Cyprus-Forum.com

[Piratis]

1. Is there any movement? Something like getting over everlasting points of view (which are not able to argument in an online forum?).

There is very little movement right now. The TCs that have voted "yes" to the Annan partition plan are unwilling to discuss anything else beyond that plan and now all their efforts are put into the recognition of their illegal pseudo state. The Greek Cypriots have submitted some changes to the Annan plan that would make this plan acceptable for Greek Cypriots but they have been ignored by Turkish Cypriots and Turkey.

2. Are there some people just looking for any statement where they can post their own (radical) opinion?

Everybody posts their opinion. However the opinion of some is in accordance with international law, human rights and democracy, while the opinion of some others disregards international law, insists that human right violations are necessary and that racist separation is something good. The difference between the two groups: One group is the weak one having justice and legality as its only weapon, while the other side has the power of the army and the support of the USA/UK and they have the luxury to demand and enforce things beyond legality and human rights.

In the last presidential elections in the Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus, the pro-partitionist, uncompromising and hardliner President Denktash has been ousted, and President Talat who is much more liberal and pro-solution has been elected in his place.

Both Talat and Denctash are partitionists that support the violation of human rights of Greek Cypriots, they insist on the illegality enforced by Turkey and they promote the recognition of their pseudo state. Absolutely nothing changed.

Fearing that their ex-leader Clerides had made to many concessions, Greek Cypriots elected the hardliner nationalist Papadopolous. He actively campaigned against the Annan unification plan and despite the fact that the failure of the last plan was due to his intransigence, he still refuses any dialogue with Turkish Cypriots.

The polls have shown long long before Papadopoulos was elected that the great majority of Greek Cypriots rejected the Annan partition plan. Papadopoulos is not a hardliner at all. Does insistence on democracy and human rights makes somebody a hardliner? Is Talat willing to allow Greek Cypriots to have their basic human rights?

The Annan plan was a partition plan, not a unification plan. The Americans and the Turks rushed to force on us this partition plan just before Cyprus entered the EU so Turkey would not have this problem in her accession process.

[bg_turk]

There is very little movement right now. The TCs that have voted "yes" to the Annan partition plan are unwilling to discuss anything else beyond that plan and now all their efforts are put into the recognition of their illegal pseudo state.

This is simply not true. Talat has never put the Annan Plan as a precondition of meeting Papadoupolos. He does not seek any kind of recognition either, as he has repeatedly expressed willingness to meet not in his capacity as the President of the Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus, but as the leader of the Turkish Cypriot community, a role which is recognized by the UN. Yet all his calls for dialogue have fallen on deaf ears, and Papadopolous has flatly rejected any meeting.
Talat keen to meet Papadopoulos

Everybody posts their opinion. However the opinion of some is in accordance with international law, human rights and democracy, while the opinion of some others disregards international law, insists that human right violations are necessary and that racist separation is something good. The difference between the two groups: One group is the weak one having justice and legality as its only weapon, while the other side has the power of the army and the support of the USA/UK and they have the luxury to demand and enforce things beyond legality and human rights.

In fact I could not find a better example than the above statement to your question :
are there some people just looking for any statement where they can post their own (radical) opinion?
Piratis and many others insist on a strictly legalistic approach to the political problems of cyprus. They keep on reciting their rhetoric of full return to legality for the Greek Cypriots, while they close their eyes to the fact that their government denies TCs the same rights the demand. They seek legality only when it suits their political interests, and ignore legality when it doesnt.

[Main_Source]

This is simply not true. Talat has never put the Annan Plan as a precondition of meeting Papadoupolos. He does not seek any kind of recognition either, as he has repeatedly expressed willingness to meet not in his capacity as the President of the Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus, but as the leader of the Turkish Cypriot community, a role which is recognized by the UN. Yet all his calls for dialogue have fallen on deaf ears, and Papadopolous has flatly rejected any meeting.
Talat keen to meet Papadopoulos

and where do you get your information from BGTURK...or is this all more heresay? Its a FACT that when Tpap offered measures to help improve unity, Talat flatly refused unless he gained semi-recognition of the north? Is this a man who is SO pro-solutionist for the unity in Cyprus? or pro-soloution for soley for Turkey's interests?

In fact I could not find a better example than the above statement to your question :
are there some people just looking for any statement where they can post their own (radical) opinion?
Piratis and many others insist on a strictly legalistic approach to the political problems of cyprus. They keep on reciting their rhetoric of full return to legality for the Greek Cypriots, while they close their eyes to the fact that their government denies TCs the same rights the demand. They seek legality only when it suits their political interests, and ignore legality when it doesnt.

and which rights does the RoC ask for Gc that they refuse to grant for Tc?....again, give us detail.

[bg_turk]

and which rights does the RoC ask for Gc that they refuse to grant for Tc?....again, give us detail.

ECHR cases:

Selim v. Cyprus (no. 47293/99) (right to marry and found a family), (right to an effective remedy) and (prohibition of discrimination).
Aziz v. Cyprus (no. 69949/01) (right to free elections) and (prohibition of discrimination)

Additionally Turkish Cypriots are denies their properties in the south. Here is a list of Cypriots of Turkish origin whose properties have not been returned and in some cases permamently expropriated under various pretexts by the RoC:

Arif Mustafa
Huseyin Helvacioglu
Mustafa Ibrahim Musfata
Esat Mustafa

The first 3 are based on info in Cyprus Mail:

Arif Mustafa

Minister hits back over airport land claim
|Main issue| Sunday, June 5, 2005, by Elias Hazou

A landmark case last year, involving the return of a house to Turkish Cypriot Arif Mustafa, was put on hold when the Supreme Court suspended an initial order to return the property to its original owner. Though the court accepted Mustafa’s claim as rightful, it postponed execution of the order when the Attorney-general appealed the decision. The issue had deep political undertones, as the house is currently used by Greek Cypriot refugees.

Huseyin Helvacioglu

This man owns Larnaca Airport
|Main issue| Saturday, June 4, 2005, by Simon Bahceli

Huseyin Helvacioglu, a refugee from Larnaca now living in Kyrenia, told the bi-communal weekly publication Dialogue, “They built Larnaca airport without my permission.

“Now I hear they are entering a second stage of building. I won’t let this happen. The land belongs to my brother and myself, and we want it back”.

It was unclear yesterday whether Helvacioglu had applied to begin legal proceedings against the Republic, but if he does, he will become the first Turkish Cypriot living in the north to seek compensation for properties expropriated by the state.

....
He is seeking £100 million in compensation for unauthorized exploitation of his property, citing the landmark case of Greek Cypriot Titina Loizidou who was awarded one million dollars for her house in Kyrenia.

But Interior Minister Andreas Christou, though confirming Helvacioglu’s demands, downplayed the possibility of the case going to court in the Republic, and ruled out any compensation before a settlement of the political issue on the island.

Mustafa Ibrahim Musfata

Mustafa considers next move
|Main issue| Tuesday, October 12, 2004, by George Psyllides

"The owner, 86-year-old Mustafa Ibrahim Mustafa, has been trying to claim his property, a total of 200 donums of land and two houses since 2001.
He filed lawsuits and lodged a complaint with Ombudswoman Eliana Nicolaou who suggested in December 2001 that Ibrahim Mustafa should be given £48,300 (in 1998 values) plus nine per cent interest since then.
The state also appropriated another piece of the elderly man’s land worth £137,000 but again he got nothing in compensation."

Esat Mustafa
http://www.hri.org/news/cyprus/tcpr/200 ... .tcpr.html
[01] Vroishia people demand cantonal arrangement

Esat Mustafa further claimed that in 1964 their village was expropriated by the Cyprus government and systematically destroyed by the Department of Forestry and that they are in the process of recourse to the European Court of Human Rights in order to get back their village.

Esat Mustafa, who is living in London, said that next week they will file a compensation demand through the Cyprus High Commission in London to the Minister of Interior Andreas Christou. Esat Mustafa said that they will demand from the Cyprus government to rebuild their destroyed village according to the EU standards with all its infrastructure and roads and return it to them.

He said that they hold the title deed of the village which has a 300-years of history.

[Main_Source]

ECHR cases:

Selim v. Cyprus (no. 47293/99) (right to marry and found a family), (right to an effective remedy) and (prohibition of discrimination).
Aziz v. Cyprus (no. 69949/01) (right to free elections) and (prohibition of discrimination)

This is not a violation against one group or another...it is a violation against Christians and Muslims because it prevents of inter religious marriage. Something which im sure is supported in the north too...seeing as they are scared about TC/ GC intermarriages and the eventuallaty of TC numbers in Cyprus falling off. Therefore, there is no point of you giving this example.

Additionally Turkish Cypriots are denies their properties in the south. Here is a list of Cypriots of Turkish origin whose properties have not been returned and in some cases permamently expropriated under various pretexts by the RoC:


Arif Mustafa
Huseyin Helvacioglu
Mustafa Ibrahim Musfata
Esat Mustafa

Like I mentioned before, until Turkey does the right thing and expells the illegal settlers it shipped over, then the housing case is going to be a complcated one. If a TC wants there house in the south back, which is being used by GC refugees from the north...then the only way the TC is going to get there house back is if the GC refugee can get THEIR house back in the north....but what if the GC refugee's house in the north is occupied by Turkish settlers? Where will the GC refugee go. Turkey created this mess and its Turkey's duty to fix it. Again, your argument here has no logic. At least RoC said that Arif Mustafa had the right to gain his property back and STILL ADMITS to it being his property...unlike Talat and Turkey does with GC, who recognise the bent title deeds given out after the invasion.

As for the case with the airport land, well I hope the guy takes RoC to the ECHR if he thinks he has such a strong case. He is perfectly entitled to do so.

Again, the East Mustafa case has the right to go the ECHR too...dont think RoC can do anything with that untill the whole of Cyprus is unified though.

BGTURK, again, you use no logic in your arguments...jsut total ignorance.

[bg_turk]

BGTURK, again, you use no logic in your arguments...jsut total ignorance.

Para ver la verdad es necesario abrir los ojos.

[Main_Source]

very clever...u can use Babelfish translator.

[bg_turk]

si si... what difference does it make if I use spanish or english, doesn't make the smallest difference when I am arguing with a person like yourself.

[Piratis]

Piratis and many others insist on a strictly legalistic approach to the political problems of cyprus. They keep on reciting their rhetoric of full return to legality for the Greek Cypriots, while they close their eyes to the fact that their government denies TCs the same rights the demand. They seek legality only when it suits their political interests, and ignore legality when it doesnt.

You are lying my friend. We want the 100% of legal, democratic and human rights for both Greek and Turkish Cypriots.

What is legal is the RoC constitution as agreed in 1960. We accepted it, do you? Also we would be more than glad if this constitution is harmonized 100% with the EU aquis. Do you?

What are human rights are here: http://www.un.org/Overview/rights.html We want all people of Cyprus irrespective of their race,religion etc. to have the 100% of their rights. Do you?

As far as democracy goes we accept the system of ANY democratic country in EU. Do you?

You do not, because you insist on illegality, you insist on human right violations, and you insist on an undemocratic system that exists nowhere else in the whole world.

When turkey stops insisting that the solution should be based on something undemocratic and against human rights, and they accept the above universally accepted principles then a solution can be found.

[bg_turk]

Am I lying when I say your government continues to deny legality to TCs while demanding it for GCs?