Cyprus-Forum.com

[Oceanside50]

claret you say you have researched and reached your conclusions, you really need to address the following simple questions, are the 2 sides equal? are they weighted the same when trying to solve the Cyprus issue? can one side proceed without the other?

Once you have grapsed this very basic principle only the will you make any progress, remember you cannot ask one side to throw away their rights as given to them by international agreements, you have to persuade that party that whats being offerred is far better and then allow them to decide as we did with the AP.

The two sides are equal in law, numerically they are not. Proportional representation comes to mind.
The Zurich agreements offered a 70 - 30 % split, I think that would be still valid?

you clearly are oblivious to the cyprus problem. you are unaware of the murataga dochni atlilar and sandallilar massacres. what is even more disturbing is that not one gc felt courages enought to mention it. be that as it may, clearly suggesting proportional representation shows how little you understand gcs.

we have two choices either two different states or bbf. there is no other protection from the gcs.

get it? i suspect not.

continue in your ignorance.

Lordo, since you claim that the only protection you have from Gc's is for the Tc taking over half the government, what would give the Gc protection from the TC bringing in Turkey again?

[repulsewarrior]

...a most refreshing read:

http://www.kypros.org/Constitution/English/index.htm

Appendix C, D, E, are most interesting to me.



...for those of you who want to read it in short form.

1960 Constitution of the Republic of Cyprus

The Constitution, summarized below, entered into force on 16 August 1960, when Cyprus became an independent republic.



The State of Cyprus



The State of Cyprus is an independent sovereign Republic with a presidential regime.

The Greek community comprises all citizens of the Republic who are of Greek origin and whose mother tongue is Greek or who share the Greek cultural traditions or who are members of the Greek Orthodox Church.

The Turkish community comprises all citizens of the Republic who are of Turkish origin and whose mother tongue is Turkish or who share the Turkish cultural traditions or who are Muslims.

The official languages of the Republic are Greek and Turkish. The Republic shall have its own flag of neutral design and colour, chosen jointly by the President and the Vice-President of the Republic. The Greek and Turkish communities shall have the right to celebrate respectively the Greek and Turkish national holidays.

The President and The Vice-President

Executive power is vested in the President and the Vice-President, who are members of the Greek and Turkish Communities respectively, and are elected by their respective communities to hold office for five years. The President of the Republic, as Head of State represents the Republic in all its official functions; signs the credentials of diplomatic envoys, and receives the credentials of the foreign diplomatic envoys; signs the credentials of delegates for negotiation of international treaties, conventions or other agreements; signs the letter relating to the transmission of the instruments of ratification of any international treaties, conventions, or agreements; confers the honours of the Republic. The Vice-President of the Republic, as Vice-Head of the State, has the right to be present at all official functions; at the presentation of the credentials of foreign diplomatic envoys; to recommend to the President the conferment of honours on members of the Turkish Community, which recommendation the President shall accept unless there are grave reasons to the contrary.

The election of the President and the Vice-President of the Republic shall be direct, by universal suffrage and secret ballot, and shall, except in the case of a by-election, take place of the same day but separately. The office of the President and of the Vice-President shall be incompatible with that of a Minister or of a Representative or of a member of a Communal Chamber or of a member of any municipal council including a Mayor or a member of the armed or security forces of the Republic or with a public or municipal office.

The President and Vice-President of the Republic are invested by the House of Representatives. The President and the Vice-President of the Republic, in order to ensure the executive power, shall have a Council of Ministers composed of seven Greek Ministers and three Turkish Ministers. [It was stipulated that one of the three major ministries, Defence, Finance, or Foreign Affairs, should be held by a Turkish Minister.]

The Ministers shall be designated respectively by the President and the Vice-President of the Republic who shall appoint them by an instrument signed by them both. The President convenes and presides over the meetings of the Council of Ministers, while the Vice- President may ask the President to convene the Council and may take part in the discussions.

The decisions of the Council of Ministers shall be taken by an absolute majority and shall, unless the right of final veto or return is exercised by the President or the Vice-President of the Republic or both, be promulgated immediately by them. The executive power exercised by the President and the Vice-President of the Republic conjointly consists of:
determining the design and colour of the flag;
creation or establishment of honours;
appointment of the members of the Council of Ministers;
promulgation by publication of the decisions of the Council of Ministers;
promulgation or publication of any law or decision passed by the House of Representatives;
appointments and termination of appointments as in Articles provided; (g) institution of compulsory military service;
reduction or increase of the security forces;
exercise of the prerogative of mercy in capital cases;
remission, suspension, and commutation of sentences;
right of references to the Supreme Constitutional Court and Publication of the Court Decisions; and
address of messages to the House of Representatives.

The executive powers which may be exercised separately by the President and Vice-President include: designation and termination of appointment of Greek and Turkish Ministers respectively; the right of final veto on Council decisions and on laws concerning foreign affairs, defence or security; the publication of the communal laws and decisions of the Greek and Turkish Communal Chambers respectively; the right of recourse to the Supreme Constitutional Court; the prerogative of mercy in capital cases; and addressing messages to the House of Representatives.

The Council of Ministers

The Council of Ministers shall exercise executive power in all matters, other than those which are within the competence of a Communal Chamber, including the following: general direction and control of the government of the Republic, and the general direction of general policy;
foreign affairs, defence and security;
foreign affairs, defence, and security;
co-ordination and supervision of all public services;
supervision and disposition of property belonging to the Republic;
consideration of Bills to be introduced to the House of Representatives by a Minister;
making of any order or regulation for carrying into effect of any law as provided by such law; and
consideration of the Budget of the Republic to be introduced to the House of Representatives.

The House of Representatives

The legislative power of the Republic shall be exercised by the House of Representatives in all matters except those expressly reserved to the Communal Chambers.

The number of Representatives shall be 50, subject to alteration by a re- solution of the House of Representatives carried by a majority comprising two-thirds of the Representatives elected by the Greek Community and two- thirds of the Representatives elected by the Turkish Community.

Out of the number of Representatives, 70% shall be elected by the Greek Community and 30% by the Turkish Community separately from amongst their numbers respectively, and, in the case of a contested election, by universal suffrage and by direct and secret ballot held on the same day.

The term of office of the House of Representatives shall be for a period of five years.

The President of the House of Representatives shall be a Greek, and shall be elected by the Representatives elected by the Greek Community; and the Vice-President shall be a Turk and shall be elected by the Representatives elected by the Turkish Community.

The Communal Chambers

The Greek and Turkish Communities respectively shall elect from amongst their own members a Communal Chamber. The Communal Chambers shall, in relation to their respective Community, have competence to exercise legislative power solely with regard to the following:
all religious, educational, cultural, and teaching matters;
personal status; composition and instances of courts dealing with civil disputes relating to personal status and to religious matters; and
imposition of personal taxes and fees on members of their respective Community in order to provide for their respective needs.

The Public Service and The Armed Forces

The public service shall be composed as to 70% of Greeks and as to 30% of Turks.

The Republic shall have an army of 2,000 men, of whom 60% shall be Greeks and 40% shall be of Turks.

The security forces of the Republic shall consist of the police and gendarmerie and shall have a contingent of 2,000 men. The forces shall be composed as to 70% of Greeks and as to 30% of Turks.

http://www.tc-america.org/issues-information/1960-constitution-of-the-republic-of-cyprus-87.htm

http://www.tornaritislaw.com/home/the-social-and-economic-rights-under-the-law-of-the-republic-of-cyprus/...something interesting, but dry.

...my question remains, what about the Communal Chamber? (and what is wrong with a Greek Constituency, or Cypriot Constituencies?)

cheers.

[Maximus]

The Greek community comprises all citizens of the Republic who are of Greek origin and whose mother tongue is Greek or who share the Greek cultural traditions or who are members of the Greek Orthodox Church.

The Turkish community comprises all citizens of the Republic who are of Turkish origin and whose mother tongue is Turkish or who share the Turkish cultural traditions or who are Muslims.

The official languages of the Republic are Greek and Turkish. The Republic shall have its own flag of neutral design and colour, chosen jointly by the President and the Vice-President of the Republic. The Greek and Turkish communities shall have the right to celebrate respectively the Greek and Turkish national holidays.

This excerpt suggest that the first community is Greek, the second community is Turkish and a (third) neutral identity was manufactured calling them both Cypriots so that Cyprus would not be ceded to Greece.

This constitution was a botch job, drafted to serve the interests of others.

[RichardB]

I’ve got young Cobbett’s phone number somewhere…

Out it goes for just $9.99*


* +17% vat, +20% Troika tax, +15% Save Greece tax

I've got GRs ....bidding starts at 0.99c with no buy it now!!!!

[Lordo]

I’ve got young Cobbett’s phone number somewhere…

Out it goes for just $9.99*


* +17% vat, +20% Troika tax, +15% Save Greece tax

I've got GRs ....bidding starts at 0.99c with no buy it now!!!!

i bid 1.0 cents for both.

[Get Real!]

I’ve got young Cobbett’s phone number somewhere…

Out it goes for just $9.99*


* +17% vat, +20% Troika tax, +15% Save Greece tax

I've got GRs ....bidding starts at 0.99c with no buy it now!!!!

I’m offering yours for free so that someone may finally call and shatter the silence. (of the lambs? )

[repulsewarrior]

NO, it does not have my signature on it.

Maybe not yours personally but it has your elected leaders signature on it which makes it valid, we all know its your ultimate goal to erase these rights in order to get the upper hand and control of the whole island, but you need to understand we will never all you to do this you have to compromise and that compromise between enosis and taksim is BBF with politcial equality of the 2 states.

it was marked through blackmail! It does not matter which way you dice it, its still tyranny and you are not righteous. Not even today.

Turkey invaded, ethnically cleansed the northern third of Cyprus, stole the property and business's of hundreds of thousands and has been planting settlers on the island ever since. Is there an agreement to go along with this, with anyone's signature on it? NO. Just breaches of many international agreements and peace treaty's.

Its sick, your sick VP.

well said Maximus, the so called "TRNC" and its foundation is not the starting point in History for the Cyprus Problem. nor is it the so called "Peace Operation" deemed by the rest of the world Illegal, and an Invasion. The Cyprus Problem evolves from the Intolerance of Nationalists to the power of States, the rights in Supremacy, those of Individuals, who by their own choice are identified as Persons. where better to see the results of this Ignorance but in Turkey, where Ataturk's vision was reduced to an ism, by a cult "Turkish" enough of him as Kemal.

vp, two equal partners, yes, one Cyprus above them; this is Bicommunal.

vp, anything when it comes to Jurisdictional Territory, it depends on the number of Cypriot Constituencies and their needs Geographically, there is one Cyprus, Sovereignty is not an issue; this is Bizonal.

...do not confuse the Power of a Republic to defend your Individual Rights, with your need for Liberty, it is the Federation of Cypriots which can satisfy that.

[Viewpoint]

NO, it does not have my signature on it.

Maybe not yours personally but it has your elected leaders signature on it which makes it valid, we all know its your ultimate goal to erase these rights in order to get the upper hand and control of the whole island, but you need to understand we will never all you to do this you have to compromise and that compromise between enosis and taksim is BBF with politcial equality of the 2 states.

it was marked through blackmail! It does not matter which way you dice it, its still tyranny and you are not righteous. Not even today.

Turkey invaded, ethnically cleansed the northern third of Cyprus, stole the property and business's of hundreds of thousands and has been planting settlers on the island ever since. Is there an agreement to go along with this, with anyone's signature on it? NO. Just breaches of many international agreements and peace treaty's.

Its sick, your sick VP.

No you are sick for not facing reality you know I am right, this agreement has your communities signature on it and is binding like it or not we are equal partners, you cannot erase this right without out say so. Do you support a BBF with political equality of the 2 states?

[Maximus]

how can it be binding, your in blatant violation of it (1) you declared your so called independence already (2) you cant cherry pick which part of what applies, when and where it suits you (3). You and the majority of your people dont seem to recognize anything that is grounded in reality and continue to demonstrate that you are not trustworthy with a mind of the modern world. (4) your political equality of the two states fixes nothing and does not remove the psychological border that exists (5) you fix nothing generally and are the embodiment of the problem. (6)

I want as little to do with people that think like you as possible. You and people like you should be resettled in Turkey and just leave Cyprus in peace.

[Lordo]

claret you say you have researched and reached your conclusions, you really need to address the following simple questions, are the 2 sides equal? are they weighted the same when trying to solve the Cyprus issue? can one side proceed without the other?

Once you have grapsed this very basic principle only the will you make any progress, remember you cannot ask one side to throw away their rights as given to them by international agreements, you have to persuade that party that whats being offerred is far better and then allow them to decide as we did with the AP.

The two sides are equal in law, numerically they are not. Proportional representation comes to mind.
The Zurich agreements offered a 70 - 30 % split, I think that would be still valid?

you clearly are oblivious to the cyprus problem. you are unaware of the murataga dochni atlilar and sandallilar massacres. what is even more disturbing is that not one gc felt courages enought to mention it. be that as it may, clearly suggesting proportional representation shows how little you understand gcs.

we have two choices either two different states or bbf. there is no other protection from the gcs.

get it? i suspect not.

continue in your ignorance.

Lordo, since you claim that the only protection you have from Gc's is for the Tc taking over half the government, what would give the Gc protection from the TC bringing in Turkey again?

thats very easily done. just dont invite 10,000 greek soldiers and dont kill innocent tcs and dump in the wells. if you can do that you have nothing to fear.
and applying eu rules the presidency rotates in equal time. we are all are we not.