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CNG - orders new Navy Corvettes from France

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Re: CNG - orders new Navy Corvettes from France

Postby Paphitis » Fri May 24, 2013 6:49 pm

Mik wrote:They were following the "Hearts and Mind" stuff. This is a different age of warfare. Civilians matter, just look back to the Second world War, would they have expended that amount of manpower just to save collateral damage? No they would have turned the village into a greasy smear. Cyprus cannot afford Greece an Turkey using it as there own playground....
Yes your out....


For 30 years Greece has had no excuse for acting like a spineless defeatist country of jerks!

For that, they should be ashamed of themselves! It has cost them big time, and their politicians stupidity costs Cyprus!

For that they can never be forgiven!

No other cuntry will allow Turkey to get away with murder in their back yard! Their cowardice only spurs Turkey on!

Imia is not Cyprus!

And another thing, the US will never allow a war between 2 NATO members! The Greeks could have sunk a couple of their ships and that is the great political equalizer and it would have advantaged Greece in the Aegean and Cyprus also! Tgen America steps in and everything is quiet again!
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Re: CNG - orders new Navy Corvettes from France

Postby Oceanside50 » Fri May 24, 2013 7:20 pm

The impression that we all have is that the USA would step in if war breaks out but they're stepping in to save the Turks from an embarrassing defeat ...that's the main concern of the usa
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Re: CNG - orders new Navy Corvettes from France

Postby Mik » Fri May 24, 2013 8:10 pm

Yes, we all know that the 'Super Powers' have 'resources' lap dogs, tame countries and or mad dogs depending on your view....

Paphitis. Dude they are users, they don't care about Cyprus, they care about who's the best, who's the dogs! Cyprus is just another excuse. It makes me sick that this beautiful island is being used in a 'My Dad's bigger than your Dad game'.
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Re: CNG - orders new Navy Corvettes from France

Postby bigOz » Fri May 24, 2013 8:39 pm

Sorry Paphitis! I just logged on again because I am not really a very regular attender of such forums (not good for my health) - they are only exciting if taken in small portions :)

You asked too many question and I shall explain to you the load factors on this occasion as shortly as possible. First you must familiarise yourself with some of the terminology.

Mass (m) is the amount of matter in a substance and it does not change in value no matter where you are in the universe.
Weight is the vertical force exerted on a body due to earth’s gravity (or the gravity of the planet you are on). It is given as:
mg = mass x acceleration (due to gravity - downwards).

Lift (L) is the force on the body and wings of an aircraft, opposing the downwards “weight” (W) force. When in level flight lift force must equal to the weight. Since the mass is same for both the weight and the lift on the aircraft, the lift force acceleration upwards must also be equal and opposite to the gravitational (g) acceleration downwards.

The Load Factor (G) also known as G force, is the ratio of the lift force to weight, given by the formula G = L / W

Any increase in the speed of an aircraft also increases the lift force due to aircraft’s aeronautic wing and body design.

A steep turn is any angle of turn higher than 30 degrees.

When you enter a steep turn, the wings are at an angle to the ground. The weight (W) stays the same because it is always vertically down, The lift force however, acts on the wings (at right angles to wing surface). If you visualise an aircraft in a turn with the weight force vertically down and the lift on wings at right angles to the wing surface, you can see that the two forces will no longer be opposite. Only the vertical component of the Lift force will counter the Weight. This component is only a fraction of the actual force acting perpendicular to the wing surface, hence the speed of the aircraft must be increased to increase total lift where the vertical component can compensate for the weight.

When the speed and hence the lift increases, the acceleration in a turn also increases and this will clearly be more than the gravitational (g). It is this acceleration towards the centre of the circle of the turn that pushes you in your seat and you feel a pressure on your backside (as well as internal organs).
During straight and level, the since lift (L) and weight (W) are equal (and opposite); G = L/W = 1

In steep turns, depending on the angle of the turn, the lift will need to be higher, at an increasing rate to compensate for the weight and prevent a stall. This is achieved by increasing the power and hence the speed of the aircraft. The bigger the angle of turn the more power and speed is required to counter balance the weight. NOTE: This is same as saying “the stall speed will be higher at greater angles of turn” (ie the aircraft will stall at a higher speed than it would have done during straight and level flight).
The standard load factors (G) for different angles of turn are given by:

0 bank G = 1
30 bank G = 1.15
45 bank G = 1.4
60 bank G = 2.0
75 bank G = 4.0

Based on above information you can work out the safe speed for the turn by calculating the new increased stall speed (Vsa) using the normal stall speed value (Vs) and the Load Factor (N). The formula for working that out is:

Vsa = Vs x √N If your normal stall speed (Vs) is 40 knots then the above values will tell you that:

0 degrees bank G = 1 Vs = 40 knots
30 " bank G = 1.15 Vsa = 40 x √1.15 = 43 knots
45 " bank G = 1.4 Vsa = 40 x √1.4 = 47 knots
60 " bank G = 2.0 Vsa = 40 x √2.0 = 57 knots
75 " bank G = 4.0 Vsa = 40 x √4.0 = 80 knots

Usually extra power is also required to oppose the increased drag at those angles. But usually an increase of 100-200 rpm would do for a 45 degree bank.

IMPORTANT: You must remember that the aircraft’s speed in a turn should be at least 10 knots above the stall speeds worked out above.
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Re: CNG - orders new Navy Corvettes from France

Postby Mik » Fri May 24, 2013 9:56 pm

Never thought I'd be quoting from the Geeks, but....
In physics, mass (from Greek μᾶζα "barley cake, lump (of dough)")
doh!!!!!
ps please don't cut and paste the lesson, not from his words....
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Re: CNG - orders new Navy Corvettes from France

Postby Paphitis » Sat May 25, 2013 12:05 am

Thanks BigOz!
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Re: CNG - orders new Navy Corvettes from France

Postby Paphitis » Sat May 25, 2013 12:08 am

Oceanside50 wrote:The impression that we all have is that the USA would step in if war breaks out but they're stepping in to save the Turks from an embarrassing defeat ...that's the main concern of the usa


The main conern for the US would be to prevent Greece and Turkey to go to war for obvious reasons!

The biggest embarrassment of all would fall on the US rather than Greece or Turkey!
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Re: CNG - orders new Navy Corvettes from France

Postby Kikapu » Sat May 25, 2013 12:26 am

bigOz wrote:This is in response to all the "plastic" Greek heroes and the dreaming GC idiots existing on tyhis island. They have been getting their arse kicked ever since 600 years ago, from Byzantine times and have learned nothing!

To start with someone who has been having serious problems with "getting real" over the past 7-8 years of posting in this forum, if you have any "personal" problems with TCs and believe the likes of you are in majority in South, then WHY THE FLUCK DON'T YOU PICK UP YOUR STATE OF THE ART WEAPONRY YOU HAVE BEEN PURCHASING AND KICK THE ASS OUT OF THE TURKISH ARMY OUT OF CYPRUS? The likes of you contemplated getting back İstanbul (old Byzantine "Constantinople") for 500 years - and look what happened! :lol:

As for the illiterate, ill informed Byzantine peasant B25, I do not hide myself like cowards (as you do) using a different name in every other forum. THERE IS only ONE "BIG OZ" and this is the man! Hokey cockey? You think you worry me by telling me what I teach? Well let me tell you more about what I teach besides Turkish language, Business Studies, Chemistry, Physics, Maths, IT, C++ and Excel VBA programming, Flying (qualified flight instructor), Professional Web and Graphic design... and couple of smaller less important things as they come up! SO, what have you been teaching lately peasant?

TAI - Turkish Aviation Industry has been producing F16 for the past 20 years. 70% of the aircraft structure is home produced. Almost 2 years ago, USA gave the "source code" software for the "arms load up" of the fighter - something only USA had in possession. Everyone else who buys F16 for their air force can only load up missiles and weaponry built by US (that fits the code). Turkey can and has been developing her own missiles and war heads over the past 2 years as well as manufacturing laser guided or heat/infra red seeking missiles. What it means is, Turkey does not depend on the most expensive parts of a fighter aircraft (i.e. the arms) on US anymore! Turkish F16s already have advanced home made guided missiles that can knock out your pretty Exocet missiles all all the way from Turkish coast! Turkish air force numbers well over 1000 fighter aircraft around 300 of which are F16s. Many countries such as saudi Arabia, Pakistan and Egypt have been buying F16 fighters and main parts from Turkey for almost a decade now! Below is the link for you - learn Turkish and read!
http://www.sabah.com.tr/Ekonomi/2011/11 ... izin-verdi

Turkish/Italian started the joint manufacture of an attack helicopter T29 Atak already started and tested! Moves forward, backwards, upside down, double somersaults, most advanced electronics and weaponry! enjoy the video;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jOvfMGWXIQw

Someone probably forgot to tell you that exocets are only "anti-ship" missiles! They need to be fired from Aircraft/helicopter or sea vessels. The problem is, you corvettes have to first sail around the island to the North coast before they can even fire an exocet at a Turkish warship. The chances of that happening are ZERO, since they would be sunk by the air force before they can even make it half-way! Assuming they do make it, there are
http://combatfleetoftheworld.blogspot.c ... -navy.html (the content is 3 years old additions to navy since then)

28 warships,
16 destroyers and frigates,
16 Corvettes, + 5 Milgem Stealth Corvettes newly manufactured (All Turkish made) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7D7ZWqAeHhI
20 submarines,
47 attack missile crafts, (Turkish made)
7 patrol boats (Turkish made)
23 mine hunters (Turkish made)
55 amphibious landing crafts
5 logistic transport ships (Turkish made)
120 patrol boats
40+ helicopters being carried by some of these ships.
How many exocets did you say you have? :lol:
6 Type 214 submarines (hydrogen cell and electric powered) are currently being built in Turkey with 80% of the structure and electronics manufactured locally. http://combatfleetoftheworld.blogspot.c ... -navy.html

As a bonus, here is a video of the Turkish made Tank Fırtına T155
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ezMrMv-m4zI

And last but not least here is a video of the Turkish manufactured remote control spy drone "ANKA", started production early this year;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wMMh6GSRmdI

I will not bother with all the Turkish manufactured armoured vehicles, mortars, heavy guns and machine guns they have been exporting over the past 20 years! - look for them online and you will learn!

SO WHO IS HIGH ON HASHISH you peasant? Your mind is so fucked up you cannot see the end of your own nose. You and Get Real carry on with your war cries just because your beggar of a government threw some money away, and you will see the rest of Cyprus
become a Turkish estate! Get Real is right, things are a lot different now than what they were in 1974 when Turkey did not even have any proper landing craft or fighter jets.

A final piece of information: Only 6 aircraft were lost (the 2 super sabres were reported twice!) of which 3 were lost (not shot down) for other reasons during action and 3 were actually shot down by anti aircraft fire/missiles. Considering these aircraft had almost no electronic equipment and were old ex-US fighters of basic construction - not too much of a loss for conquering 1/3 of the island! Have you any idea of the Brirtish losses during the tiny Falkland islands war? Not to mention 80,000 Ottoman Turks getting killed capturing the island in 1571. You think Turks are afraid of death? Listen reh palikari! When it comes to fighting a Turk YOU WILL ALWAYS LOSE, more so now then ever. So sit down and shut up :evil:


It is amazing to me that with everything that is "Turkish made" in the above list given by BigOz, that there isn't a Turkish built brand car in Turkey yet. Surely it can't be that difficult to build a car whose concept has been around for over 100 years, specially when close to million cars are built in Turkey each year by foreign companies with Turkish workforce. So what's the problem? The problem is, ALL the main part of the cars assembled in Turkey come from abroad, ALL the parts that are technologically advanced require highly skilled minds and workforce to produce them, which does not seem to be available in Turkey, at great numbers anyway. I think many of the so called "Turkish Made" items listed above fall in the same category as the car example given here.

This is an old article from a year ago. An interesting read.

The best Turkish airplane ever made!

In the last couple of years, the Turkish press has been proudly covering every piece of news that says “we will make our own fighter jets, aircraft carrier, drones, tanks, air defense systems, helicopters, missiles with a range of 2,500 kilometers and even a spaceship!”

Sadly the news about the “best Turkish airplane ever made” went largely unnoticed a couple of months ago. In an international championship with 249 contestants from 83 countries, the Turkish team - racing with an all-Turkish airplane - won the team trophy in the Red Bull Paper Airplane finals: in the “longest airtime” competition!

But, paper planes or fighter jets, I think that the top aerospace priority for the Turkish military should be to be able to keep its aircraft away from enemy fire and un-downed!

July/04/2012

http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/the-be ... sCatID=398
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Re: CNG - orders new Navy Corvettes from France

Postby Paphitis » Sat May 25, 2013 12:43 am

bigOz wrote:Sorry Paphitis! I just logged on again because I am not really a very regular attender of such forums (not good for my health) - they are only exciting if taken in small portions :)

You asked too many question and I shall explain to you the load factors on this occasion as shortly as possible. First you must familiarise yourself with some of the terminology.

Mass (m) is the amount of matter in a substance and it does not change in value no matter where you are in the universe.
Weight is the vertical force exerted on a body due to earth’s gravity (or the gravity of the planet you are on). It is given as:
mg = mass x acceleration (due to gravity - downwards).

Lift (L) is the force on the body and wings of an aircraft, opposing the downwards “weight” (W) force. When in level flight lift force must equal to the weight. Since the mass is same for both the weight and the lift on the aircraft, the lift force acceleration upwards must also be equal and opposite to the gravitational (g) acceleration downwards.

The Load Factor (G) also known as G force, is the ratio of the lift force to weight, given by the formula G = L / W

Any increase in the speed of an aircraft also increases the lift force due to aircraft’s aeronautic wing and body design.

A steep turn is any angle of turn higher than 30 degrees.

When you enter a steep turn, the wings are at an angle to the ground. The weight (W) stays the same because it is always vertically down, The lift force however, acts on the wings (at right angles to wing surface). If you visualise an aircraft in a turn with the weight force vertically down and the lift on wings at right angles to the wing surface, you can see that the two forces will no longer be opposite. Only the vertical component of the Lift force will counter the Weight. This component is only a fraction of the actual force acting perpendicular to the wing surface, hence the speed of the aircraft must be increased to increase total lift where the vertical component can compensate for the weight.

When the speed and hence the lift increases, the acceleration in a turn also increases and this will clearly be more than the gravitational (g). It is this acceleration towards the centre of the circle of the turn that pushes you in your seat and you feel a pressure on your backside (as well as internal organs).
During straight and level, the since lift (L) and weight (W) are equal (and opposite); G = L/W = 1

In steep turns, depending on the angle of the turn, the lift will need to be higher, at an increasing rate to compensate for the weight and prevent a stall. This is achieved by increasing the power and hence the speed of the aircraft. The bigger the angle of turn the more power and speed is required to counter balance the weight. NOTE: This is same as saying “the stall speed will be higher at greater angles of turn” (ie the aircraft will stall at a higher speed than it would have done during straight and level flight).
The standard load factors (G) for different angles of turn are given by:

0 bank G = 1
30 bank G = 1.15
45 bank G = 1.4
60 bank G = 2.0
75 bank G = 4.0

Based on above information you can work out the safe speed for the turn by calculating the new increased stall speed (Vsa) using the normal stall speed value (Vs) and the Load Factor (N). The formula for working that out is:

Vsa = Vs x √N If your normal stall speed (Vs) is 40 knots then the above values will tell you that:

0 degrees bank G = 1 Vs = 40 knots
30 " bank G = 1.15 Vsa = 40 x √1.15 = 43 knots
45 " bank G = 1.4 Vsa = 40 x √1.4 = 47 knots
60 " bank G = 2.0 Vsa = 40 x √2.0 = 57 knots
75 " bank G = 4.0 Vsa = 40 x √4.0 = 80 knots

Usually extra power is also required to oppose the increased drag at those angles. But usually an increase of 100-200 rpm would do for a 45 degree bank.

IMPORTANT: You must remember that the aircraft’s speed in a turn should be at least 10 knots above the stall speeds worked out above.


BigOz,

Yes I can cutand paste all that from the internet or get it from a text book as well!

Now just imagine that I am Granny May taking a few flying lessons. Can you break all of this down and explain it in your words? I need tge simple version.

And what causes Adverse Yaw? What causes it?

Good night all!
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Re: CNG - orders new Navy Corvettes from France

Postby Oceanside50 » Sat May 25, 2013 4:53 am

Paphitis wrote:
Oceanside50 wrote:The impression that we all have is that the USA would step in if war breaks out but they're stepping in to save the Turks from an embarrassing defeat ...that's the main concern of the usa


The main conern for the US would be to prevent Greece and Turkey to go to war for obvious reasons!

The biggest embarrassment of all would fall on the US rather than Greece or Turkey!


Greece/Cyprus were perceived to be the losers in 74 and Turkey the winner. Turkey losing would mean an internal implosion and a huge embarrassment for NATO and the second largest army in NATO , while it faced the Soviets on its borders. In other words, what deterrence would Turkey have on the Soviets southern border when their navy was in the bottom of the Med. and their army's incpetence shown up by the CNG..and Eldyk
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