Cyprus-Forum.com

[Softliner]

Hi, I am posting from Germany and I really like this forum. Hopefully I can get some answers here.

I am studying currently “peace and conflict studies” and therefor have a special interest in the cyprus conflict / problem. Actually there exists a lot of information about cyprus. Not only in this forum, which is definitely to big to read all the interesting points, but also in literature and especially in science.

Main topics today contain mostly:

- The status of Cyprus in the EU as a divided island, which is occupied by the most important new wanne-be member
- The Annan Plan and the referendum from 2004
- In general: The possibility to resolv the problem with external efforts (from EU, UN, and other third parties)

Personally I am interested in the opinions of the people of cyprus. Of course, this forum is a good location to get an idea of some of these opinions. But it is neither organised nor scholarly demonstrated.

I am searching for Informations, mainly polls, surveys and other scientific literature about these issues.

1. Are there any direct contacts and problem resolving efforts on the state level; between the TRNZ and the ROC?

2. Are there efforts from the civil society? Partnerships between communities, organisations or other groups?

3. Are there (strong) nationalist movements against the other ethnicity?

4. Would people live and work on “the other side”, in a mixed village, marriage a turkish/greek cypriot etc.?

I do not have an opinion about the conflict in the way that I want to blame somebody. But as a European I like the Idea of a strong, rich (in ideas, culture and human potential) and multicultural European Union; without any conflicts in and around these Union. Furthermore, the Union should be a driving force in solving conflicts (mostly without military power) all over the world.

A paeceful Cyprus should be part and modell of this idea of the EU.


This post is just a request. I hope that I did not hurt anybody.
Sorry for my ordinary english.
I am looking forward for any reply on this post.

Thanks.

[Piratis]

1. Are there any direct contacts and problem resolving efforts on the state level; between the TRNZ and the ROC?

No because the so called "TRNC" is a pseudo puppet state created by Turkey in the occupied part of Republic of Cyprus and apart from Turkey no other country recognizes a second state in Cyprus other than RoC. Furthermore the leadership of this "state" not only is directly controlled by Turkey but about the 30-40% of the voters are not Turkish Cypriots but Turkish settlers that were brought from Turkey after their invasion.
The contacts are done between the Greek Cypriot community and the Turkish Cypriot community. However unfortunately Turkish Cypriots have no power to deviate from the directions of Turkey.

2. Are there efforts from the civil society? Partnerships between communities, organisations or other groups?

Yes there are but nothing very big at the momment.

3. Are there (strong) nationalist movements against the other ethnicity?

There are but they are very limited in their numbers. The ultra nationalist group of Greeks is Hrisi Avgi and for the Turks the Grey Wolves.

4. Would people live and work on “the other side”, in a mixed village, marriage a turkish/greek cypriot etc.?

A small number of Greek Cypriots continues to live in the occupied areas. These are the people that didn't abandon their homes during the invasion. Unfortunately the illegal occupying regime has forced most of them out and now there are mostly some old Greek Cypriots still living in the occupied areas. The occupation regime doesn't allow any other Greek Cypriots to settle there.
There are some Turkish Cypriots that live in RoC controlled areas and their number has been increasing the last few years. Many Turkish Cypriots cross the line every day to go to work. Greek Cypriots cross the line only as visitors.

I do not have an opinion about the conflict in the way that I want to blame somebody. But as a European I like the Idea of a strong, rich (in ideas, culture and human potential) and multicultural European Union; without any conflicts in and around these Union. Furthermore, the Union should be a driving force in solving conflicts (mostly without military power) all over the world.

A peaceful Cyprus should be part and modell of this idea of the EU.

Unfortunately my friend, while Europe is uniting leaving behind its bad past so Germans, French, British etc can live united in peace, in Cyprus the interests of the big ones demand the maintenance of conflict between the two Cypriot communities.

P.S. Did you know that according to the Annan plan I, as a Greek Cypriot, would be allowed to settle freely in any part of EU except the north part of my own country where my ancestors have been living for 3500 years? If you are making a study on the problem and the Annan plan I would suggest to have a look at the plan itself. Then only you will realize that "unification" was only the way this plan was marketed but it was in fact the legalization of partition and the ethnic cleansing that was performed against Greek Cypriots.

[bg_turk]

1. Are there any direct contacts and problem resolving efforts on the state level; between the TRNZ and the ROC?

The Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus is a sovereign parliamentary democracy so far only recognized by Turkey and the Nakhichevan Autonomous Republic. The RoC currently has a hardliner president who refuses dialogue with the Turkish Cypriot leadership, and follows a policy of complete isolation for the TCs.
Nevertheless some progressive politicians in the south keep links with turkish cypriots.

2. Are there efforts from the civil society? Partnerships between communities, organisations or other groups?

I agree with Piratis's answer.

3. Are there (strong) nationalist movements against the other ethnicity?

There is a very strong natinalist movements in both parts of the island. In the past the North had a very obstructive and hardliner President Rauf Denktash, but has now elected a very liberal President. The South of the island unfortunately is still very nationalistic and anti-turkish rhetoric is very common. Recent court cases have absolved a GC ultranationalist of attacks against a TC civilian, thus putting into question the credibility of the RoC and its ability to protect citizens of turkish origin.
There is a very strong bitterness due to the hostilities of the past and it will take many years before the trust between the two communities is fully restored, but the majority of people are trying to overcome those.

4. Would people live and work on “the other side”, in a mixed village, marriage a turkish/greek cypriot etc.?

As Piratis said there is a small greek cypriot minority in the North. The North has a Greek school where greek cypriots can learn their own mother tongue and are not obliged to learn Turkish even though they live in a predominantly turkish state. Unfortunately as far as I know this is only an elementary school, and most citizens of TRNC with greek origin have to go to the South to pursue their higher education in Greek. If they choose to study turkish they can obviously do it in the TRNC.

The TRNC does not obstruct the freedom of movement of GCs, who are free to visit its territories. But the property issue and the question of the return of internally displaced people is a complex subject, which can only be resolved as a result of a comprehensive solution. Unfortunately the abnormalities in the island continue due to the greek rejection of the Annan plan and the obstructionist attitude of their current president who refuses any negotiation with the turkish cypriots.

There are a few mixed villages in the buffer zone. In general greeks and turks avoid intermariage. In the south the church has a very strong say and it does not tolerate interethnic marriage as long as the other partner is of another faith. In fact, a TC was unable to marry his romanian fiancee under the pretext that Section 34 of the Marriage Act did not provide the possibility for a Turkish Cypriot professing the Muslim faith to contract a civil marriage.

[Piratis]

The Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus is a sovereign parliamentary democracy so far only recognized by Turkey and the Nakhichevan Autonomous Republic.

Democracy? how can they have democracy when they forced the majority of the people of that region out and they imported in their place some foreigners (Turkish settlers)? Thats how you realize democracy?

The RoC currently has a hardliner president who refuses dialogue with the Turkish Cypriot leadership, and follows a policy of complete isolation for the TCs.

Our president does not refuse dialogue. However the TC leadership repeatedly said that they will not discuss anything other than the Annan partition plan. TCs choose to be isolated by choosing illegality over legality. Now they want the freedom to sell and exploit what they have illegally stole from the Greek Cypriots. Obviously this can not be accepted.

There is a very strong natinalist movements in both parts of the island. In the past the North had a very obstructive and hardliner President Rauf Denktash, but has now elected a very liberal President

Both TC leaders support partition. There is very little difference between them in the case of the Cyprus problem. This is maybe because who takes the decisions is Turkey, and the TC leader is simply the puppet.

The South of the island unfortunately is still very nationalistic and anti-turkish rhetoric is very common. Recent court cases have absolved a GC ultranationalist of attacks against a TC civilian, thus putting into question the credibility of the RoC and its ability to protect citizens of turkish origin.

TCs have killed GCs by shooting or beating them to death. The TCs that did this were not even prosecuted by the pseudo state. As I said the ones that do such actions are a small minority and for sure those ultra nationalists are not more among Greek Cypriots as you want to present it.

But the property issue and the question of the return of internally displaced people is a complex subject, which can only be resolved as a result of a comprehensive solution.

It is a complex matter because the TCs refuse to accept legality and universally accepted principles such as human rights and democracy. If they accepted these then it would not be complex at all.

In fact, a TC was unable to marry his romanian fiancee under the pretext that Section 34 of the Marriage Act did not provide the possibility for a Turkish Cypriot professing the Muslim faith to contract a civil marriage.

This law was the same for Greek Cypriots since religious marriage was required in the past. Actually one of the reasons that such laws existed was so the Turkish Cypriot minority would not be assimilated by the Greek Cypriot majority. This is what the TCs wanted so you can not blame the GCs for this now.

[bg_turk]

TCs have killed GCs by shooting or beating them to death. The TCs that did this were not even prosecuted by the pseudo state. As I said the ones that do such actions are a small minority and for sure those ultra nationalists are not more among Greek Cypriots as you want to present it.

While I condemn both incidents, I would like to note that there is a crucial difference between the two cases. The GC was killed while attempting to bring down the flag of the TRNC thus undermining its soveregnity and territorial intergrity, whereas in the case of TCs, they were only law-abiding tourists in the South, and did not undermine the RoC in anyway other than being turkish. I am not aware of any case where a GCs, visiting the TRNC and abiding by its laws has been assaulted.

It is a complex matter because the TCs refuse to accept legality and universally accepted principles such as human rights and democracy. If they accepted these then it would not be complex at all.

Not exactly. A full return to legality is impossible because the RoC undermines the rights of its citizens of turkish origin. None of the internally displaced TCs have so far been able to return to their ancestral homes, which have been expopreiated albeit allegedly on a temporary bassis, to be used by Greek Cypriots under the so called "law of necessity" which is unconstitutional and discriminatory.

[Main_Source]

Most of the TC land from before the invasion is now used by GC refugees from the north. So until the Turkish government sends home a load of settlers...TC wont be able to use their land (which the RoC recognises as their land, unlike the 'TRNC' who beleive in spoils of war) because the GC refugees from the north will have no where to go.

BG Turk...how many times have you been to Cyprus? Do you come to this sight because you have affinity with Cyprus or simple because you are brainwashed to be anti-Greek?

[cypezokyli]

where to you study in germany?

[Eric dayi]

The Cyprus problem started in 1963 by the Greeks and Greek Cypriots who tried to steal Turkish Cypriot owned land and to also genocide the Turkish Cypriots because the Turkish Cypriots refused ENOSIS (union with Greece) and to be forced to become Greeks and be in the same situation as the Turks living in Greece who are not allowed to call themselves Turks.

If it wasn't for the expansionism dreams of the Greeks and Greek Cypriots we could still be living together in peace according to the 1960 agreement.

The ones who are now complaining are the thieves (Greeks and G/Cypriots) who tried to steal the possessions of the Turkish Cypriots.

[Piratis]

Eric, you are lier, plain and simple.
Greek Cypriots never tried to steal TC land as you claim or perform genocide. These are nothing more than lies and you say them because you have nothing else to say to excuse the illegality and the ethnic cleansing you performed against us.

Between 1963 and until 1968 about the same number of Greek Cypriots and Turkish Cypriots were killed in the intercommunal conflict. (some 100s on each site). However during the invasion alone 6000 Greek Cypriot died, and way way less Turkish Cypriots.

In 1963 the conflict didn't start because Greek Cypriots wanted "enosis" or anything like that. It started when Greek Cypriots had proposed changes to the constidutuion that would make the it more fair. Except if you will argue that it was fair that the 18% Turkish Cypriot minority should have 30% of govermental positions etc? However the Turkish Cypriots not only didn't discuss this proposals, but they decided to have the conflict with GCs. Indeed the GCs have a big share of responsibility in the conflict of 1963-68. However how can you blame the Greek Cypriots for everything because of those 5 years somewhere in history, when the Turks in Cyprus were oppressing us for centuries, and when the illegal occupation continues for 31 years already even at the very momment we speak?

In our whole history in Cyprus you were oppressing us and refusing to us our human and democratic rights (and you still are) and according to you all these are excused because Greek Cypriots had more share of a blame in a 5 year conflict??

These are cheap excuses my friend. Why don't you accept the application of legallity and human rights finally? Why do you insisit on your undemocratic and full with human rights violation tradition? Isn't it time to stop the excuses and change for the better?

As far as Turks in Greece goes, what about Greeks in Turkey? Actually if you didn't massacre the Greeks in Turkey, Turkey would have never excised in the first place.

[Tony-4497]

More lies.. Eric:

The Cyprus problem started in 1963 by the Greeks and Greek Cypriots

Turks tend to refer to intercommunal violence in Cyprus in the 60s in order to justify the invasion and continuing illegal occupation of half of Cyprus.

What Turks conveniently neglect to mention is how it all started. Turkey had stated the aim of partition of Cyprus ("taksim") decades before the violence started, as it considered Cyprus a key strategic location for her defence and expanionist plans (many statements by Turkish leaders support this - which I will provide if anyone doubts this).

Turkey set up and armed the TMT terrorist group in 1957, 3 years before the 1960 agreements, and BEFORE ANY intercommunal violence took place. The stated aim of TMT was to prove that Greek and Turkish Cypriots could not co-exist and thus achieve partition.

The FIRST EVER intercommunal killings were those of 8 Gr-Cypriots in Kondemenos, by TMT, in 1958. I CHALLENGE Eric or any other Turk here to contradict this with an earlier example. Denktash, a leader of TMT and founder and former "President" of "TRNC", admitted that TMT BOMBED TURKISH CYPRIOTS and then blamed it on Gr-Cypriots to cause violence. Also, TMT KILLED MANY TURKISH CYPRIOTS who would not follow her orders to isolate themselves from Gr-Cypriots, including many journalists.

The following is from the Tr-Cypriot newspaper Africa (12.02.03):

"Subtitle: How clashes started
After a bomb against the Information Office of the Turkish Consulate, on 12 June 1958 British security forces arrested 8 Greek Cypriots at Kondemenos village and transported them to the nearest Turkish Cypriot village Gunyeli, about 10 kilometres, and left them free. By order of TMT these Greek Cypriots were massacred by Turkish Cypriots. This was the first incident whereby blood was shed between the two communities. This massacre has been committed with the intention that the Greek Cypriots will retaliate. Behind this provocative murders there were people whom Denktas called "some of our friends". Mr Denktas admitted during statements to a British television that TMT was responsible for the bombing incident".