Cyprus-Forum.com

[Mik]

So who does care about Cyprus?

If Greece is unable to help like you say, who should Cyprus turn too?
From your post its not looking to bright is it? Can't trust no one apart from the Greeks who cannot help.

[GreekIslandGirl]

If Greece is unable to help like you say, who should Cyprus turn too?

Do not underestimate how much Greece supports Cyprus. Help comes in many forms and not simply making an all-out war [like some round here dream of since they personally are not likely to be recruited to fight].

[Mik]

I wasn't, I was asking a question of the guy who posted the long winded ramble before me.

[Get Real!]

Do not underestimate how much Greece supports Cyprus. Help comes in many forms...

[Maximus]

So who does care about Cyprus?

If Greece is unable to help like you say, who should Cyprus turn too?
From your post its not looking to bright is it? Can't trust no one apart from the Greeks who cannot help.

Cyprus could turn more militant and trust herself to defend herself.

She needs a state of the art, top of the line, anti-missile, anti-aircraft, anti-ship "iron dome".

[Piratis]

So who does care about Cyprus?

If Greece is unable to help like you say, who should Cyprus turn too?
From your post its not looking to bright is it? Can't trust no one apart from the Greeks who cannot help.

Under the current balance of power the max we can achieve is to maintain what we have so we can hope for the future under a different balance of power.

Greece is not a superpower but it is a close ally that we can have for "free" so people should stop stupidly attacking this relationship since this serves only the plans of our enemies.

I hope we will manage to take advantage of the new "friendship" with Israel, but people should realize that Israel will not liberate Cyprus, at best this partnership will help us with the gas finds (which is not a small thing). People should also realize that a close partnership with Israel has a cost: Pissing off the Arabs, which could result in them upgrading their relationship with the "trnc" and elevating its status. Furthermore I hope that Israel has realized that it can not trust Turkey, but the Americans want a close Israel-Turkey cooperation, so don't be surprised if Israel does a 180 degrees turn on us one day.

[Piratis]

So who does care about Cyprus?

If Greece is unable to help like you say, who should Cyprus turn too?
From your post its not looking to bright is it? Can't trust no one apart from the Greeks who cannot help.

Cyprus could turn more militant and trust herself to defend herself.

She needs a state of the art, top of the line, anti-missile, anti-aircraft, anti-ship "iron dome".

(1) We don't have the money to buy those things.
(2) Many of those "top of the line" things are made by the Americans who will not sell them to us.
(3) Even if somebody sold it to us the Turks would not allow us to install them (remember the s-300?)
(4) Even if we magically managed to overcome 1,2 and 3 we still wouldn't stand a chance in a 1 on 1 war with Turkey since they are 80.000.000 and we are just 800.000 (100 times more)

[Viewpoint]

Piratis you appear to have a grasp on reality for a change well done.

[Oceanside50]

Piratis as always a great post. One thing I want to add is that Greece throughout the years has offered a deterent to Turkey in her attempts at intimidation of Cyprus.. Back in 96 when Turkey was threatening Cyprus over the S300's Greek f-16's were buzzing overNicosia/ Limassol,coupled with Simitis' statement of a cassus belli, in many instances. It showed that Greece is willing to defend and protect Cyprus.. Against any further aggressive acts by Turkey....

[Paphitis]

So who does care about Cyprus?

If Greece is unable to help like you say, who should Cyprus turn too?
From your post its not looking to bright is it? Can't trust no one apart from the Greeks who cannot help.

Under the current balance of power the max we can achieve is to maintain what we have so we can hope for the future under a different balance of power.

Greece is not a superpower but it is a close ally that we can have for "free" so people should stop stupidly attacking this relationship since this serves only the plans of our enemies.

I hope we will manage to take advantage of the new "friendship" with Israel, but people should realize that Israel will not liberate Cyprus, at best this partnership will help us with the gas finds (which is not a small thing). People should also realize that a close partnership with Israel has a cost: Pissing off the Arabs, which could result in them upgrading their relationship with the "trnc" and elevating its status. Furthermore I hope that Israel has realized that it can not trust Turkey, but the Americans want a close Israel-Turkey cooperation, so don't be surprised if Israel does a 180 degrees turn on us one day.

Piratis, you would make a great Greek politician!

You mention Balance of Power, but let's look at that more closer with an analytical approach.

Look at the following links:

Greece and Turkey: Offensive and Defensive Balance of Naval Power in 2012

http://www.balkanalysis.com/greece/2012 ... r-in-2012/

Greece and Turkey: Offensive and Defensive Balance of Air Power in 2012

http://www.balkanalysis.com/greece/2012 ... r-in-2012/

Planes

Greece: P-3B: 6 planes

Turkey: CN-235: 6 planes; also 10 ATR ASW on order

Helicopters



Greece: S-70B, AB 212 ASW/EW, and SA Alouette III: 23 helicopters

Turkey: S-70B, AB 212 ASW/EW, AB 204, and Socata TB20: 29 helicopters

Main Battle Vessels

Greece uses 14 frigates and Turkey 17. Also, Turkey has 7 corvettes, while Greece has none. Lastly, Turkey has 27 fast attack boats, while Greece has 20, and also has 10 gunboats.

Frigates

Greece: MEKO 200, S-Kortenaer types: 14 plus 10 gunboats

Turkey: PERRY, MEKO 200 types: 17 plus 7 corvettes (D’Estienne D’Orves type)

Fast Attack Boats

Greece: Super Vita, Combatane III types: 20 plus 1 on order

Turkey: KILIC, DOGAN, KARTAL types: 27

Other Types of Vessels

Other types of vessels possessed by the two navies include patrol boats, coastal defense ships, coast guard vessels, landing craft and mine-hunting boats, hovercrafts, logistics and training boats, and so on.

Greece: 186 vessels, out of which six are coastal defense, 95 coast guard, eight patrol boats, three hovercrafts, five marine troop transportation vessels, 15 landing attack vessels, 10 mine-hunting vessels, three petrol fuel vessels and 41 others.

Turkey: 219 vessels- basically, in the same proportions as the Greek ones, with the exception of the hovercraft.

Advanced types

Greece: F-16′s (Block 50 and Block 52+) and Mirage 2000-5 Mk2: 113 jets

Turkey: F-16′s Block 50: 30 jets on order (an estimated 10 have already arrived)

Older modern jets

Greece: F-16′s (Block 30/40/50) and Mirage 2000 EGM/BGM: 92 jets

Turkey: F-16′s (Block 30/40/50): 203 jets

Older types

Greece: F-4 PI2000, F-4E/2020, F-4 RF and A-7E/H: 113 jets

Turkey: F-4 2020, F-4E, RF-4E and F-5: 144 jets

Transport planes

Greece: C-130 and C-27J Spartan: 27 planes

Turkey: C-130 and C-235: 80 planes

Training planes

Greece: T-2E, T-6A, T-41D: 103 planes

Turkey: T-38A/B/C, T-41D, SF.260D: 189 planes

General-purposes planes

Greece: Canadair 215, Gulfstream V, EMB-135, PZL, G-16: 58 planes

Turkey: Gulfstream IV, C650 Citation: 7 planes

Helicopters

Greece: AS332C1 Super Puma, AB 205, AB 212, A-109: 23 helicopters

Turkey: AS532 Cougar, UH-1H: 79 helicopters

Now from the above, please tell me again what you believe the balance of power truly is!

Let me tell you this. Greece has an enormous amount of fire power! It could fight a war with Turkey very easily if it came to that!

What Greece lacks is the political will to help Cyprus. It could have done far more than what it has done. Because they lack this political will, we are all alone, facing the Turkish occupation. Turkey knows that Greece lacks the political will and therefore keeps upping the ante, hence the Cassus Belli against Greece over the 12nms Terrotorial Sea claim by Greece under UNCLOS.

Because Greece lacks the political will to help, NATO and the West see it as a pointless exercise to offend Turkey. If they believed a war was imminent between 2 very heavily armed NATO allies, then this changes things drastically.

But at the moment, they get praised as the "good guys" because they seek negotiations for a peaceful remedy (which I think we all would desire), which I guarantee you will not be in the RoC's favour or yours as a RoC citizen living in Cyprus.

So once again Piratis, tell me! Why did Greece lack the political will for the last few decades?

I am still trying to work out how the Turkish Navy will be able to navigate the narrow channels between one Greek Island and the next without running into a Greek submarine personally! Those Turks must be extremely bloody talented!