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I was There yesterday! (events in Istanbul)

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Re: I was There yesterday! (events in Istanbul)

Postby B25 » Mon Aug 05, 2013 3:30 pm

GreekIslandGirl wrote:
B25 wrote:Yes, when Saddam did this to his people the US and the UK were quick to get in there to kill him and take the oil fields. Why don't they do the same to Turkey?? Double standards. Why isn't the EU, UN and anyone else demanding sanctions against Turkey?? Now maybe they will understand the monster we are having to deal with. I hope the God that Turkey really does bite the US on the ass.


Turkey doesn't have oil. Saddam Hussein's undoing was declaring his intention to replace the petrodollar for the euro.


Sure, it was a figure of speech, I am sure they have other stuff the Yanks want and to put their 200 bases inside Turkey on their own say so.
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Re: I was There yesterday! (events in Istanbul)

Postby Maximus » Mon Aug 05, 2013 3:39 pm

B25 wrote:
Maximus wrote:
B25 wrote:Yes, when Saddam did this to his people the US and the UK were quick to get in there to kill him and take the oil fields. Why don't they do the same to Turkey?? Double standards. Why isn't the EU, UN and anyone else demanding sanctions against Turkey?? Now maybe they will understand the monster we are having to deal with. I hope the God that Turkey really does bite the US on the ass.


En delia pouti re, monon ei Kyprei exoun ta archithgia !


Nai H ellino kypei omos.


Nai re!
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Re: I was There yesterday! (events in Istanbul)

Postby supporttheunderdog » Mon Aug 05, 2013 3:52 pm

B25 wrote:Yes, when Saddam did this to his people the US and the UK were quick to get in there to kill him and take the oil fields. Why don't they do the same to Turkey?? Double standards. Why isn't the EU, UN and anyone else demanding sanctions against Turkey?? Now maybe they will understand the monster we are having to deal with. I hope the God that Turkey really does bite the US on the ass.


What oil fields does Turkey have, worth taking?

At the moment Turkey is worth more as an ally to the USA in the game against a resurgent Russia than as a target.
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Re: I was There yesterday! (events in Istanbul)

Postby B25 » Mon Aug 05, 2013 4:22 pm

supporttheunderdog wrote:
B25 wrote:Yes, when Saddam did this to his people the US and the UK were quick to get in there to kill him and take the oil fields. Why don't they do the same to Turkey?? Double standards. Why isn't the EU, UN and anyone else demanding sanctions against Turkey?? Now maybe they will understand the monster we are having to deal with. I hope the God that Turkey really does bite the US on the ass.


What oil fields does Turkey have, worth taking?

At the moment Turkey is worth more as an ally to the USA in the game against a resurgent Russia than as a target.


Yes indeed, we saw the level of her allegiance during the Iraq war when the refused their paymaster US to fly over the nothern part of Turkey. This terrorist nation cannot be trusted pure and simple and the sooner the US/UK see this the better.
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Re: I was There yesterday! (events in Istanbul)

Postby Tim Drayton » Thu Aug 08, 2013 5:11 pm

There have been new developments in the criminal investigation into the death of student Ali İsmail Korkmaz, who was badly beaten while participating in the protests in the city of Eskişehir on the night of 2 June and later died of his injuries.

The gendarmerie have managed to recover what was thought to be deleted CCTV footage of the beating that lead to Korkmaz’s death (below)

Image

and based on this, the public prosecutor yesterday summoned eight people, four of them policemen, for questioning. Of the eight, four (Mevlüt Salboğan – an officer with the anti-terror police, İsmail Koyuncu – the owner of a bakery, Ramazan Koyuncu and Muhammet Vatansever, the latter’s relatives) were remanded in custody on the charge of intentional manslaughter.

http://www.radikal.com.tr/turkiye/aliye ... is-1145291
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Re: I was There yesterday! (events in Istanbul)

Postby GreekIslandGirl » Thu Aug 08, 2013 8:51 pm

B25 wrote:
supporttheunderdog wrote:
B25 wrote:Yes, when Saddam did this to his people the US and the UK were quick to get in there to kill him and take the oil fields. Why don't they do the same to Turkey?? Double standards. Why isn't the EU, UN and anyone else demanding sanctions against Turkey?? Now maybe they will understand the monster we are having to deal with. I hope the God that Turkey really does bite the US on the ass.


What oil fields does Turkey have, worth taking?

At the moment Turkey is worth more as an ally to the USA in the game against a resurgent Russia than as a target.


Yes indeed, we saw the level of her allegiance during the Iraq war when the refused their paymaster US to fly over the nothern part of Turkey. This terrorist nation cannot be trusted pure and simple and the sooner the US/UK see this the better.


The US/UK do see what a nasty piece of work is Turkey, and that's precisely why they want to dump Turkey onto the EU.
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Re: I was There yesterday! (events in Istanbul)

Postby Tim Drayton » Mon Aug 12, 2013 12:03 pm

Image

Cumhuriyet newspaper interviewed 34-year-old Erdal Sarıkaya, one of the people who lost an eye in the Gezi Park protests as a result of a tear gas canister being fired directly in his face. Sarıkaya has a 4-year-old son and an 8-year-old daughter. In the interview, he describes how he was playing with his son:

“Geçen günlerde oğlumla körebe oynuyorduk. Oğlum ‘Baba iki gözünü kapar mısın?’ dedi. Şu an olanların farkında değil. Ama 10-15 yıl sonra bunu fark ettiği zaman başı dik ‘İşte benim babam bu. Benim ve ülkenin geleceği, daha eşit Türkiye için korkmadı, kendini feda etti’ diyecek. Bir baba, oğlu kendini örnek alıyorsa işte o görevini tamamlamıştır. O gün inanıyorum ki oğlum beni örnek alacak. O gurur bana yetecek” dedi.

[my translation]
He said, “The other day, I was playing blind man’s buff with my son. My son said, ‘Dad, will you close both your eyes?’ At the moment, he is unaware of what has happened. But in 10-15 years’ time, when he becomes aware, he will say with his head held high, ‘That’s my dad. He had the guts to sacrifice himself for my and the country’s future and a more equal Turkey.’ If a father serves as an example for his son, then he has fulfilled his duty. I believe that on that day my son will follow my example. That pride will be enough for me.”


http://www.cumhuriyet.com.tr/?hn=434174&kn=7&ka=4&kb=7
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Re: I was There yesterday! (events in Istanbul)

Postby Tim Drayton » Mon Aug 12, 2013 12:41 pm

Gürkan Korkmaz, who is a lawyer and the brother of Ali İsmail Korkmaz, who later died of his injuries after being savagely beaten up in a side street during Gezi Park protests in the city of Eskişehir on 2 June, has made a statement concerning the latest developments in the case, including the following comment:

“Darp edenlerden biri polis ve tutuklandı. Şöyle bir ayrıntı var; gerek fırının kamerasında, gerekse aynı saatlerdeki diğer işyerlerinin kamera kayıtlarında o saatlerde, o sokakta birçok polis görüntüleniyor. Polis orada normal bir vatandaş ya da esnaf değil. Hani ‘Fırıncı darp etmiş, diğer esnaflar izlemişler’ yorumunu polis için yapamayız. Polisin görevi asayişi sağlamak, hukuksuzluk oluşmasını engellemek, oluşan hukuksuzluklara müdahale edip suçluları gözaltına almak ya da gereken işlemleri yapmaktır. Kaldı ki bire bir hiç müdahaleyi etmemiş olsaydı bile polisler, fırıncıların darp eylemine müdahale etmeyerek aktif fail olmasalar da pasif olarak faildirler. Görevini kötüye kullanmıştır, görevini ihmal etmiştir. Kaldı ki, polis de işin içinde ve darp ediyor. Kafasına tekme atıyor.”

[my translation]
“One of those beating him up was a policeman, and he has been detained. Sight should not be lost of the fact that both in the bakery’s camera footage as well as that of cameras at other premises, several policemen are shown to have been in that street at that time. The police there are not ordinary citizens or small business owners. I mean, the comment that the baker started beating him and other small businessmen followed suit cannot be made with respect to the police. The police’s duty is to maintain order, prevent violation of the law from coming about and to intervene in any such violations that do occur and arrest the perpetrators or take the necessary action. So, the policemen, even if they did not directly take part, in failing to intervene in the baker’s assault, even if they are not active perpetrators, are, by virtue of failing to intervene, passive perpetrators. They abused their position and were derelict in their duty. However, the police also took part in the beating. One of them kicked his head.”
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Re: I was There yesterday! (events in Istanbul)

Postby Tim Drayton » Tue Aug 13, 2013 12:37 pm

14-year old B.E., who was hit in the head by a tear gas canister when he went out to buy a loaf of bread in the third week of the Gezi protests, has now been in intensive care, fighting for his life, for 59 days.

http://www.cumhuriyet.com.tr/?hn=434316&kn=7&ka=4&kb=7
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Re: I was There yesterday! (events in Istanbul)

Postby Tim Drayton » Tue Aug 13, 2013 2:53 pm

The Eurasian Global Research Centre [Avrasya Global Araştırmalar Merkezi], headed by the AKP Member of Parliament Prof. Dr. İdris Bal, has produced a report entitled ‘Analysis of the Taksim Events’. This report has sparked off much debate in the AKP. The following is my translation of the summary of this report as provided by the Radikal newspaper.

http://www.radikal.com.tr/turkiye/gezid ... di-1145699

THERE CAN BE NO DEMOCRACY FROM ELECTION TO ELECTION: Elections held at certain intervals, a necessary part of the multi-party system, are an absolute precondition for democracy. Of course, democracies do not consist purely of elections held at regular intervals. That is to say, no party or leader is entitled to say, ‘You have now appointed me, do not interfere with me until the next election.’

DIALOGUE WAS NOT ENGAGED IN: At the outset, the Taksim events were staged by people who were environmentally conscious and small in number. But, as a result of the nature of the intervention directed at this seemingly small number of environmentally conscious people and the failure to engage in adequate dialogue with them, with the entry into the arena of various factions who had probably been waiting for the opportunity, the content and form of the events changed entirely and the events ceased to be about what had happened or would happen in Taksim and turned rather into an outpouring of dissatisfaction and rage against, chiefly, the Esteemed Prime-Minister and, to a second degree, the government.

THE PEOPLE SHOULD HAVE BEEN ASKED ABOUT THE PROJECT: In countries where first-class democracy is in existence, all projects relating to spaces that the people have made their own and are in open view are conducted in consultation with the people and after having obtained the people’s consent. For, in democracies, the source of legitimacy is the people. In Taksim, public opinion was not gauged adequately and the process was not taken forward in consultation with the local people. This indicates that the project was seriously flawed even at the formulation stage. However, for a project such as a barracks, mosque, museum, mall or residential complex or even London’s Hyde Park, a variety of alternatives should be formulated and the people should be asked what these alternatives might be and then the alternatives should be set out. Then, whatever is felt to be the most desirable alternative should in one way or another be put forward to the people for approval. However, in the Taksim example, the people were not adequately consulted in the course of formulating the alternatives or as to the adoption of any alternative; even if we believed that this was the best alternative, the people were not adequately won over to our own truth.

IF DEMOCRATIC STEPS HAD BEEN TAKEN NO PROBLEM WOULD HAVE EMERGED: The central administration, and especially the Esteemed Prime-Minister, appeared, and was made to appear, to be the project’s owner, backer, planner and implementer. The mayors of neither Beyoğlu nor Istanbul Metropolitan municipalities appeared to be party to the project. The only backer appeared to be the Esteemed Prime-Minister and the government. Consequently, when the problem arose, to the first degree, the Esteemed Prime-Minister, to the second degree, the AK Party, to the third degree, the government and, to the fourth degree, the state became, and were made to be, protagonists in the problem. Whereas, if steps had been taken in keeping with democratic tradition, if a project concerning a local square had been worked on initially by Beyoğlu Municipality, if proposals and projects had been compiled in solidarity and consultation with the local people, if it had been given its final shape in cooperation with the metropolitan municipality and if the support of the people had been won in surveys and mini referenda, no problem would have arisen in any case.

THE PRIME-MINISTER WAS GIVEN THE WRONG GUIDANCE: Imagine that a problem arose and it turned out that the protagonist in the problem was, to the first degree, Beyoğlu Municipality and, to the second degree, Istanbul Metropolitan Municipality. In such a situation of crisis or chaos, the Esteemed Prime-Minister would, as head of the government, step in, not as a protagonist in the problem, but as a crisis solver, and if necessary could have made suggestions to the local administrators and could have acted as intermediary between the people and the administrators. Indeed, by way of political investment, if the Esteemed Prime-Minister had deemed the mayors to be at fault, he could have criticised them and even have suggested that in the future the party might continue at the local level under a new helm. However, the Esteemed Prime-Minister was given the wrong guidance and, in the way that it was portrayed to the public, even if this was not so, was made into the chief protagonist in the crisis. This was precisely a strategic error and an opportunity was given to the illegal factions waiting in lair that derive succour from chaos.

POLITICIANS MUST ACT RESPONSIBLY: The events that started in Taksim and spread throughout the country transformed into a problem which harmed our country, people, economy, image and diplomacy. As the events unfolded, they targeted, in particular, the Esteemed Prime-Minister, then the AK Party and the government. MHP leader Bahçeli’s warnings and his preventing one body of people from joining those groups was a praiseworthy stance. The same cannot be said of the CHP and BDP.
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