected democratically by the majority.

You are missing the whole point with Erdogan. The minority do not want to get rid of Erdogan just because he was elected democratically by the majority. They want to get rid of Erdogan because he doesn't want to rule democratically but by rather as a one man rule Sultan. I hope you can see the difference.

Let me repeat again. Democracy did not exist in Cyprus in 1960. Ethnic groups in a country cannot work together as one society when one has more rights at the expense of the other. If all the citizens are not treated equally, then you are going to have problems, hence the reasons of the problems in Cyprus going back as far as 1960, because the 1960 constitution did not treat all citizens of Cyprus as equals. It was more like the "Animal Farm" story, where some animals were more equal than others, even though all the animals were meant to be all equals. Without true Democracy & Human Rights, a country cannot achieve equality to all it's citizens, because you will not have Checks & balances built in as you would in a True Democracy to prevent abuses by those with power, may they be the majority or the minority who are in power. Your definition of "Checks & Balances" is designed to abuse Democratic and Human Rights of others, so you are no different than Erdogan, because it is not applied Democratically.

So basically we have arrived at the checks and balances which I have been stating all along are the key to a solution, thses need to be incorporated in what you label as a "true democracy" which I do not trust as we can see from Greece Spain and South Cyprus all EU members can be manipulated to the detrement of a country and its people be they majority or minority. Your leave it to chance label it true democracy viewpoint dont cut it with me, I need to see for real what those checks and balances are and how they will effect and protect me.

We have established that the 1960 conistitution did not work or evolve because both sides had other aspirations namely enosis evoking taksim, so lets not even go there.

The future is what we should look at and how the checks and balances that go towards building a real true democracy can be put in place that will address the concerns of both sides, that will not allow one side to dominate the other, building trust and understanding towards a BBF with political equality and as one internaitonal country.

I accept most of your above points as being valid and reasonable. The answer to your question about the Checks & Balances in protecting the rights of everyone as equal citizens lies in the creation of a Constitution which will afford these protections and rights to everyone equally, so basically, the important task of any unity settlement in Cyprus comes down to making a constitution that will protect everyone equally with Checks & Balances built in place as the case is in any True Democracy.

[Oceanside50]

Erdoğan was elected by over 50% of the Turkish electorate, do you support the protesters although they are the minoirty? if you do then you are a fucking hypocrite like your other bum chums.

You are of course confusing democratically elected leader such as Erdogan, to that same leader to rule the whole country as a dictator, just because he was elected by the majority. Hitler too was elected democratically by the majority, so what's your point? Did you agree in the way Hitler ruled also? Erdogan wasn't elected to be a king and to rule by decree. That's not democracy. In fact, in any true democratic country, Erdogan would have been impeached by now and thrown out of office. Democracy is not only about one man one vote. That's just the first step. Erdogan, nor you as it appears, has learned the rest of the "pillars of democracy". I would suggest you get the book on "Democracy 101 for Idiots" to read. Whether you will comprehend what you read is another matter however.

Now you have proven to everyone yet again what an outright idiot you really are, if as you have stated above democracy can be manipulated and used to the advantage of a dictator then Im glad to inform you that you have just fallen into your own trap. Democracy is not black and white there are so many variables that can easily be manipulated to the detrement of certain minorities and to the benefit of people like Hitler Makarios or even Erdoğan. So you agree that the minority in Turkey those that did not vote for Erdoğan have the right to protest and do everything within their power to oppose such "dictators" who could demand that a country be given to another one without the support of all of its people? Now I know you are slow on the uptake but even you should be able to understand where this is going and how it can easily be compared to the 1960s in Cyprus, it will also help you get a grasp on how the GCs oppressed and dominated the TCs who fought back with everything they could resulting in possibly the best and only solution we can ever achieve, division.

Division is the biggest mistake that has befallen Cyprus and that was implemented by Turkey...What you fail to understand Vp is that its possible even with an overwhelming majority to keep the peace. Through a legal system that honors minority rights and an attitude from all citizens to uphold laws and respect one another. Instead of trying to keep the division both sides need to change their attitudes about one another, because sooner rather then later both will be forced bacck together again. I blame Cyprus' leaders on both sides and I blame the Cypriots for putting up with it...including you!