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Cyprus Property BOOM ...

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Re: Cyprus Property BOOM ...

Postby Paphitis » Sat Apr 20, 2013 4:57 pm

GreekIslandGirl wrote:
Milo wrote:The Cyprus Property Scandal is Still Live......

In January 2007, ... moan moan moan


Chill out, will ya?

You need to learn to take the good with the bad.

A lot of the problems were caused through choice not to pay Property Transfer Fees.


Please don't take this personally!

The individual that highlighted this issue was not referring to individuals who were avoiding Property Transfer Fees for whatever reason. By not paying these fees, then technically they do not own the property despite paying for it. Clearly, such individuals have their own stupidity to blame.

She was referring to individuals that purchased a new build, or off the plan, who paid in full and have had handover and who do not receive their Title Deed until many years after all because the developer may have a security caveat with a Bank which financed the project. I remember a few years ago, when I was buying a property, when a relative of mine in the know opened my eyes on what is possible in Cyprus and to be very weary of the pitfalls. In the end, it was they who had looked after my interests, and even negotiated prices and so forth. I was lucky to have this assistance because it is easy to presume that buying a property in Cyprus is as transparent as buying property in Australia. It might be in most cases, as my transaction a few years ago was seamless, but sadly that is not the case 100% of the time and naturally it should be.

When people highlight these kinds of things, it is NOT an attack on Cyprus. It should disturb us to hear of such things and naturally wherever there is an injustice against anyone buying a property in Cyprus, who potentially could lose their life savings as a result, then we have little choice but to view this as an injustice to all of us and an injustice to Cyprus. We should listen to the criticism, and hopefully our politicians can take some action by passing legislation to protect property buyers and to assist in making the entire process transparent. The Brits buying property in Cyprus are mostly older retired folk who have chosen to live their remaining days in Cyprus. They have by default chosen to support the RoC, and the Cypriot people. They could have purchased stolen property in the occupied if it were a case of just making money. Obviously, the majority of people have a moral standard which prevents them from being so low.

At the very least I think it is important to listen to what they have to say. Often they highlight some real issues that need to be rectified or addressed. This is an issue which the authorities need to address. People can potentially lose everything they work so hard for. No one is saying that the RoC is wrong. All they are saying is that the RoC should look at certain loop holes which some bent Developers, Lawyers and Estate Agents use to their advantage against the unweary.
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Re: Cyprus Property BOOM ...

Postby GreekIslandGirl » Sat Apr 20, 2013 11:59 pm

Anyone who denies some outsiders came to Cyprus purely for profiteering and avoided paying their property transfer tax in a timely fashion (as STUD has also verified) thus adding to the mess, does not have the interests of Cyprus at heart.

Irresponsible lawyers, opportunist developers and money-making buyers were ALL in it together.

We need to clean up the mess and it involves All of them, not just (conveniently) Cypriots!
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Re: Cyprus Property BOOM ...

Postby Paphitis » Sun Apr 21, 2013 5:27 am

No one has denied anything nor is that the issue at hand.

The issue is how some foreign holiday home buyers, which also include some Cypriots living abroad, have settled on properties by paying in full and want their deeds but can't get them for years because the Developer is not able to subdivide the plot because they use it to secure their loans. This is not a case of purchasers refusing to pay the Transfer Fees.

Such a thing can end up being very messy, and the practice is illegal elsewhere. In actual fact there is a member here who has lost thousands in legal fees and even had to pay outstanding loan amounts they are not responsible for and that is atrocious. Svetlana can tell you all about it.

People who bury their head in the sand do not have Cyprus' interests at heart.
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Re: Cyprus Property BOOM ...

Postby cyprusgrump » Sun Apr 21, 2013 7:00 am

Paphitis wrote:No one has denied anything nor is that the issue at hand.

The issue is how some foreign holiday home buyers, which also include some Cypriots living abroad, have settled on properties by paying in full and want their deeds but can't get them for years because the Developer is not able to subdivide the plot because they use it to secure their loans. This is not a case of purchasers refusing to pay the Transfer Fees.

Such a thing can end up being very messy, and the practice is illegal elsewhere. In actual fact there is a member here who has lost thousands in legal fees and even had to pay outstanding loan amounts they are not responsible for and that is atrocious. Svetlana can tell you all about it.

People who bury their head in the sand do not have Cyprus' interests at heart.


Precisely!

There are two homes in our road where the 'owners' stand to lose everything having lived in (and loved) Cyprus for more than ten years....
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Re: Cyprus Property BOOM ...

Postby Svetlana » Sun Apr 21, 2013 7:21 am

Eleven years and €33,000 on I still await my Title Deeds; I wrote to my lawyer a couple of weeks ago to ask if my plot had now been 'divisioned' - and no reply. The owner of the property next to me flew in last week and was able to inform me not only had it been - but gave me the reference number - but still I have yet to hear from the well paid Lawyers.

The problem lies with developers overextending themselves and failing to recognise - or react to - the downturn in the Market. The problem lies with Banks making unsafe loans to Developers - to obtain bonuses and profits - also failing to recognise the risk of the loan and the downturn of the Market. The problem lies with Lawyers who fail to meet expected professionl standards. The problem lies with a crazy system - not even seen in Third World countires - where, when you purchase a property you do not get the Title Deeds immediately. The problem lies with a Land Registry staff, many of whom not to apply energy or appropriateness to serving their 'clients' ie the members of the public.
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Re: Cyprus Property BOOM ...

Postby Paphitis » Sun Apr 21, 2013 7:34 am

Svetlana wrote:Eleven years and €33,000 on I still await my Title Deeds; I wrote to my lawyer a couple of weeks ago to ask if my plot had now been 'divisioned' - and no reply. The owner of the property next to me flew in last week and was able to inform me not only had it been - but gave me the reference number - but still I have yet to hear from the well paid Lawyers.

The problem lies with developers overextending themselves and failing to recognise - or react to - the downturn in the Market. The problem lies with Banks making unsafe loans to Developers - to obtain bonuses and profits - also failing to recognise the risk of the loan and the downturn of the Market. The problem lies with Lawyers who fail to meet expected professionl standards. The problem lies with a crazy system - not even seen in Third World countires - where, when you purchase a property you do not get the Title Deeds immediately. The problem lies with a Land Registry staff, many of whom not to apply energy or appropriateness to serving their 'clients' ie the members of the public.


Thank you Svetlana.
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Re: Cyprus Property BOOM ...

Postby cyprusgrump » Sun Apr 21, 2013 7:37 am

Svetlana wrote:Eleven years and €33,000 on I still await my Title Deeds; I wrote to my lawyer a couple of weeks ago to ask if my plot had now been 'divisioned' - and no reply. The owner of the property next to me flew in last week and was able to inform me not only had it been - but gave me the reference number - but still I have yet to hear from the well paid Lawyers.

The problem lies with developers overextending themselves and failing to recognise - or react to - the downturn in the Market. The problem lies with Banks making unsafe loans to Developers - to obtain bonuses and profits - also failing to recognise the risk of the loan and the downturn of the Market. The problem lies with Lawyers who fail to meet expected professionl standards. The problem lies with a crazy system - not even seen in Third World countires - where, when you purchase a property you do not get the Title Deeds immediately. The problem lies with a Land Registry staff, many of whom not to apply energy or appropriateness to serving their 'clients' ie the members of the public.


Thanks, you have summed up the whole thing very concisely....
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Re: Cyprus Property BOOM ...

Postby Oceanside50 » Sun Apr 21, 2013 8:19 am

Svetlana wrote:Eleven years and €33,000 on I still await my Title Deeds; I wrote to my lawyer a couple of weeks ago to ask if my plot had now been 'divisioned' - and no reply. The owner of the property next to me flew in last week and was able to inform me not only had it been - but gave me the reference number - but still I have yet to hear from the well paid Lawyers.

The problem lies with developers overextending themselves and failing to recognise - or react to - the downturn in the Market. The problem lies with Banks making unsafe loans to Developers - to obtain bonuses and profits - also failing to recognise the risk of the loan and the downturn of the Market. The problem lies with Lawyers who fail to meet expected professionl standards. The problem lies with a crazy system - not even seen in Third World countires - where, when you purchase a property you do not get the Title Deeds immediately. The problem lies with a Land Registry staff, many of whom not to apply energy or appropriateness to serving their 'clients' ie the members of the public.


Thanks Svetlana, and on top of everything its virtually impossible to sue any lawyer, and if you try to, it will take years upon years....the system is seriously flawed and needs to change...

The problem lies with Lawyers who fail to meet expected professionl standards.


This system hasnt changed with the times..its antiquated and based on the idea that the only retribution a lawyer will get is a bad name in the village or small town. Cyprus isnt like that anymore, foreigners don't know anyone and the small villages/towns have grown exponentially since 74.
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Re: Cyprus Property BOOM ...

Postby Milo » Sun Apr 21, 2013 9:04 am

http://cyprus-property-action-group.net/updates/

This action group sent a forty page document to the Cyprus govt in 2008 outlining all the serious failures in the property purchase system. Of course it was ignored, because of that, the CPAG took it to the EU....

Now we all know that the troika have it as part of the deal.

All this done against a system in a country that failed them, yet was initially only ordinary people purchasing homes in another country. It beggars belief that its come to this.


The draft Memo of Understanding between the Troika and Cyprus well and truly lays bare the fact that the precarious position of the banks in Cyprus is largely caused by their reckless lending in the property market and not just the exposure to Greek sovereign debt, something which has never been publicly admitted before

“However, many of the problems for the sector are home-grown and relate to over expansion in the property market as consequence of banks’ poor risk management practices.”

Furthermore, the EU Commission has also apparently convinced the other members of the Troika, the International Monetary Fund (IMF) and the European Central Bank (ECB) of this fact and the impact it causes regarding failure to transfer title deeds to the rightful owners.    Under section 5.4 on page 27:

“By [Q4-2014], eliminate the title deed issuance backlog to less than 2,000 cases of immovable property sales contracts with title deed issuance pending for more than one year. The authorities will enhance cooperation with the financial sector to ensure the swift clearing
of encumbrances on title deeds to be transferred to purchasers of immovable property, and implement guaranteed timeframes for the issuance of building (completion?) certificates and title deeds;”

“Publish quarterly progress reviews of the issuance of building and planning permits, certificates, and title deeds, as well as title deed transfers and related mortgage operations throughout the duration of the programme;”
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Re: Cyprus Property BOOM ...

Postby GreekIslandGirl » Sun Apr 21, 2013 10:20 am

Svetlana wrote:Eleven years and €33,000 on I still await my Title Deeds; I wrote to my lawyer a couple of weeks ago to ask if my plot had now been 'divisioned' - and no reply. The owner of the property next to me flew in last week and was able to inform me not only had it been - but gave me the reference number - but still I have yet to hear from the well paid Lawyers.

The problem lies with developers overextending themselves and failing to recognise - or react to - the downturn in the Market. The problem lies with Banks making unsafe loans to Developers - to obtain bonuses and profits - also failing to recognise the risk of the loan and the downturn of the Market. The problem lies with Lawyers who fail to meet expected professionl standards. The problem lies with a crazy system - not even seen in Third World countires - where, when you purchase a property you do not get the Title Deeds immediately. The problem lies with a Land Registry staff, many of whom not to apply energy or appropriateness to serving their 'clients' ie the members of the public.


You left one out:

The problem lies with people prepared to take the risks for cheap homes/investments in the sun.

- denying that this also occurs, is burying your head in cement!

(Speaking in general and not specifically; in completion of your above list. :) )
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