Cyprus-Forum.com

[GreekIslandGirl]

Property Rights and Law Among the Ancient Greeks

http://www.fee.org/the_freeman/detail/p ... z2QknwcTsh

Very interesting article GreekIslandGirl, thanks for posting it.

Yes - we go back a long way with such issues - but somewhere along the way, likely due to Cyprus' Colonial-influences, we lost track of why hearth and home are so important to us.

Our mainland cousins were spared this post-colonial mentality and kept a more rational approach to house-ownership. Consequently, despite being hammered by the Germans/Troika with austerity and debts they have been fairing much better than Cypriots:

17th April 2013 - The findings of a recent European Central Bank report into household wealth have inflamed public opinion in Germany. In 2010, the average net wealth of German households – all assets minus all liabilities – stood at €195,000 (£168,000). In the southern member states, the figures were surprisingly high: €291,000 in Spain, €275,000 in Italy, €153,000 in Portugal, €148,000 in Greece and, wait for it, €671,000 in Cyprus. It makes it look as if the German people have been asked to rescue southerners who are often richer than their rescuers. "The poverty lie", says the front page of this week's Der Spiegel. Are German citizens right to be annoyed? The answer is yes, but they have chosen the wrong target.

The answer to why some southerners appear richer than Germans is straightforward: housing. The systems through which European nations meet their housing needs differ widely, reflecting history, politics, and social custom. Germans and Austrians tend to rent their houses. Spaniards, Italians, Greeks, Cypriots and others have very high percentages of owner occupation. With steadily higher inflation in the periphery during the last 15 years, plus outright housing speculation in Spain and Cyprus, the value of houses has risen, making southerners appear richer.

Households also have debts, though, which must be serviced out of income. How do southerners compare with Germans in this respect? Judging by the ratio of household debts to assets, Germans appear to be worse off than southerners, which is quite natural, since southerners have overvalued houses and so large assets. But when it comes to servicing debts, things are very different. The ratio of household debts to income is 37% in Germany, but 114% in Spain, 50% in Italy, 134% in Portugal, 47% in Greece and 157% in Cyprus. Not so rich in the periphery, then.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree ... overty-lie

[cyprusgrump]

The Cyprus Property Scandal is Still Live......

In January 2007, ... moan moan moan

Chill out, will ya?

You need to learn to take the good with the bad.

A lot of the problems were caused through choice not to pay Property Transfer Fees.

Oh please!

Take your head out of the sand and join us in the real world will you....?

[supporttheunderdog]

The Cyprus Property Scandal is Still Live......

In January 2007, ... moan moan moan

Chill out, will ya?

You need to learn to take the good with the bad.

A lot of the problems were caused through choice not to pay Property Transfer Fees.

Oh please!

Take your head out of the sand and join us in the real world will you....?

there are probably quite a few properties which do not have deeds not because of any developer's loan issues but (a) as GiG outlined because the owners did not want to pay tax and (b) because in many cases the properties had an element of illegality in their construction/non conformity with approved plans. These were problems I came across when looking to buy, where I walked from several possible purchases because these issues emerged. (I had a good honest lawyer) . However the prospect is that few of those houses have been built with large loans attached and they probably contribute very little to to the massive problems of non-performing domestic loans .

Today I heard a comment from the (Cypriot) MD of a firm in the financial sector who was generally scathing about the Cypriot *anking industry and the *ankers that run it: he commented that while one bank had declared itself bankrupt (ie the Laiki) in reality the other one (ie BoC) was too and he expected that in a few months this (and its closure) would be announced. I pass this comment on on an as heard basis.

(another participant in this debate stated he would rather be called a pedophile than a *anker!)

[GreekIslandGirl]

The Cyprus Property Scandal is Still Live......

In January 2007, ... moan moan moan

Chill out, will ya?

You need to learn to take the good with the bad.

A lot of the problems were caused through choice not to pay Property Transfer Fees.

Oh please!

Take your head out of the sand and join us in the real world will you....?

there are probably quite a few properties which do not have deeds not because of any developer's loan issues but (a) as GiG outlined because the owners did not want to pay tax ....

Thanks for verifying that STUD. I can see how some may put off paying the tax leaving their deeds with developers who over time may have died or gone bust or used it for further loans - and then the mess starts. No one remains untarnished when homes are used primarily for making money rather than places to live in.

[sven]

The Cyprus Property Scandal is Still Live......

In January 2007, ... moan moan moan

Chill out, will ya?

You need to learn to take the good with the bad.

A lot of the problems were caused through choice not to pay Property Transfer Fees.

Oh please!

Take your head out of the sand and join us in the real world will you....?

CG, the Tranny hasn't got her, its or his head in the sand, he is the one doing the thrusting.

[Milo]

Anyone with some sense would realise that property is for the majority one of the biggest investments they will ever make! Belittling that into some stupid dream won't work with many, not in the 21st century.

Having purchased, then to find you have been defrauded on top makes life somewhat difficult after especially when the corruption is condoned from the very top.

Like I say, the financial exposure firstly will be brought to the fore soon enough, those that doubted what many were screaming about for the last five to ten years, will soon know how a few of their own countrymen stoked the fire that they now find themselves innocently in. The ankers and the helevopers are IMO responsible in a very big way for the toxic debts now being paid back by innocent depositors! Shame on them.

Faith needs restoring in the property sector big time, without this it's going to fail, we need new blood and new regulations fast, the lazy part time, over paid and often rude lard arses in the public sector need replacing with young eager and intelligent workers, hell bent on turning Cyprus back around from what these nepotistic, corrupt and greedy individuals have done. There are many out there waiting in the wings just to do that, let em thru........

[B25]

Anyone with some sense would realise that property is for the majority one of the biggest investments they will ever make! Belittling that into some stupid dream won't work with many, not in the 21st century.

Having purchased, then to find you have been defrauded on top makes life somewhat difficult after especially when the corruption is condoned from the very top.

Like I say, the financial exposure firstly will be brought to the fore soon enough, those that doubted what many were screaming about for the last five to ten years, will soon know how a few of their own countrymen stoked the fire that they now find themselves innocently in. The ankers and the helevopers are IMO responsible in a very big way for the toxic debts now being paid back by innocent depositors! Shame on them.

Faith needs restoring in the property sector big time, without this it's going to fail, we need new blood and new regulations fast, the lazy part time, over paid and often rude lard arses in the public sector need replacing with young eager and intelligent workers, hell bent on turning Cyprus back around from what these nepotistic, corrupt and greedy individuals have done. There are many out there waiting in the wings just to do that, let em thru........

Agreed, but you left out the bent lawyers In fact tbh, it makes me smile when I use the term LAWYER when those practising it are so bent. Well the most of them that is.

And I have been saying this all long about the government works, lazy MFs and need clearing out. Please put me in charge, I will change the system over night.

[GreekIslandGirl]

It's too easy to blame developers, governments, lawyers. But those people who have been buying properties in Cyprus for investment and quick bucks are to blame for the mess as well.

It's no coincidence that the two most property-price-bloated countries in the EU are Spain and Cyprus - the two countries most favoured by expats. Cyprus has the added problem of rich Russians using property as an investment.

The good and the bad is that we have a 50% increase in Russian tourists already booked on scheduled flights to Cyprus this year and 42% increase from the Ukraine. You can bet they're not just coming for a holiday - quite a few will be coming to snap up some properties. Always the case.

Unfortunately, this property boom (not necessarily an increase in prices, an increase in sells) will further inflame the Germans who are already moaning their property assets per capita are way below those of Cyprus - and they are not happy!

We don't want the Germans to do the same to property owners in Cyprus that they did to bank depositors just because they see so much outside investment - although a mansion tax or some such thing could be beneficial, if the money stayed in the RoC.

I think the government should do something to limit these transactions.

[Oceanside50]

It's too easy to blame developers, governments, lawyers. But those people who have been buying properties in Cyprus for investment and quick bucks are to blame for the mess as well.

It's no coincidence that the two most property-price-bloated countries in the EU are Spain and Cyprus - the two countries most favoured by expats. Cyprus has the added problem of rich Russians using property as an investment.

The good and the bad is that we have a 50% increase in Russian tourists already booked on scheduled flights to Cyprus this year and 42% increase from the Ukraine. You can bet they're not just coming for a holiday - quite a few will be coming to snap up some properties. Always the case.

Unfortunately, this property boom (not necessarily an increase in prices, an increase in sells) will further inflame the Germans who are already moaning their property assets per capita are way below those of Cyprus - and they are not happy!

We don't want the Germans to do the same to property owners in Cyprus that they did to bank depositors just because they see so much outside investment - although a mansion tax or some such thing could be beneficial, if the money stayed in the RoC.

I think the government should do something to limit these transactions.

No the government should stay out, and not try and regulate anything, we've seen the mess they've made of everything...banks were lending money left and right with the help of crooked lawyers ,houses were being built on
On mortgaged properties, that the lawyer should have informed the house buyer about..but greed wouldn't let them do that..these banks should be let go to bankruptcy...including The bank of Cyprus and not be rescued by the EU or anyone else..

[Milo]

It's too easy to blame developers, governments, lawyers. But those people who have been buying properties in Cyprus for investment and quick bucks are to blame for the mess as well.

It's no coincidence that the two most property-price-bloated countries in the EU are Spain and Cyprus - the two countries most favoured by expats. Cyprus has the added problem of rich Russians using property as an investment.



I think the government should do something to limit these transactions.

I don't think the govt will need to do anything, they've already overseen the whole mess!

The two most property price bloated countries Spain and Cyprus ? The same two countries in hoc because of the borrowing they did? The overpricing they set? The overbuilding they created, the land sale they demanded? Caused only by a few greedy bloated, fat and ugly home grown individuals?

Yeh I can see that's the fault of expats for wanting to buy in Cyprus! Naughty expats, and of course those pesky rich Russians who now have lost billions in haircuts, will of course recommend their fellow countryman come to Cyprus in droves to partake of some juicy Souvla and Keo's on the beach..

Why didn't I see that?

Of course why should the Germans have to pay more tax, recieve less pension, work more hours etc, than their counterparts in cyprus? I mean they should just put up and shut up shouldn't they?

Cyprus needs big changes sensible people know the wind of change is about to decsend as nothing will be the same, most of us want those changes, and to sweep away the past, I know one thing, those expats loyal to Cyprus and theres many of them, very much will stay and see these changes happen! I have never seen such loyalty to a country even though many have been affected by past scandals and scams, most understand it's the grevious fault of those politicians, banks, lawyers and developers doing only one thing.....lining their own pockets.