Cyprus-Forum.com

[Tim Drayton]

If you study the history and workings of the body known as the 'Tote' in the UK, (the 'Horserace Totalisator Board' in full), you will see that a state-owned gambling company can be successful. It was set up in 1928 by Winston Churchill to operate tote betting at racecourses, and in 1972 it also moved into running a chain of betting shops. It did both very successfully, and I worked in their betting shops for a while and saw that it was every bit as successful as its private sector competitors. It was sold to a private company in 2011.

You can guarantee success if you make the rules and skew them in your favour...

You have to question though if it offered the very best deal for punters or if an 'open market' with a level playing field would have been better...?

You also have to question why the government were so keen to get rid of it for (if I remember rightly) quite a small return if it was so successful...?

With the betting shops there was an open market, the Tote was just one chain of shops among several. At racecourses, you could always bet with the bookmakers. The fact remains that it was a success, and in my opinion the government was very shortsighted in selling what was effectively a goose that lay the golden eggs.

I'm not an expert on gambling to be honest....

But I thought The Tote had a monopoly on some bit of the market...?

I know a fair bit about it, partially thanks to a misspent youth! The Tote had the monopoly on running totalisator betting at racecourses. However, in 1972 it made the bold step of building up a chain of betting shops as a normal competitor in a line of business that was entirely run by the private sector and without changing any of the rules - and succeeded.

[Paphitis]

The State should shut down all these gambling establishments CG or tax them like anything.

I do not think or beleive it is right for someone to prosper on other people's misery.

As far as I am concerned, Casinos should be owned and run by the Government or there should be no Casinos in Cyprus and those dodgy gambling houses should be controlled and pulled into line because they are the most hideous and disgusting of establishments controlled by seedy Russian creeps and profiteers who probably have underworld links and the establishments lack clasz!

It seems we have an ideology based disagreement. I don't buy your argument at all so we should leave it there!

[Paphitis]

Yes I know insider trading is illegal and yet it happens every day in Australia and I have received a couple of hot tips myself from people in the know. Insider trading happens, we all know this. But it is not what we know but what we can prove!

Sorry but i don't understand what you're saying nor its relevance.

I asked you a simple question and you answered it which means you must have more integrity and honour than I. I told you what I would do with a very heavy heart which means I have less integrity and honour! If only it is that simple!

All I know CG is that it is easy to get on the high horse on a forum but it is not so easy when dealing with such conundrums for real. didn't you gloat about removing your deposits from Cyprus? If you were tipped of, would you leave your money? It is more honest and honourable to do so!

[cyprusgrump]

Yes J know insider trading is illegal and yet it halpens every day in Austrakia and have received a couple of hot tips myself from people in the know. Insider trading happens, we all know this. But it is not what we know but what we can prove!

Sorry but i don't understand what you're saying nor its relevance.

I asked you a simple question and you answered it which means you must have more integrity and honour than I. I told you what I would do with a very heavy heart which means I have less integrity and honour! If only it is that simple!

All I know CG is that it is easy to get on the high horse on a forum but it is not so easy when dealing with such conundrums for real. didn't yiu gloat about remo ing your deposits from Cyprus? If you were tipped of, wkuld you leave your money? It is more honest and honourable to do so!

Sorry...

If you don't understand that politicians should not be above the law and subject to the same rules as everybody else there is little point discussing anything with you....

I certainly would not trust politicians (who clearly cannot be trusted) to run a chain of multi-billion €uro casinos...

[B25]

from whereas no matter what we may think of Cypriot Politicians, I will still trust them to not do intentional harm to Cypriots.

Yeah, we have seen them in action when they were all moving their money abroad, including the President and his immediate family, that's how much they care about the Cypriot. Where as they safe guarded them selves, the leave charities, insurance companies, local authorities and even the compensation paid the the children of the Helios disaster cut or lost. F Cypriot Politicians mono yia ton lemon tous, gmt.

I think that is a really unfair dig at Cypriot Politicians B25.

You could replace Cypriot with any nationality you like, and I guarantee that 99% percent would do the exact same thing.

Would you leave a lazy 20 million in Cypriot Banks if you knew what was coming?

Given you have just questioned CG honor for taking out his money and then telling him the HONORABLE thing to was to leave it there, you have lost me. Cypriot politicians are as described, they ARE above the law in Cyprus and thats why we are in this mess today.
I would not piss on them if they were on fire, because i'm sure as hell they would not either.

[Paphitis]

Politicians are not above the law. Now it doesn't really matter what we know about the outflow of their money from Cyprus because it is irrelevant! It is what can be proven by prosecutors and I don't think any politician will admit to anything which means we can't prosecute!

[Paphitis]

from whereas no matter what we may think of Cypriot Politicians, I will still trust them to not do intentional harm to Cypriots.

Yeah, we have seen them in action when they were all moving their money abroad, including the President and his immediate family, that's how much they care about the Cypriot. Where as they safe guarded them selves, the leave charities, insurance companies, local authorities and even the compensation paid the the children of the Helios disaster cut or lost. F Cypriot Politicians mono yia ton lemon tous, gmt.

I think that is a really unfair dig at Cypriot Politicians B25.

You could replace Cypriot with any nationality you like, and I guarantee that 99% percent would do the exact same thing.

Would you leave a lazy 20 million in Cypriot Banks if you knew what was coming?

Given you have just questioned CG honor for taking out his money and then telling him the HONORABLE thing to was to leave it there, you have lost me. Cypriot politicians are as described, they ARE above the law in Cyprus and thats why we are in this mess today.
I would not piss on them if they were on fire, because i'm sure as hell they would not either.

I didn't question CG's honour. I am sure he is a stand up person in fact!

B25, politicians are above the law everywhere. It really is no different in OZ or US. They have power and power corrupts.

The main difference between US, Oz pollies and Cypriot pollies is not in their integrity as individuals but in their competencies as leaders for the good of their respective countries.

[cyprusgrump]

Politicians are not above the law. Now it doesn't really matter what we know about the outflow of their money from Cyprus because it is irrelevant! It is what can be proven by prosecutors and I don't think any politician will admit to anything which means we can't prosecute!

They clearly are... and you agree that should be the case... and you confirm that you would do the same in their shoes....

[Paphitis]

Politicians are not above the law. Now it doesn't really matter what we know about the outflow of their money from Cyprus because it is irrelevant! It is what can be proven by prosecutors and I don't think any politician will admit to anything which means we can't prosecute!

They clearly are... and you agree that should be the case... and you confirm that you would do the same in their shoes....

No I do not agree that this should be the case.

Yes I would probably do the same if I was in their shoes. Still, it can't be proven that they had knowledge when they withdrew their money and they certainly won't admit to it which then means it is difficult to do anything about it.

I am a pragmatic realist CG, and I simply just tell it the way I feel it is with heart on sleeve.

I think most people would remove their money. It is just the way it is. It is Human Nature.

You said you would leave it which means your kids would disinherit 12 million.

[cyprusgrump]

Politicians are not above the law. Now it doesn't really matter what we know about the outflow of their money from Cyprus because it is irrelevant! It is what can be proven by prosecutors and I don't think any politician will admit to anything which means we can't prosecute!

They clearly are... and you agree that should be the case... and you confirm that you would do the same in their shoes....

No I do not agree that this should be the case.

Yes I would probably do the same if I was in their shoes. Still, it can't be proven that they had knowledge when they withdrew their money and they certainly won't admit to it which then means it is difficult to do anything about it.

I am a pragmatic realist CG, and I simply just tell it the way I feel it is with heart on sleeve.

I think most people would remove their money. It is just the way it is. It is Human Nature.

You said you would leave it which means your kids would disinherit 12 million.

If I had been elected to a position of power...

...and if I had top make difficult decisions for the benefit of the country... like a haircut on savings....

...then I would bloody well expect to suffer the same consequences as those that elected me....

It is not as if politicians live life on the breadline is it...?

Quite frankly, my kids could afford to lose 12 million if I had millions more....