Cyprus-Forum.com

[Nikitas]

Lucius,

People are angry because your popular media indulged in slander against southern Europeans, whom they unjustly portrayed as indolent, corrupt, fraudulent etc. In the meantime Germany has managed to sweep under the carpet huge corruption scandals- Siemens, MAN, Ferrostahl, etc, and refuses to let the people the German authorities found guilty, be interrogated in the nations that suffered the effects of GERMAN corruption.

Additionally, when Cyprus, Greece and Italy were importing high end German made consumer goods, like Mercedes, BMW, Porsche, etc, why were there no alarms set off by the German finance gurus? It must have been obvious that the buyers were borrowing to buy these toys. The lenders were banks like Laiki, but as long as the profits rolled into GERMAN firms it was OK.

German tax payers are not paying for the bailouts. Germany borrows money at 1.5 per cent and then relends at 2.5 per cent for the bailouts. So there is no burden for the German taxpayer.

Germany considers that Cypriot banking should shrink to the Eurepean average percentage of GDP? Where is then the principle of free markets? Is this average applied to other financial centers like London, Malta, Luxembourg, Gibraltar, etc. SIngling out one nation and demanding that a sector of its economy should shrink makes monkeys of "principles" like the free market, competition, free movement of capital and all kinds of bullshit Germany shoved down our throats all these years that these ideas were useful to its national interest. All of a sudden Germany turns to soviet style centralised planning and all these principle go down the toilet.

This is why people are pissed at Germany. I do not know what others do, but I will not touch anything made in Germany or made by any company even partly owned by Germans. I am guessing that countless other people are doing the same and that explains the planned woodwill visits planned by chaps like Otto Rehaigel. However, it is too little too late.

[repulsewarrior]

Sure, but that will not help the economy. Look at the Leman Brother guys and Toxic asset inventors. They still walk free. Propably enjoying an easy life in a sunny resort.

it will help the economy in terms of learning and preventing things like this happening again, if not clawing back any money which was transferred out of Cyprus by anyone in the know prior.

it is not the priority but it can and should run in parallel with other initiatives specifically focused on rebuilding the economy.

Sure this have to be investigated. My main point was not to put most of the efforts in looking for blame. Seems misunderstanding on my part.

Cyprus must find more vertical markets, do you have any suggestions/ideas?

A language learning centre. English, German, Russian and Chinese language learning could be provided in Cyprus.

Already Cyprus (its very Republic) is transparent in its ability to communicate in three languages. As I've already mentioned, the Rule of Law in Cyprus is widely respected, nothing changes in terms of the Cypriot ability to successfully effect in trade exchange. Those of us who are not English by mothertongue, should recognise that although 90% of us speak English, we represent the 90% of the Ethnosphere which is barreling toward extinction at a faster rate than the Ecosphere.

...Cyprus, by its Location, and being European, represents the ideal spot to take the enterprise of Language seriously.

@Nikitas, i cannot disagree with you, well said.
so far, the crisis in Cyprus, after more than a few others, has boiled down to quite a bit of panic, at least a lack of discipline, the action of Bankers surrounded by threats, but no forsight as Investors, damaging the equity of Goodwill hard fought for in a competitive International market, to save a few Euros. i am polite, at least i like to think of the possibilities, of what she has the power to do, because despite the fact that this affair fills us with a sense of despair which we must overcome, the Cyprus Problem is bigger.

[Tim Drayton]

I am a supporter of European federalism as a long-term goal. However, at present the European Union is a union of independent, sovereign nations. A cornerstone of international law as it stands is the inviolable sovereignty of nations. This includes the right for each nation to chose the economic model that it believes to be the best for its country. For the rulers of another country to dictate what is or is not the correct economic model for that country is a violation of its sovereignty. Yet this is precisely what Merkel and Schäuble have done.
I appreciate that the German media has been churning out the message that the Cypriot business model is all about laundering Russian oligarchs' dirty money and is supposedly unsustainable and must change. This is a very distorted position. Whether or not money laundering has been taking place here and to what extent is a question that can only be answered in an investigation by those competent to do so. However, those of us here in Cyprus can see that there was far more than this to the model of 40 years' standing of promoting Cyprus as a business and banking centre.It is not just about banking; many international companies in legitimate lines of business operate from Cyprus and the sound, efficient banking system was at the core of this. I doubt if you will find a single person in Cyprus, either Cypriot or a permanent foreign resident like me who does not believe that this model is the right one for Cyprus and that it was perfectly viable and sustainable. Furthermore, there is no alternative model for a small island like this that will generate the same returns.
That is why, last Monday, the Cyprus parliament unanimously rejected the bail-out involving a bank levy. This is because everyone can see that imposing a levy on bank deposits would destroy confidence in Cyprus' banks and thus drive away the international businesses that have chosen to operate here. In short, imposing a levy on bank deposits was tanatmount to death for the Cyprus economy.
Cyprus did not want 17 billion euro. The German media may not have reported on this, but last week the Cyprus government hurriedly came up with a plan B to raise the 5-6 billion euro that it was required to raise in order to secure the bail-out. Angela Merkel came out in stark opposition to this on the grounds that 2 billion were to be raised by nationalising pension funds - a stark measure, but one that a sovereign nation is entitled to make recourse to in times of dire need - and because of this plan B collapsed. Merkel's argument was that nationalising pension funds goes against a core EU principle, ignoring the fact that the original bail-out plan also violated the core EU principle that bank deposits of less than 100,000 euro are sacrosanct, yet we did not hear Merkel or Schäuble coming out in opposition to this. Cyprus found a way to raise that money without imposing a levy on bank accounts and Merkel rejected it.
All we have heard from Merkel and Schäuble for the past couple of weeks is the mantra that the Cyprus business model is unsustainable and that there absolutely must be a levy on bank accounts. The inescapable conclusion is that the German regime/ruling class wished to destroy Cyprus as a banking and business centre. The events surrounding Cyprus of the past two weeks are not as portrayed in the German mass media. Of course, Germany is not to blame for this crisis. The blame lies with those who managed the two largest banks in Cyprus and their decision, flying in the face of the most basic rule for managing risk of the need to diversify, placed all of their eggs in Greek government securities at a time when everybody else was selling them. What, however, is abundantly clear to people in Cyprus is that the German regime has exploited this crisis to destroy Cyprus as a banking and business centre. It is as yet unclear what the motive for this is was. I do not believe for a minute that it was for the reasons touted to the German public in their media. One of my neighbours believes it is because there is a lot of German capital in the Luxembourg banking system and so, by getting rid of one of Luxembourg's rivals, the German capitalist class will get a higher return on its investment there. I am not so sure. I think it is part of some larger geopolitical strategy whose purpose is not as yet apparent.
Yes, Cyprus has been butchered, slaughtered, destroyed.The people here are well aware that years of hardship lie ahead and that there is much hard work to be done to pull the country back out of the abyss. There is absolutely no need for anyone to point out this obvious fact. I for one do not believe that the likes of Merkel and Schäuble speak for the ordinary German people; theirs is the voice of one group of capitalists vying for a position in the globalised economic order. However, you should realise that, while in Germany this sordid affair will soon be forgotten, it will live in people's memories here for a long, long time.
Nobody here perceives the 10 billion euro as a gift; it is a loan that has to be repaid with interest. For Cyprus to do this, it has to create value and earn money, and the best way that it could have done so would have been to continue as the viable international business centre that it has been for forty years. This called for a rescue package that did not undermine confidence in the banking system central to this model; a rescue that did not involve a levy on deposits. Instead, the latter route was imposed on Cyprus and the country has been annihilated. As such, it is going to be much harder to repay this loan, which in part was financed by the hard working taxpayers of Germany, so the chances of ordinary Germans getting their money back has been lessened.

[Sotos]

I think it is part of some larger geopolitical strategy whose purpose is not as yet apparent.

It could be some geopolitical strategy involving the gas recently found in Cyprus... but it can also be just German election games. The German parties are trying to show to the German people that they are willing to walk over dead bodies to maximize the profits for Germany. Small wounded Cyprus was the right victim at the right time. And don't tell me that Merkel and Schäuble don't speak for the ordinary German people. The majority of the German people support such kind of policies and that is why Merkel is doing them!

The blame lies with those who managed the two largest banks in Cyprus and their decision, flying in the face of the most basic rule for managing risk of the need to diversify, placed all of their eggs in Greek government securities at a time when everybody else was selling them.

Yes, they made I huge mistake and I hope that they will pay for this. But is this mistake made just because of incompetence? Do you think that the German banks and possibly the banks of the other big EU countries were not informed beforehand to sell everything Greek because a haircut was coming? Merkel told her banks to sell because she knew what the next policy of EU would be (she is the one who makes the policies) while our banks had no such insider info! How can you compete in a common market when your competitors are the ones who make the rules at will??

I am a supporter of European federalism as a long-term goal.

I am not anymore Each nation cares only for its own good... I didn't expect other EU countries to care for Cyprus anywhere as much as we do but when they are willing to destroy our country just so they can gain some votes in their elections then I say fuck European federalism!

[cyprusgrump]

Lucius,

People are angry because your popular media indulged in slander against southern Europeans, whom they unjustly portrayed as indolent, corrupt, fraudulent etc. In the meantime Germany has managed to sweep under the carpet huge corruption scandals- Siemens, MAN, Ferrostahl, etc, and refuses to let the people the German authorities found guilty, be interrogated in the nations that suffered the effects of GERMAN corruption.

Additionally, when Cyprus, Greece and Italy were importing high end German made consumer goods, like Mercedes, BMW, Porsche, etc, why were there no alarms set off by the German finance gurus? It must have been obvious that the buyers were borrowing to buy these toys. The lenders were banks like Laiki, but as long as the profits rolled into GERMAN firms it was OK.

German tax payers are not paying for the bailouts. Germany borrows money at 1.5 per cent and then relends at 2.5 per cent for the bailouts. So there is no burden for the German taxpayer.

Germany considers that Cypriot banking should shrink to the Eurepean average percentage of GDP? Where is then the principle of free markets? Is this average applied to other financial centers like London, Malta, Luxembourg, Gibraltar, etc. SIngling out one nation and demanding that a sector of its economy should shrink makes monkeys of "principles" like the free market, competition, free movement of capital and all kinds of bullshit Germany shoved down our throats all these years that these ideas were useful to its national interest. All of a sudden Germany turns to soviet style centralised planning and all these principle go down the toilet.

This is why people are pissed at Germany. I do not know what others do, but I will not touch anything made in Germany or made by any company even partly owned by Germans. I am guessing that countless other people are doing the same and that explains the planned woodwill visits planned by chaps like Otto Rehaigel. However, it is too little too late.

Excellent post Nikitas....

[Lit]

This is why people are pissed at Germany. I do not know what others do, but I will not touch anything made in Germany or made by any company even partly owned by Germans.

An online petition involving citizens from Southern EU states should be created IMMEDIATELY.....NO more buying German products!

I can see millions signing it....LETS DO IT....

[Mik]

No more "German" products? That would be a little more difficult than it sounds.....

[kurupetos]

No more "German" products? That would be a little more difficult than it sounds.....

Why?

[Mik]

the amount of comsumer goods that use German parts and We for one would struggle shopping if not for Lidl.

[lucius]

Lucius,

People are angry because your popular media indulged in slander against southern Europeans, whom they unjustly portrayed as indolent, corrupt, fraudulent etc. In the meantime Germany has managed to sweep under the carpet huge corruption scandals- Siemens, MAN, Ferrostahl, etc, and refuses to let the people the German authorities found guilty, be interrogated in the nations that suffered the effects of GERMAN corruption.

Additionally, when Cyprus, Greece and Italy were importing high end German made consumer goods, like Mercedes, BMW, Porsche, etc, why were there no alarms set off by the German finance gurus? It must have been obvious that the buyers were borrowing to buy these toys. The lenders were banks like Laiki, but as long as the profits rolled into GERMAN firms it was OK.

German tax payers are not paying for the bailouts. Germany borrows money at 1.5 per cent and then relends at 2.5 per cent for the bailouts. So there is no burden for the German taxpayer.

Assuming that the debt can be repaid. I believe no in in Northern Europe thinks that e.g. the Greek bailouts will ever be repaid. It´s simply unrealistic. Guess Ireland and Spain can at least if economy turns around soon.

Germany considers that Cypriot banking should shrink to the Eurepean average percentage of GDP? Where is then the principle of free markets? Is this average applied to other financial centers like London, Malta, Luxembourg, Gibraltar, etc. SIngling out one nation and demanding that a sector of its economy should shrink makes monkeys of "principles" like the free market, competition, free movement of capital and all kinds of bullshit Germany shoved down our throats all these years that these ideas were useful to its national interest. All of a sudden Germany turns to soviet style centralised planning and all these principle go down the toilet.

This is why people are pissed at Germany. I do not know what others do, but I will not touch anything made in Germany or made by any company even partly owned by Germans. I am guessing that countless other people are doing the same and that explains the planned woodwill visits planned by chaps like Otto Rehaigel. However, it is too little too late.

Principle of free markets? Well one principle of free market is companies can go bankrupt. That includes banks in my view. Of course in Germany many banks were bailt out as well. That does not mean it was the right thing to to in the long perspective. But, as long a country can bailout its own banks that is a different matter i think. Cyprus couldn´t. Neither could Iceland, thats why they liquidated them.

Concerning the other financial centers, no one will come to bail them out if they fail.

Laiki seems to have been bankrupt since mid-last year. Seems to me that many of your politicians put their head buried deep in the sand. So, not Germany is to blame for that. No one in Cyprus seemes to be angry of Russia, UK. How big was their share in the bailout? The first lesser, the latter non-existent (maybe IMF share). So, don´t to by angry of those who had least did something. I also think it could have be handled much better.