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I was There yesterday! (events in Istanbul)

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Re: I was There yesterday! (events in Istanbul)

Postby Tim Drayton » Fri Jul 19, 2013 5:17 pm

Tim Drayton wrote:On of those arrested on suspicion of murdering Ali İsmail Korkmaz, identified by his initials of S.K., was taken to make a statement to the public prosecutor. However, a problem has emerged, because by law a lawyer must be present when he makes this statement, and not a single lawyer in the whole city of Eskişehir is prepared to represent him!

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http://www.cumhuriyet.com.tr/?hn=428964&kn=7&ka=4&kb=7


This character known by his initials S.K. was released later that day but now the public prosecutor's office has successfully challenged the decision to release him at a higher court, and his detention has been ordered. An arrest warrant has been issued for S.K.

http://www.cumhuriyet.com.tr/?hn=429840&kn=7&ka=4&kb=7
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Re: I was There yesterday! (events in Istanbul)

Postby B25 » Sat Jul 20, 2013 9:23 am

His forwarding address is in Morocco :)
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Re: I was There yesterday! (events in Istanbul)

Postby bigOz » Sat Jul 20, 2013 10:15 am

I was there again yesterday - everything was back to normal and quiet in/around the park. But it seems the people have won a silent victory against PM Erdoğan because all construction work in and around Gezi Park as well as the new underpass/road going through Taksim Square has come to a complete halt by a High Court Order. There will not be a shopping centre constructed on the park and the future of the underpass will probably remain in the hands of the local municipality. This must be very unpleasant for PM Erdoğan after all the challenges he threw at people.

Although it was very tranquil at the park, it was more crowded than ever probably because of all the publicity it got during the the demonstrations. I also witnessed large groups of young people sitting on the grass - clearly ex-demonstrators keeping a 24 hr watch. To reinforce the decision not to go ahead with the destruction of most of the park - I was pleasantly surprised to see beautiful plants and flowers planted in a garden formed on the very land where some trees were chopped off (not uprooted as Erdoğan claimed!). I was even happier to see a middle aged couple walking through the park "talking Greek"! :D

He may never admit it, but Erdoğan has lost a lot more than just the case against Gezi Park - I feel a ton of weight lifted off of my body knowing that the majority of Turkish people are well informed and not scared to fight for their beliefs, rather than being just another bunch of Sheria following sheep! The battle may be finished but the war seems to be still going on at this time (demonstrations and demands that those responsible for the deaths of many young people are brought to justice still go on every weekend in İstanbul, Ankara, Hatay, Adana etc). Nothing much changed on the Police front though - each time they start of with water canons followed by pepper gas canisters. I am waiting to see what happens this weekend...
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Re: I was There yesterday! (events in Istanbul)

Postby Tim Drayton » Sat Jul 20, 2013 11:51 am

A new poll has shown that the ruling AKP's electoral support has dropped by 6%.

To the question: "If a general election were to be held on Sunday, which party would you vote for", 44.1% said they would vote for the AKP.

http://www.cumhuriyet.com.tr/?hn=429950&kn=7&ka=4&kb=7
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Re: I was There yesterday! (events in Istanbul)

Postby Tim Drayton » Sat Jul 20, 2013 12:12 pm

bigOz wrote:I was there again yesterday - everything was back to normal and quiet in/around the park. But it seems the people have won a silent victory against PM Erdoğan because all construction work in and around Gezi Park as well as the new underpass/road going through Taksim Square has come to a complete halt by a High Court Order. There will not be a shopping centre constructed on the park and the future of the underpass will probably remain in the hands of the local municipality. This must be very unpleasant for PM Erdoğan after all the challenges he threw at people.

Although it was very tranquil at the park, it was more crowded than ever probably because of all the publicity it got during the the demonstrations. I also witnessed large groups of young people sitting on the grass - clearly ex-demonstrators keeping a 24 hr watch. To reinforce the decision not to go ahead with the destruction of most of the park - I was pleasantly surprised to see beautiful plants and flowers planted in a garden formed on the very land where some trees were chopped off (not uprooted as Erdoğan claimed!). I was even happier to see a middle aged couple walking through the park "talking Greek"! :D

He may never admit it, but Erdoğan has lost a lot more than just the case against Gezi Park - I feel a ton of weight lifted off of my body knowing that the majority of Turkish people are well informed and not scared to fight for their beliefs, rather than being just another bunch of Sheria following sheep! The battle may be finished but the war seems to be still going on at this time (demonstrations and demands that those responsible for the deaths of many young people are brought to justice still go on every weekend in İstanbul, Ankara, Hatay, Adana etc). Nothing much changed on the Police front though - each time they start of with water canons followed by pepper gas canisters. I am waiting to see what happens this weekend...


I still think we are in the early stages of a turning point in the history of the Republic of Turkey which, if successful, will usher in pluralist democracy in place of majoritarian democracy, but a huge struggle still remains ahead.

As to Erdoğan, even if there are signs of a slipping of support, I am suprised that more of the party faithful do not object to his repeated recourse to lying, such as the claim, even denied by the officials at the mosque in question, that the protestors drank alcohol and did not take their shoes off in a mosque. Surely lying is a sin in Islam, and he is the leader of an Islamic party and has no scruples about imposing his values on others by force. Does this not impose the obligation to be an exemplary Muslim himself? That is the way my logic works as an atheist. Perhaps there is something about the religious mentality that I will never understand.

On Friday, in the holy month of Ramadan, and addressing at a dinner at the end of the day's fasting no less, he came out with the words, "In Turkey, one, two, three or four people die while using violence against the police." Including among the killed protestors is Ali İsmail Korkmaz. There is an abundance of eye witness and CCTV evidence as to the beating that resulted in his death, and it all shows that this 19-year-old boy was an unarmed peaceful protestor who was set on and brutally beaten when he ran into a side street to escape tear gas. Nobody could accuse this boy of "using violence against the police", yet Erdoğan quite openly tells this lie in the holy month of Ramadan. What kind of Muslim does that make him?

It is amazing that nobody among the party faithful seems to see this, but he is getting carried away and I think that sooner or later he will come out with something so outrageous that it will break the spell he has cast over a section of the population.
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Re: I was There yesterday! (events in Istanbul)

Postby Tim Drayton » Sat Jul 20, 2013 12:30 pm

Mustafa Sarısülük, brother of Ethem Sarısülük, who died after being shot in the course of the protests, has made a similar point. He is reported as saying (with reference to Erdoğan's comment about people 'dying while using violence against the police":

Gerçekle hiç alakası yok. Şunu söylemesi gerekir ama beceremiyor, kibrinden olsa gerek, ‘biz bunları katlettik, halkın çocuklarını katlettik’ diyemiyor. Polise karşı şiddet uygulanırken öldüler diyerek masumane göstermeye çalışıyor. Bu kutsal ayda oruç tutuyor ama nasıl oruç tuttuğunu açıkçası bilmek gerekiyor. Her gün yalan söyleyerek, her gün gerçekleri gizleyerek oruç tutulmaz.

[my translation]
It has no connection with the truth. What he should have said but can’t manage to, it must be out of conceit, what he is unable to say is “We slaughtered them, we slaughtered the people’s children.” In saying that they died using violence against the police, he is trying to make himself look innocent. He is fasting in this holy month but he needs to clearly know how to fast. You can’t fast and tell lies every day, and hide the truth every day.


http://www.cumhuriyet.com.tr/?hn=429942&kn=7&ka=4&kb=7
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Re: I was There yesterday! (events in Istanbul)

Postby supporttheunderdog » Sat Jul 20, 2013 1:10 pm

Tim Drayton wrote:A new poll has shown that the ruling AKP's electoral support has dropped by 6%.

To the question: "If a general election were to be held on Sunday, which party would you vote for", 44.1% said they would vote for the AKP.

http://www.cumhuriyet.com.tr/?hn=429950&kn=7&ka=4&kb=7


....or the police would beat them up?
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Re: I was There yesterday! (events in Istanbul)

Postby Tim Drayton » Mon Jul 22, 2013 11:12 am

bigOz wrote:[...]
But it seems the people have won a silent victory against PM Erdoğan because all construction work in and around Gezi Park as well as the new underpass/road going through Taksim Square has come to a complete halt by a High Court Order.


There is uncertainty about this again. An administrative court ruled against the building of a shopping centre, or any other kind of development, at Gezi Park, but this decision is open to appeal at the Council of State and so has yet to be finalised. Logically enough, the same court issued a stay of execution to halt construction work pending the ruling. Now, this stay of execution has been successfully objected to at a higher administrative court and has been lifted. So, technically, construction work could restart any time, if the authorities wish, although they would have to stop again if the Council of State appeal failed and the first-instance administrative court's ruling were upheld.
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Re: I was There yesterday! (events in Istanbul)

Postby Tim Drayton » Tue Jul 23, 2013 8:33 am

Serkan Kavak, who had previously been questioned in connection with the murder of nineteen-year-old Ali İsmail Korkmaz and then released, has now been arrested and remanded in custody. In issuing the remand order, the judge argued:

Şüphelinin tesadüfen olay yerinde bulunduğu, maktule bir eyleminin olmadığı yönünde beyanda bulunduğu, ancak bu savunmasını yalanlayan, özellikle olay yerine belirli bir amaçla geldiğini ortaya koyan tanık beyanları ile şüphelinin atılı suçu işlediği yönünde kuvvetli suç şüphesi oluşmuştur.

[my translation:]
The suspect stated that he was at the scene of the incident by chance and committed no act against the deceased, but, through witness statements which contradict this defence and show that he especially came to the scene of the incident for a specific purpose, strong suspicion has arisen that the suspect committed the offence of which he is accused.


The judge, giving reasons for his decision, also stressed that the suspect was not alone and unidentified policemen may also have been involved in the offence.

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http://www.radikal.com.tr/turkiye/oldur ... is-1142929
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Re: I was There yesterday! (events in Istanbul)

Postby Tim Drayton » Tue Jul 23, 2013 10:44 am

Tim Drayton wrote:
Kikapu wrote:[...] she most probably also tweeted, which must be punishable by death.
[...]


Talking of tweeting, the following picture of Sabri Çelebi, who attacked peaceful protesters with a cleaver in Talimhane, Istanbul, and is now in Moroco, was sent by a mate of his via Twitter:

Image

I was wondering why he would chose a relatively liberal place like Morocco when there are Islamic paradises like Saudi Arabia or Iran to choose from, but it seems that his wife is Moroccan, so that might explain things. He has also apparently bought a return ticket with a flight back on 10 August. I wonder if he will return?

It seems that this fellow was released pending trial on Monday and included in the court’s reasons for this decision was the phrase “kaçma şüphesinin bulunmaması” [no suspicion that he will abscond]. However, the prosecutor objected to the decision at a higher court on Tuesday, and the higher court agreed with the prosecutor and ordered that Çelebi be remanded and that an arrest warrant for him be issued. However, it appears that the arrest warrant had not yet been issued on the day that Çelebi left the country (Wednesday). In fact, the letter needed by the police to execute the arrest warrant has still not been delivered to them!

And Gilbert and Sullivan thought the French gendarmerie were a joke!

http://www.radikal.com.tr/turkiye/palali_kacti-1141479


Sabri Çelebi changed his return flight to 22 July (yesterday) but, surprise, surprise, did not emerge from the plane when it landed in Istanbul.


http://www.cumhuriyet.com.tr/?hn=430500&kn=7&ka=4&kb=7
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