Cyprus-Forum.com

[Nikitas]

Germany thought it could use its economic power to jockey for a position in the international premier league. This is the third attempt. It will fail again because it does not have the scope of a world class player. This time circumstances are again turning against her. The USA is experiencing an energy glut, manufacturing is returning to its US base, and yesterday I read that even German and Austrian companies are investing in the USA to take advantage of this energy glut (natural gas and shale oil).

We in Europe fell for the German promoted obsession of renewables and a cascade of environmental regulations that make business almost impossible in some sectors. It is indicative that in Greece there was a proposal, by the GERMAN chamber of industry, to set up special industrial parks in which there would be a suspension of (German inspired) EU regulations, to promote economic recovery!!! Spanish commissioner Almuna reacted strongly to such a deviation of EU laws to favor one country, even if it is in dire straits.

Someone should tell the Germans that leadership is not a matter of making life hard for your allies and pushing your weight about in an area that you already control. If the Cypriot model has failed, the German model is no viable substitute.

[Mik]

Like the end bit of that..... Didnt the Germans try that once or twice before? lol

[lucius]

Germany thought it could use its economic power to jockey for a position in the international premier league. This is the third attempt. It will fail again because it does not have the scope of a world class player. This time circumstances are again turning against her. The USA is experiencing an energy glut, manufacturing is returning to its US base, and yesterday I read that even German and Austrian companies are investing in the USA to take advantage of this energy glut (natural gas and shale oil).

We in Europe fell for the German promoted obsession of renewables and a cascade of environmental regulations that make business almost impossible in some sectors. It is indicative that in Greece there was a proposal, by the GERMAN chamber of industry, to set up special industrial parks in which there would be a suspension of (German inspired) EU regulations, to promote economic recovery!!! Spanish commissioner Almuna reacted strongly to such a deviation of EU laws to favor one country, even if it is in dire straits.

Someone should tell the Germans that leadership is not a matter of making life hard for your allies and pushing your weight about in an area that you already control. If the Cypriot model has failed, the German model is no viable substitute.

Okay, okay. If something goes wrong the Germans are to blame. If that makes you feel better. Go ahead. I surrender.

[CBBB]

Germany thought it could use its economic power to jockey for a position in the international premier league. This is the third attempt. It will fail again because it does not have the scope of a world class player. This time circumstances are again turning against her. The USA is experiencing an energy glut, manufacturing is returning to its US base, and yesterday I read that even German and Austrian companies are investing in the USA to take advantage of this energy glut (natural gas and shale oil).

We in Europe fell for the German promoted obsession of renewables and a cascade of environmental regulations that make business almost impossible in some sectors. It is indicative that in Greece there was a proposal, by the GERMAN chamber of industry, to set up special industrial parks in which there would be a suspension of (German inspired) EU regulations, to promote economic recovery!!! Spanish commissioner Almuna reacted strongly to such a deviation of EU laws to favor one country, even if it is in dire straits.

Someone should tell the Germans that leadership is not a matter of making life hard for your allies and pushing your weight about in an area that you already control. If the Cypriot model has failed, the German model is no viable substitute.

Okay, okay. If something goes wrong the Germans are to blame. If that makes you feel better. Go ahead. I surrender.

Don't mention the war!

[Mik]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... 6dVEkEE3-Q
Sure you'll appreciate this guys name as well?

[CBBB]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=s6dVEkEE3-Q
Sure you'll appreciate this guys name as well?

A bit slow that bloke, I have been saying for weeks that Apple could buy us with its petty cash!

[Nikitas]

Lucius, you are trying to reduce the debate to blame, which is indicative of the assumptions that brought about the crisis.

What we expected from a nation that has put itself in a position of European leadership is..... leadership. Compare how the US Federal Government is treating its poorer states, and you might get a picture of how true leadership works.

Here we had a situation where Merkel talked about "bleeding" being necessary, imposed across the board austerity on everyone, including minimum wage earners (Greece, Spain, Portugal), trashed the basic tenets of freedom of capital, movement of goods etc. The multiple crises could have been handled with more finesse, and gotten us all out of the mess with less "bleeding". But that is asking too much from German politicians. The last two years have shown that finesse is not a German weakness.

Since you mentioned "blame", tell us how the German authorities punished the persons found guilty of the Siemens, MAN, Ferrostahl bribery scandals, and why it will not allow foreign investigators to interrogate these gentlemen. Here in Greece Siemens sold the C4I scurity system for the Olympics, for some hundreds of millions of Euro. The system never worked. The chief bribery intermdediary and Siemens executive, MR Christoforakos, escaped to Germany where he is secure, (he is a German national), immune from prosecution and unavailable to Greek interrogators. Coincidentally Siemens has been the major supplier, via winning most tenders, of railway and communications services. Then you talk about blame!

Off topic- evry time I talk with Germans, lines from the Sopranos and the Goodfellas come to mind. Strange, but true. Line like "now go get your shine box", and "you can stick your sorry up your...." that kind of stuff.

[lucius]

Lucius, you are trying to reduce the debate to blame, which is indicative of the assumptions that brought about the crisis.

What we expected from a nation that has put itself in a position of European leadership is..... leadership. Compare how the US Federal Government is treating its poorer states, and you might get a picture of how true leadership works.

Here we had a situation where Merkel talked about "bleeding" being necessary, imposed across the board austerity on everyone, including minimum wage earners (Greece, Spain, Portugal), trashed the basic tenets of freedom of capital, movement of goods etc. The multiple crises could have been handled with more finesse, and gotten us all out of the mess with less "bleeding". But that is asking too much from German politicians. The last two years have shown that finesse is not a German weakness.

Since you mentioned "blame", tell us how the German authorities punished the persons found guilty of the Siemens, MAN, Ferrostahl bribery scandals, and why it will not allow foreign investigators to interrogate these gentlemen. Here in Greece Siemens sold the C4I scurity system for the Olympics, for some hundreds of millions of Euro. The system never worked. The chief bribery intermdediary and Siemens executive, MR Christoforakos, escaped to Germany where he is secure, (he is a German national), immune from prosecution and unavailable to Greek interrogators. Coincidentally Siemens has been the major supplier, via winning most tenders, of railway and communications services. Then you talk about blame!

Off topic- evry time I talk with Germans, lines from the Sopranos and the Goodfellas come to mind. Strange, but true. Line like "now go get your shine box", and "you can stick your sorry up your...." that kind of stuff.

If you think that i do like what Merkel does you are dead wrong. I think the austerity policy in Southern Europe is a disaster. But as disastrous was the eagerness of the Southern european nations to get into the euro at all costs in the first place. Thats what got us in that mess. The question is how we get out of it again. I don´t think bailout here, bailout there will lead to anything then a dead end.

[yialousa1971]

I think you have missed my point. I understand the anger felt by ordinary Germans, and I want them to get their 10 billion back with interest. My point is, if you kill the goose that lays the golden egg, there is no way that Cyprus can pay this money back based on activities like subsistence agriculture and cheap package tourism. It will not fill the gap left by the loss of the banking and business services sector.

Well, the chicken and egg problem, which came first? Did the failing banks caused the bailout or the other way around? I think the banks failed before the need for the bailout came. Once banks fail it´s often not possible to retrieve them. Certainly not after you crossed a threshold, which has been crossed. Maybe it is better to let them fail, otherwise other banks might be encouraged to risk even more. So, they let them fail. That has happened. Whos to blame doesn´t help in present and future, that was my point.

Ask GR.

[yialousa1971]

Hello there,

First of all, yes i am a German who really enjoyed my past stays in Cyprus (and Greece),hopefully i can do this in future as well. My last vacation was in Corfu, so no anti-Greek here. I even stayed in Cyprus for a couple of months a few years ago. "Some" here in this Forum and surely in Cyprus call as filthy Krauts (e.g, Poster "Cap")

cyprus40202.html#p749734


Well, i find that exaggerated and unfair but surely the Germanophopie is a result of the euro.

The euro surely doesn´t fit for all countries. Most can see that now, even as I must say that failing banks and the euro are not interconnected (e.g. Iceland - no euro, but still failing banks). Surely the so called european debt crisis is connected with the euro, it doesn´t fit to all. It doesn´t fit to Italy, Spain, Portugal, Greece, maybe even France. It maybe does not work for Cyprus either. But, you certainly can not blame the troika or the Germans for the results now. Not Germany forced you in the EU and euro, you did that by your own decision. You can not blame the Germans (Troika whatever) for that. Some may point out that the cypriot bank would not have failed without a Greek haircut. Maybe not for now, but one other incident in the future would have wrecked them. Uncontrolled banks will destroy a country sooner or later.

I know its easier to find a scapegoat for the misery, but that will not help. If you ever want to overcome it, you have to work. Look at Iceland, surely they were angry at first. They did not had the luxury to blame other countries for their misery, but angry they were. But, they overcame that quickly, and look where they are now, just a few years after? Unemployment falls and debt shrinks.

Certainly banking sector in cyprus as a important economic factor is gone, so it is in Iceland. You should not try to push it up in future. Well, you could if you want, but i can´t recommend it. Big banking can wreck even the most healthiest economies. You have to find alternative ways for future revenues. If getting out of the euro can help, than for god sake get out of it!

Believe me, most Germans hate it being called nazis and do not want to force their view on others - imaginary or real. Certainly they don´t like to be the bad guys all over Southern Europe. I am sure they would rather much be on the sidelines of all that. But, even if they did that, that would not be liked by all either. I rather think that it is more a problem of Northern and Southern europe than of Germany against the other.

Hopefully Cyprus get out of all that mess. I wish you luck. Maybe see you someday in Paphos, Polis or the Ledra Street in United Nicosia - or on the streets of Stuttgart, Munich or Berlin like many Greeks, Italians or other Southern Europeans.

Take care

Welcome.