Cyprus-Forum.com

[Get Real!]

If you read up, Icelands had its ups and downs.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iceland#History
and before you berate me this is just an observation and I am in no way putting down Cyprus.

Please move to Iceland and setup an igloo there so that we may rid of your whinging once and for all.

I hope our government will hear your plight and even pay for your air ticket!

[Mik]

If you read up, Icelands had its ups and downs.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iceland#History
and before you berate me this is just an observation and I am in no way putting down Cyprus.

Please move to Iceland and setup an igloo there so that we may rid of your whinging once and for all.

I hope our government will hear your plight and even pay for your air ticket!

Knob off Numbnuts! It's interesting thats all....

[Robin Hood]

Greek Island Girl said:

Absolutely give Cyprus time! In those 53 years, we had to undo 300 years of slavery under the Ottomans, then a century under suppressive British colonial rule...............etc ................................ etc .........
....................etc .......................................etc................................... Cyprus has had a lot more to contend with than Iceland and anyone who cannot see that is simply dismissively discriminatory - and has their eyes closed to the cyclical suffering Cyprus has had forced upon it.

I absolutely agree with you but really none of these events, whilst it was a brake on the country’s development, should effect the way Cyprus deals with its financial problem. What I have noticed is that many posters on this and other forums regard it as a single event, when in fact it can be divided into two different problems.

The first is the fiscal deficit where the government has been spending more than it has been receiving. The reasons are simply living beyond their means. The public sector was allowed to expand way beyond that which was required, with many of the civil service posts given to relatives and promotion based on length of service rather than merit. The Government gave in to the Unions who have become far too powerful, just like they did in the UK in the 60’s and 70’s and allowed the wage/benefits bill for the public sector to expand out of control. When this happens the Unions then start acting against the country’s interests in preference to their members. And many similar problems all of which can be solved 'in house'.

The Govt. allowed the tourist industry to decline because nobody looked ahead and made plans to ensure that this annual source of income was maintained and nurtured to provide a good product in a competitive market. It was all short term gains and that was a mistake. Again with property it was allowed to develop unchecked. Building standards don’t seem to exist or were/are out of date and of course there was the farce of the banks making loans to developers but allowing them to sell on what the banks were holding as collateral.

So, these causes can be put down to poor governance and incompetence, because the top jobs were preordained and given to the Cyprus Elite and their Families and in many of those cases the person doing the job was incompetent but ‘connections’ meant there was nobody to get rid of them. So this is purely something Cyprus has to address and put right.

The second part of the problem is the banking fiasco. I do not put all the blame for this on any individuals because all they were doing is what banks all over the Globe are doing and it is only a matter of time before the whole banking/financial system collapses anyway. It was just that Cyprus was caught out by putting so much fiat money into Greek Bonds which then nose dived. (The Global Banking problem is the practice of ‘fractional reserve Banking’ where what you deposit into the bank is then used by the bank to multiply and produce enormous amounts of money out of thin air (fiat money), which they then use to gamble with. You may have heard of derivatives? When that ‘product’ goes belly up, the amount of money required to bail out that banking crisis will be over 20 times the total annual GDP of the whole planet and that runs into $ quadrillions!)

The part of the banking problem that does lie with Cyprus is the lending to developers and allowing the loans to be rolled up whilst the developer sold the land to buyers and pocketed the proceeds instead of paying off the loan. By the time the banks got around to chasing up the loan, the developer had disappeared or gone bankrupt and the bank was stuck with the problem of masses of land/property that had been sold on, and the loan not paid off ................... to me that is criminal.

The solution for Cyprus in the simplest of terms is:

1. Reduce expenditure.
2. Increase income.

Now ..... how to do that is another story, which is why I found Appel’s post interesting because Cyprus could lead the way by remaining in the EU but ditching the Euro and splitting the banking sector into Retail banks and casino banks. Protect and ring fence the first and cast the second adrift and leave it to sort out its own problems but no bail outs. The Cyprus Central bank would 'print' its own money (real money) and would not need to get it from the ECB as it does now.

It is the investment banks (Casino Banks) that are the problem as this is where the collapse will come. The problem with splitting the banks if introduced on a global scale is that, those that run the banking and financial system would become ‘poor’ (relatively speaking) overnight because fractional reserve banking would disappear, the countries would revert to their own currencies and the private banks means to create fortunes out of nothing would evaporate. But on a small scale as it was in Iceland and could be in Cyprus, it is possible because it is much easier to control.

Iceland’s banking problems were no different to those in Cyprus. If I were Anastasiades I would have people in Iceland picking their brains and putting together a plan and then implementing it, not going begging to the EU Eurocrats in Brussels.

[Get Real!]

The Govt. allowed the tourist industry to decline because nobody looked ahead and made plans to ensure that this annual source of income was maintained and nurtured to provide a good product in a competitive market. It was all short term gains and that was a mistake. Again with property it was allowed to develop unchecked. Building standards don’t seem to exist or were/are out of date and of course there was the farce of the banks making loans to developers but allowing them to sell on what the banks were holding as collateral.

You are fantasizing again!

Cyprus’ annual tourist arrivals have been a very steady 2.1 to 2.3 million for the last 15 years. Absolutely nothing has changed in this department!

I have an entire thread on this matter with figures from the dept of statistics so instead of manufacturing baloney and pretending to be knowledgeable, why don’t you go and research instead of making a total dick of your self?

The two things that daft Brits like you complain the most about (tourism and housing) are the two things that actually had NOTHING to do with the country’s current predicament.

On yer bike to Iceland!

[Get Real!]

All these years the daft Brits thought that their draft beer and egg & chips consumption in Paphos was holding this country together, completely oblivious of Cyprus’ massive banking industry and now all of a sudden they’ve all become banking & finance experts on the Cyprus Mail’s comment section!

[cyprusgrump]

The part of the banking problem that does lie with Cyprus is the lending to developers and allowing the loans to be rolled up whilst the developer sold the land to buyers and pocketed the proceeds instead of paying off the loan. By the time the banks got around to chasing up the loan, the developer had disappeared or gone bankrupt and the bank was stuck with the problem of masses of land/property that had been sold on, and the loan not paid off ................... to me that is criminal.

I was just talking to a mate of mine in this situation...

He bought his house 12 years ago, solicitor dis all the 'searches' and everything...

Turned out the bank held a mortgage on the place...

Developer has gone bust and since died..

The bank chooses not to chase the guarantor of the mortgage (the developer's children) and instead expects my friend to pay off the mortgage and 15 years of interest which he simply cannot afford to do...

So he is living in a place that he bought and yet doesn't own... he has spent thousands chasing this through the courts for ten years...

And the bank owns a property which is not maintained and in its current condition will never be able to be sold...

The Cyprus courts have been completely ineffective in resolving the situation...

Criminal indeed...

[Robin Hood]

GET REAL:

Cyprus’ annual tourist arrivals have been a very steady 2.1 to 2.3 million for the last 15 years. Absolutely nothing has changed in this department!

You are a gullible fool! How do CTO calculate the number of tourist ...... they count the number of arrivals so, any couple that lives here, that has a non-Cypriot passport but goes back to the UK/Germany/France/Greece etc say three time a year, are counted as six tourist arrivals and it is this sort of ‘calculation’ that idiots like you believe.

The two things that daft Brits like you complain the most about (tourism and housing) are the two things that actually had NOTHING to do with the country’s current predicament.

How do you manage to breath with your head stuck firmly up your ass? With the now devastated Banking sector these two were the ONLY other sources of income that kept this island going. With banking, tourism and construction all in terminal decline .............. you still think they have nothing to do with the present situation! The only thing on the increase is unemployment, poverty and bankruptcies! Jesus ..... you really are one dumb SOB.

................ completely oblivious of Cyprus’ massive banking industry.

In your dreams! What planet are you from ...... don’t you read the papers? The depositors that were warned made sure their money was in a safe place before the ‘haircut’, hence the country has to find even more money to recapitalise the banks. Almost everyone I know and most of them are Cypriot, are drawing out their money as fast as they can and to the limit. Nobody but a complete dick head would leave a cent more in the banks here in Cyprus than they needed to. Your ‘massive’ banking sector is now a shadow of what it was and before long they will be even more insignificant.

I seem to remember some time ago you were proclaiming that the millions coming into the country every year in the way of ex-pat pensions also had no effect on the country’s finances?

Wind your neck in GR you really are a delusional fool.

[Get Real!]

You are a gullible fool! How do CTO calculate the number of tourist ...... they count the number of arrivals so, any couple that lives here, that has a non-Cypriot passport but goes back to the UK/Germany/France/Greece etc say three time a year, are counted as six tourist arrivals and it is this sort of ‘calculation’ that idiots like you believe.

Even if Cyprus was unable to calculate her tourist arrivals correctly by foolishly doing what you're suggesting (and what a daft assumption it is too), how does that justify your previous assertion that the tourist industry has declined when it hasn’t?

With the now devastated Banking sector these two were the ONLY other sources of income that kept this island going.

Wrong again… it seems to be a recurring theme with you!

I’ve already given you elsewhere that…

Banking & Finance: 33% of GDP

Tourism: 8% of GDP

…but that only amounts to 41% so where’s the rest of the money coming from because we still need to cover an additional 59% and it can’t possibly be the Paphos villas!

Here’s a clue for you… doo-doo……..doo-doo (not a choo-choo train)

And here’s another… tak-tak….tak-tak…tak-tak

I seem to remember some time ago you were proclaiming that the millions coming into the country every year in the way of ex-pat pensions also had no effect on the country’s finances?

Oh I’m sure the Cyprus banks must’ve been overwhelmed by the 2-3 million pounds in pension money arriving from the UK to add to their stash of 90 billion!

Pocket money that didn’t even sit in the bank for more than a couple days!

Now remove your dentures and go stick your head under the tap and gobble down some more of that cheap draft for your brain cells to reenergize.

[Cap]

All these years the daft Brits thought that their draft beer and egg & chips consumption in Paphos was holding this country together, completely oblivious of Cyprus’ massive banking industry and now all of a sudden they’ve all become banking & finance experts on the Cyprus Mail’s comment section!

[kurupetos]

All these years the daft Brits thought that their draft beer and egg & chips consumption in Paphos was holding this country together, completely oblivious of Cyprus’ massive banking industry and now all of a sudden they’ve all become banking & finance experts on the Cyprus Mail’s comment section!

What are you laughing at, re maimouna? You like Brits.