Cyprus-Forum.com

[Tim Drayton]

If you study the history and workings of the body known as the 'Tote' in the UK, (the 'Horserace Totalisator Board' in full), you will see that a state-owned gambling company can be successful. It was set up in 1928 by Winston Churchill to operate tote betting at racecourses, and in 1972 it also moved into running a chain of betting shops. It did both very successfully, and I worked in their betting shops for a while and saw that it was every bit as successful as its private sector competitors. It was sold to a private company in 2011.

You can guarantee success if you make the rules and skew them in your favour...

You have to question though if it offered the very best deal for punters or if an 'open market' with a level playing field would have been better...?

You also have to question why the government were so keen to get rid of it for (if I remember rightly) quite a small return if it was so successful...?

With the betting shops there was an open market, the Tote was just one chain of shops among several. At racecourses, you could always bet with the bookmakers. The fact remains that it was a success, and in my opinion the government was very shortsighted in selling what was effectively a goose that lay the golden eggs.

[Tim Drayton]

PS, the Tote was sold for £265m.

[Paphitis]

CG,

I do not subscribe to your theories because I have seen State run Casinos and gambling work reall well, and our Casinos are among the best in the world. I don't believe in privatisation for the sake of it but understand that in certain cases (Cyprus Airways) it is necessary.

I also have much more faith in the RoC running Cypriot Casinos in a regulated manner and think it is only right, because at the end of the day it will be the RoC that will need to pick up the pieces when pensioners lose their pension to gambling addiction and can't put food on the table or buy their medicines.

This money from gambling should be made by the State for the benefit of the people and not by greedy private enterprise or the creepy Casino underworld or some Russian Obligarch.

Casinos can be good and they will work well as a Private Enterprise, but the RoC should tax the profits by 75% because I foresee an adverse cost to the community as well, and the State has an obligation to protect vulnerable people from gambling addiction and I am certain Private Enterprise will not care who they take money from, whereas no matter what we may think of Cypriot Politicians, I will still trust them to not do intentional harm to Cypriots.

It is not about being a Nanny State, but the State has an obligation to protect the elderly because from my experience, gambling is a real issue in this age bracket, but I seriously doubt that this age bracket will take up online gambling. Make it easy for them and they will gamble away.

It is also a dangerous thing because as a Cypriot I know how appealing gambling is to us.

[cyprusgrump]

If you study the history and workings of the body known as the 'Tote' in the UK, (the 'Horserace Totalisator Board' in full), you will see that a state-owned gambling company can be successful. It was set up in 1928 by Winston Churchill to operate tote betting at racecourses, and in 1972 it also moved into running a chain of betting shops. It did both very successfully, and I worked in their betting shops for a while and saw that it was every bit as successful as its private sector competitors. It was sold to a private company in 2011.

You can guarantee success if you make the rules and skew them in your favour...

You have to question though if it offered the very best deal for punters or if an 'open market' with a level playing field would have been better...?

You also have to question why the government were so keen to get rid of it for (if I remember rightly) quite a small return if it was so successful...?

With the betting shops there was an open market, the Tote was just one chain of shops among several. At racecourses, you could always bet with the bookmakers. The fact remains that it was a success, and in my opinion the government was very shortsighted in selling what was effectively a goose that lay the golden eggs.

I'm not an expert on gambling to be honest....

But I thought The Tote had a monopoly on some bit of the market...?

[B25]

from whereas no matter what we may think of Cypriot Politicians, I will still trust them to not do intentional harm to Cypriots.

Yeah, we have seen them in action when they were all moving their money abroad, including the President and his immediate family, that's how much they care about the Cypriot. Where as they safe guarded them selves, the leave charities, insurance companies, local authorities and even the compensation paid the the children of the Helios disaster cut or lost. F Cypriot Politicians mono yia ton lemon tous, gmt.

[Paphitis]

from whereas no matter what we may think of Cypriot Politicians, I will still trust them to not do intentional harm to Cypriots.

Yeah, we have seen them in action when they were all moving their money abroad, including the President and his immediate family, that's how much they care about the Cypriot. Where as they safe guarded them selves, the leave charities, insurance companies, local authorities and even the compensation paid the the children of the Helios disaster cut or lost. F Cypriot Politicians mono yia ton lemon tous, gmt.

I think that is a really unfair dig at Cypriot Politicians B25.

You could replace Cypriot with any nationality you like, and I guarantee that 99% percent would do the exact same thing.

Would you leave a lazy 20 million in Cypriot Banks if you knew what was coming?

[cyprusgrump]

CG,

I do not dubscribe to your theories because I have seen State run Casinos and gambling work reall well and our Casinos are some of the best in tge world. I don't believe in privatisation for the sake of it but understand that in certain cases (Cyprus Airways) it is necessary.

I also have much more faith in the RoC running Cypriot Casinos in a regulated manner and think it is only right because at the end of the day it will be the RoC that will need to pick up the pieces when pensioners loose their pension to gambling addiction and can't put food on the table or buy their medicines.

This money from gambling should be made by tge State for the benefit of the people and not by greedy private enterprise or the creepy Casino underworld or some Russian Obligarch.

Casinos can be good and it will work well as a Private Enterprise but the RoC should tax the profits by 75% because i foresee an adverse cost to the community as well, and the State has an obligation to protect vulnerable people from gambling addiction and I am certain Private Enterprise will not care who they take money from whereas no matter what we may think of Cypriot Politicians, I will still trust them to not do intentional harm to Cypriots.

If people are addicted to gambling they will gamble - see also drugs...

I can point you to a number of illegal gambling operations in my village alone... as I said, an addict will get his fix no matter if it is a backstreet drug deal or an illegal bet...

You would see the government set up casinos which were highly restricted (how?) and highly taxed to the point where they were unattractive to the rest of the population... How would the state protect the vulnerable...? Every time you enter the casino you show your bank balance, your outgoings, loans, debts, etc. Give details of your dependants...? Then the casino would presumably tell you that you can spend €50 on the roulette table and no more...? What stops you going to another casino and spending another €50 that the state has decided you cannot afford...? What stops you instead going on-line and betting that way...? or over to the Occupied Areas and betting there where there are no restrictions...?

The state has no obligation to protect vulnerable people - where do you draw the line on this...?

Should the state control cake shops to protect the obese?

Should the state control all alcohol outlets to protect alcoholics?

They already have ridiculous rules in the UK that prevent people buying more than one pack of pain killers to protect 'the vulnerable' that might buy 10 packs and kill themselves with them... But of course 'the vulnerable' who are intent on suicide merely go to the shop next door and buy another pack and then to the next shop up the road...

Casinos can work in Cyprus - but not with the model you describe... And to be honest, I don't want the government to be spending MY taxes on such a thing....

[cyprusgrump]

from whereas no matter what we may think of Cypriot Politicians, I will still trust them to not do intentional harm to Cypriots.

Yeah, we have seen them in action when they were all moving their money abroad, including the President and his immediate family, that's how much they care about the Cypriot. Where as they safe guarded them selves, the leave charities, insurance companies, local authorities and even the compensation paid the the children of the Helios disaster cut or lost. F Cypriot Politicians mono yia ton lemon tous, gmt.

I think that is a really unfair dig at Cypriot Politicians B25.

You could replace Cypriot with any nationality you like, and I guarantee that 99% percent would do the exact same thing.

Would you leave a lazy 20 million in Cypriot Banks if you knew what was coming?

Well yes, that would be the right and honourable thing to do....

Or do you think there should be one rule for them and another for us mere taxpayers...?

[Paphitis]

from whereas no matter what we may think of Cypriot Politicians, I will still trust them to not do intentional harm to Cypriots.

Yeah, we have seen them in action when they were all moving their money abroad, including the President and his immediate family, that's how much they care about the Cypriot. Where as they safe guarded them selves, the leave charities, insurance companies, local authorities and even the compensation paid the the children of the Helios disaster cut or lost. F Cypriot Politicians mono yia ton lemon tous, gmt.

I think that is a really unfair dig at Cypriot Politicians B25.

You could replace Cypriot with any nationality you like, and I guarantee that 99% percent would do the exact same thing.

Would you leave a lazy 20 million in Cypriot Banks if you knew what was coming?

Well yes, that would be the right and honourable thing to do....

Or do you think there should be one rule for them and another for us mere taxpayers...?

Well you are the good samaritan. Right and honourable thing to do you say.

Unfortunately CG, I do not believe you. This flies in the the face to what is Human Nature.

Personally, I love Cyprus and its people very much but if I was in this position I would have to admit, with some regret and a guilty conscious, that just maybe I would not leave the money hanging around.

I believe I am right and honourable for being honest!

[cyprusgrump]

from whereas no matter what we may think of Cypriot Politicians, I will still trust them to not do intentional harm to Cypriots.

Yeah, we have seen them in action when they were all moving their money abroad, including the President and his immediate family, that's how much they care about the Cypriot. Where as they safe guarded them selves, the leave charities, insurance companies, local authorities and even the compensation paid the the children of the Helios disaster cut or lost. F Cypriot Politicians mono yia ton lemon tous, gmt.

I think that is a really unfair dig at Cypriot Politicians B25.

You could replace Cypriot with any nationality you like, and I guarantee that 99% percent would do the exact same thing.

Would you leave a lazy 20 million in Cypriot Banks if you knew what was coming?

Well yes, that would be the right and honourable thing to do....

Or do you think there should be one rule for them and another for us mere taxpayers...?

Well you are the good samaritan. Right and honourable thing to do you say.

Unfortunately CG, I do not believe you. This flies in the the face to what is Human Nature.

Personally, I love Cyprus and its people very much but if I was in this position I would have to admit, with some regret and a guilty conscious, that just maybe I would not leave the money hanging around.

I believe I am right and honourable for being honest!

If these people imposed the haircut on ordinary taxpayers and savers while excluding themselves they should be strung up...

You know that 'Insider Trading' on the stock market is illegal don't you...?

This is the very worst kind of insider trading - they imposed the haircut on the rest of us while excluding themselves...

It is completely outrageous...

It is the problem with politics today... Politicians who are supposed to represent US see themselves as a special class who are above normal rules and laws...

And you want these people to run casinos just in case some nasty people get in control of them???