Cyprus-Forum.com

[Oceanside50]

[quote][Political equality would lead to a 'spring' as we are witnessing in Turkey today and what was witnessed in Cyprus in the 60's, leading to the events of 1974. It seems as if you do not understand anything and do in fact support a fascist TC dictatorship in Cyprus./

Political equality for a minority would destroy a country. What's needed in a multicultural /ethnic country is an efficient legal system where justice is blind and non capricious..

[Maximus]

Political equality would lead to a 'spring' as we are witnessing in Turkey today and what was witnessed in Cyprus in the 60's, leading to the events of 1974. It seems as if you do not understand anything and do in fact support a fascist TC dictatorship in Cyprus.

Political equality for a minority would destroy a country. What's needed in a multicultural /ethnic country is an efficient legal system where justice is blind and non capricious..

Yes, exactly, Political equality for TC's = dictatorship for the GC's.

Its as if the "TC's" are a community of pea brained facist dictators who like swelling their ranks with Turkish nations that think just the same. why is this the GC's fault?

An all out Turkish withdrawal from Cyprus and separation by sea is the solution to every ones problems.

[bigOz]

BigOz

So what has been denied from the TC's? democracy like it was for the GC's or political equality? which the TC's had and which only they demand today? The TC's picked up their RoC passports with EU visa exception, recognised the world over in 2004? of the the back of the GC's. Thank them!

This I take as a typical fascist attitude! Deny what is the democratic right of a TC as citizens of a country they have lived in for the past 550 years more (340 years of which they actually owned and ruled it) and expect them to "thank you" I think the EU was the one who decided that TCs should also be entitled to Cyprus Republic passports - one of the "arse licking" conditions you probably had to accept after refusing the Annan plan.

So its actually political equality you support, to deny the GC's their rights and democracy. You hypocrite, whats worse is that you blame the GC's for preferring a democracy without the TC's. You blame the GC's for not preferring a TC dictatorship and saying yes to the Annan plan. In the meantime, Erdogan is transferring Turkish nationals to become politically equal and dictate to the GC's and you blame them for this as well.

Not only it is you the hypocrite but your intelligence level seems to be exceptionally low even for a Greek! How can you ask for "democracy for GCs without TCs" - this sounds more like a racist comment coming from a fuckn Nazi! "Democracy for all Germans - except the Jewish ones"!

You are too blind to see that your stupid ideas as such and the rejection of their existence had forced TCs to become more and more dependent on Turkey, to a point where they are actually being run by a dictatorship where the puppets of ministers in the North have their strings pulled by their counterparts in Turkey! Worst is, people in North prefer to be run by a bunch of puppets than any Greek "bearing gifts". Meanwhile North Cyprus has actually become another state in Turkey - you can scream, swera and say all you like but it is highly unlikely anything will change in any forseeable future.

"Because a joint Cypriot nation would have designed their history, social and cultural books not to teach hatred to their children, and draw a line over the hatred that has been kept alive by the propaganda of fascists on both sides!"

Rubbish, I bet you wished you could throw journalists in jail, revise history to suit you, come down on freedom of expression, just like Erdogan.

In fact, it was one of your own ministers who admitted that the GCs have been teaching the "wrong history" to their children! If I am not mistaken, many history books used at high schools down South have been revised not so long ago! Furthermore, no journailsts have been thrown in jail in TRNC, and aven the 14 year olds know more about the true story of Cyprus when compared to most adults down South!

"Majority of Cypriots do not care if you are TC or GC, their families, well being and healthy economy would always come first - unless some shite-stirrer plants seeds of hatred and racist fanaticism to serve the purposes of a minority.."

Political equality would lead to a 'spring' as we are witnessing in Turkey today and what was witnessed in Cyprus in the 60's, leading to the events of 1974. It seems as if you do not understand anything and do in fact support a fascist TC dictatorship in Cyprus.

You really think and write like a clown - you do make me laugh! Fluck "springs" and any other 2 pence worth terminology you may pick from the media! What you are witnessing in Turkey is raw freedom in action where the masses can actually resist (and have successfully resisted) any wanna be dictator or a fascist! So what was the outcome of the unrest of the workers in Greece where the police got away with woese heavy hand tactics? Today it was announced that at least a dozen policemen in Istanbul are to be charged with using unduely excessive force against the public. THAT to me is not the actions of a fascist dictator state - how many police in so called "democratic" Greece were charged after the events there? Did the police in fact evacuate the stage in Greece, leaving the demonstrators get on with airing their views?

Hey Maximus, you stick to what you believe in and carry on with your amigos the way you think is best AND stay as the biggest supporter of fascism that you are now. Sad thing is - your poor brains are not even aware of it!

[GreekIslandGirl]

.. What you are witnessing in Turkey is raw freedom in action where the masses can actually resist (and have successfully resisted) any wanna be dictator or a fascist!

What we have witnessed, are witnessing, despite the Turkish media shutdown and tacit western approval of playing this down to help buddy Erdogan, is one of the worst forms of police brutalities on show since Tienanmen square. Thousands of protesters imprisoned, several blinded permanently and quite a few dead directly at the hands of the police it would seem. Investigations of police brutality are supposedly going to be made (yeah, right) only to appease Amnesty International who have footage of some of the actual brutalities - otherwise it would be the usual midnight express, hidden ...

[Maximus]

BigOz

Are you and your Turkish posse going to go claim lands and political equality from and with the people of Greece, Bulgaria, Syria, Israel, Egypt and Libya etc as well because the ottomans conquered their lands 550 years ago too?

You either want a fascist dictatorship under the guise of political equality or you want democracy. which is it? (it doesn't matter, I know the answer)

I still think separation is the best solution for everyone. You get democracy with your Turkish posse in Turkey. Just forget about northern Cyprus, like you forgot about all the other states that emerged from the collapse of the ottoman empire. There is no justification holding so much Greek Cypriot property hostage, embargo yourselves and persist in claiming shares in everything else. You will be re-compensated with a like-for-like property in Turkey.

[bigOz]

BigOz

Are you and your Turkish posse going to go claim lands and political equality from and with the people of Greece, Bulgaria, Syria, Israel, Egypt and Libya etc as well because the ottomans conquered their lands 550 years ago too?

You either want a fascist dictatorship under the guise of political equality or you want democracy. which is it? (it doesn't matter, I know the answer)

I still think separation is the best solution for everyone. You get democracy with your Turkish posse in Turkey. Just forget about northern Cyprus, like you forgot about all the other states that emerged from the collapse of the ottoman empire. There is no justification holding so much Greek Cypriot property hostage, embargo yourselves and persist in claiming shares in everything else. You will be re-compensated with a like-for-like property in Turkey.

What makes you think that you and your Greek posse conquered and claimed the right to all the land belonging to civilizations in the Aegean couple of thousand years before that, and yet it is not OK for someone else to come over and conquer land in the same area thousand years later?

You keep referring to an age spreading over thousands of years where the strong conquered and ruled any land in Eastern Europe all the way down to the Mediterranean. Romans did it, Greeks (invaders from North) did it and so did Attila! What is right for one is right for the others

For your information, had it not been for the Ottomans conquering Cyprus from the Venetians back in1571 and ruling the island for 300 years, the island would probably have been an Italian outpost by now! At the time The Greek Orthodox Church was banned, the Roman Catholic Church was imposed and many Greeks started to retreat back to other Greek parts in the Mediterranean. Correct me if I am wrong but I am not aware of any Greek uprising in Cyprus or any attempts by the Greek mainland to conquer Cyprus for the Greeks. They (as well as the Orthodox church) were being erased by the Venetians who also gave them weapons to fight the "invading Turk" - where they failed miserably yet again.

When the Turkish rule started for the next 300 years, "The Ottomans applied the millet system to Cyprus, which allowed religious authorities to govern their own non-Muslim minorities. This system reinforced the position of the Orthodox Church and the cohesion of the ethnic Greek population. Gradually the Archbishop of Cyprus became not only religious but ethnic leader as well, something the Ottoman Turks promoted, wanting to have somebody responsible for the loyalty of the Greek flock."

Any uprising against the Ottomans during the centuries to come were in fact led my the Turkish Cypriots who settled in Cyprus, against the heavy taxing of the people. Even some of the Pasha's who held important positions in the army and towns joined the rebellion, losing their heads (literally) in the end. The uprisings were not for the Hellenization of the island - which many Greek history books would wrongly prefer to refer to as such - but it was the first uprising of the people of Cyprus TC and GC together against an oppressive regime where workers of the land were suffering. It had nothing to do with Greece or Greek nationalism! Union with Greece did not even come into the equation until the middle of 19th century! BECAUSE THERE WAS NO GREECE AT THE TIME! The whole of todays Greece had already become part of the Ottoman Empire together with the rest of the Eastern Byzantine and the Balkans!

In fact, the only external help sought by the Greek Orthodox Church in Cyprus was from King Philip II of Spain - to liberate the island(?). As if the Spanish would fight the Ottomans to turn over the island to GCs If they did then you would have all been converted to the same faith as the ultra religious Catholic faith running the Spain affairs at the time - you would all have converted, possibly speaking Spanish today (would not have been too bad since it is more popular in the World than the Greek language)

Before you go into a nervous breakdown and start puking the usual rubbish you do, I invite and challenge you to show what I write above is not true! If you cannot, then my ears are deaf to your squealing.

BTW, contrary to your wishes, it is the GCs who are currently being compensated for their land left in the North not the TCs! What you do not realise is, in another decade or two there will be no land left uncompensated, to be claimed by the GCs - and then what?

Get your own house in order before chanting nonsense!

[Maximus]

BigOz

You either want a fascist dictatorship under the guise of political equality or you want democracy. which is it? (it doesn't matter, I really do know the answer now)

Three long winded posts from you, going off on tangents and still the only answer to my original question is that you support a fascist TC dictatorship in Cyprus under the guise of political equality.

I admire your fight against the fascist tyrant dictator Erdogan but I am not impressed with your double standards and how you are coming here telling the people who are being oppressed by Turks and Turkey how you are fighting fascism and dictatorship rule, when really, you are not.

What is likely is that you will replace him with another fascist dictator that supports your views of maintaining the occupation and continue oppressing Greek Cypriots in Cyprus.

[GreekIslandGirl]

Any uprising against the Ottomans during the centuries to come were in fact led my the Turkish Cypriots who settled in Cyprus, against the heavy taxing of the people.

Your historical revisionism does your turkishness proud. There were no such people as "TCs" let alone any interest from them in any uprising. "TCs" were a blip from 1960 until 1974 - and now no more.

From one of Simon's old posts:

Actually, the Greek Cypriots have always been known as Greeks:

...'They were singing in the Greek tongue, so we could not understand them, because all the people in Cyprus speak Greek...'
Jacobus de Vevona, Augustian Monk
-visited Cyprus in 1335


...'The people in Limassol are Greeks and so are all the inhabitants of Cyprus, and they speak Greek...'
Oldrich Prefat, Czech nobleman
-visited Cyprus in 1546

'... for the Turks have no care themselves for agriculture, and if they see any of the Greek natives occupying themselves in cultivating the soil, or amassing wealth, they either harass them with avanie (so the Italians call the fraudulent tricks of the Turks), or drain their resources by exactions, and flay them, so to speak, to the bone...' Ioannes Cotovicus
Doctor of Civil and Canon Law, in the University, of Utrecht
-visited Cyprus in 1598-9

'... The Greeks and other Christian inhabitants cannot be but poor on account of the ill treatment and tyranny which they suffer from the Turks in their person and property... Very many of them, unable to hear any longer this cruel tyranny, wish to turn Turk; but many are rejected, becausee (say their lords) in receiving them into the Moslem faith their tribute would be so much diminished...'
Noel Dominique Hurtrel
"Du Voiage de Jerusalem "
-visited Cyprus in 1670

'... Cyprus surpasses every other Greek island in the number of natives illustrious for their birth, dignity, learning and saintliness... '
Abbe Giovanni Mariti
Official of the Imperial and Tuscan
Consulates, lived in Cyprus 1760-67
Author of the "Viaggi per I'Isola di Cipro"


'... Marcello Cerrutti, a distinguished Italian, formerly an ambassador, now a senator who had studied the Cypriots closely, characterized them truly when he said to me a few years ago in Rome': "Cyprus is the noblest aspect of Hellenism."
("Cipro e la piu nobile fisionomia del grecismo.")
Agnes Smith
Renowned British Novelist,
Author of "Glimpses of Greek Life and Scenery " etc,
visited Cyprus in 1883
(Extract from page 225 of her book
"THOUGH CYPRUS "
Published in England in 1887.

It is also clear that the Ottomans knew the Christians of Cyprus were Greeks, as did the Greek Cypriots themselves, before anything British arrived on the island:

'During the Greek War of Independence in 1821, the Ottoman authorities feared that Greek Cypriots would rebel again. Archbishop Kyprianos, a powerful leader who worked to improve the education of Greek Cypriot children, was accused of plotting against the government. Kyprianos, his bishops, and hundreds of priests and important laymen were arrested and summarily hanged or decapitated on July 9, 1821. After a few years, the archbishops were able to regain authority in religious matters, but as secular leaders they were unable to regain any substantial power until after World War II.'

http://www.country-data.com/cgi-bin/query/r-3469.html

On the other hand, what is a new phenomenon is this idea of a "Cypriot":

'Cypriotism existed neither as a term nor as a concept of a shared identity before the tragic events of 1974. Both communities defined themselves rather as Turks and Greeks respectively.'

'Thus "Cypriotism" is not the result of a long process developed in centuries of identity building, but rather a concept developed by intellectuals aimed to overcome a political and social tragedy.'

[Maximus]

Nice post Greek island Girl

BigOz would love to revise history, crack down on freedom of expression, bring back apartheid under the guise of political equality and tell the Greek Cypriots what they must think, just like Erdogan.

[Get Real!]

Actually, the Greek Cypriots have always been known as Greeks:

Oh my God!!!

They said all those things centuries ago and in perfect English too!!!

My goodness gracious me... that's it! You have won the argument and destroyed all enemies before you!!!

Ok the CF may close down now because we cannot counter irrefutable evidence!