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Your banks are toast

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Re: Your banks are toast

Postby cyprusgrump » Fri Mar 22, 2013 3:03 pm

Bloomberg: eurogroup's new plan

Bloomberg is reporting that Eurozone finance ministers are pushing Cyprus to hit large depositors at both of its two biggest banks - Bank of Cyprus and Laiki - with losses of up to 40%, in an attempt to get a new bailout deal agreed in time.

Under the plan, attributed to four European officials, the two institutions would be smashed together to create a 'good' bank and a 'bad' bank:

Insured deposits -- below the European Union ceiling of 100,000 euros ($129,000) -- would go into a so-called good bank and not sustain any losses, while uninsured deposits would go into the bad bank and be frozen until assets could be sold, said the four officials.

Losses to unsecured creditors, including uninsured depositors, could reach 40%, which has support from the International Monetary Fund and the European Central Bank.


Close watchers of the crisis will know that a similar version of this plan was discussed at the meeting last weekend when the Cyprus bailout was agreed.

As this inside story of the negotiations explains, Germany and the IMF wanted a big hit on wealthier savers' deposits, the commission was keen on modest contributions from savers with less than €100,000 and president Anastasiades didn't want to spook wealthy Russians.

A week is a long time in the eurozone crisis
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Re: Your banks are toast

Postby appel » Fri Mar 22, 2013 3:36 pm

So, how can this be legal?

This is still confiscation and breaking promises, breaking the rules, the banks are defaulting... and still... they paint it as something ordinary?

So, is this the new ordinary reality within the EU? Expect your deposits to be confiscated?
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Re: Your banks are toast

Postby Tim Drayton » Fri Mar 22, 2013 3:43 pm

CrookedRiverGuy wrote:
Tim Drayton wrote:It is important to learn from what happened in Iceland, but we must avoid absolute determinism: because one thing happened in Iceland this does not mean that it necessarily must happen in Cyprus. There are two important differences with Cyprus, too: it is an EU member state and uses the European common currency.
According to the news just now, some kind of B plan seems to be emerging, anyway. Let's hope it comes off.


Well, I'm not really sure it makes you benefit too much:
>> Currency: It was possible to let the Icelandic Crown go south. You don't have this degree of freedom
>> EU state: Being a member AND within €-zone clearly makes you a hostage. Some people might think it's the other way around, but I have to disappoint you - it ain't necessarily so :)


There seems to be a crossed wire here. As you rightly point out, there are a number of significant differences between the case of Cyprus and Iceland, e.g.:
"Currency: It was possible to let the Icelandic Crown go south. You don't have this degree of freedom
EU state: Being a member AND within €-zone clearly makes you a hostage."
So you would appear to be agreeing with my statement that we cannot assume in a deterministic manner that the exact course of events that were witnessed in Iceland will also unfold in Cyprus.

PS - If you were construing me as saying that the situation in Cyprus is different from that in Iceland, and therefore there is nothing to worry about, that is not what I am saying. I am well aware that Cyprus is staring into the abyss.
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Re: Your banks are toast

Postby CrookedRiverGuy » Fri Mar 22, 2013 3:46 pm

appel wrote:So, how can this be legal?


What in this is different from the Kaupthing-story?
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Re: Your banks are toast

Postby Tim Drayton » Fri Mar 22, 2013 3:46 pm

CrookedRiverGuy wrote:
kurupetos wrote:I know that mate. I didn't claim otherwise; I was simply stating the Cypriot citizens' employment options. :wink:

OK, but they are mostly theoretical. I often read about highly qualified Spanish engineers and so on, that aren't left a tiny chance in the job market here. Mostly a language issue, probably, but where should the Cypriots go? To Greece with its 20% unemployment? To UK?


You should realise that there are more Cypriots living in the UK than in Cyprus, and that English enjoys a semi-official status here, which means that a lot of people on the island speak English very fluently.

In other words,the UK would be the prime destination.
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Re: Your banks are toast

Postby appel » Fri Mar 22, 2013 3:56 pm

CrookedRiverGuy wrote:
appel wrote:So, how can this be legal?


What in this is different from the Kaupthing-story?


What do you mean by the "Kaupthing-story"? Kaupthing went into default, and depositors were paid out. What are you suggesting?

A company going bankrupt is legal. The government confiscating deposits is not.
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Re: Your banks are toast

Postby Jerry » Fri Mar 22, 2013 4:14 pm

appel wrote:
CrookedRiverGuy wrote:
appel wrote:So, how can this be legal?


What in this is different from the Kaupthing-story?


What do you mean by the "Kaupthing-story"? Kaupthing went into default, and depositors were paid out. What are you suggesting?

A company going bankrupt is legal. The government confiscating deposits is not.



Legal or not surely it's better to confiscate, say 15%, than lose the lot through bankrupcy.
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Re: Your banks are toast

Postby CrookedRiverGuy » Fri Mar 22, 2013 4:21 pm

Jerry wrote:Legal or not surely it's better to confiscate, say 15%, than lose the lot through bankrupcy.


... and my point, appel, was that they are (at least the 2 major) technically bankrupt.
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Re: Your banks are toast

Postby supporttheunderdog » Fri Mar 22, 2013 4:25 pm

GreekIslandGirl wrote:
Jerry wrote:
cyprusgrump wrote:
sven wrote:
cyprusgrump wrote:What capital controls mean

We now have details of the 'capital controls' which Cyprus intends to vote into law (sometime) today, thanks to star blogger @YiannisMouzakis:

It's a remarkable set of restrictions on the usual nuts and bolts of the financial system - particularly given the final point:

Restrictions in daily withdrawals
Ban on premature termination of time savings deposits
Compulsory renewal of all time savings deposits upon maturity
Conversion of current accounts to time deposits

Ban or restrictions on non cash transactions
Restrictions on use of debit, credit or prepaid debit cards
Ban or restriction on cashing in checks
Restrictions on domestic interbank transfers or transfers within the same bank
Restrictions on the interactions/transactions of the public with credit institutions
Restrictions on movements of capital, payments, transfers
Any other measure which the Finance Minister or the Governor of Cyprus Central Bank see necessary for reasons of public order and safety

:shock: :shock: :shock:


so has all money in a current account been seized ?

I read what is in red as the seizure of all money in current accounts, the accounts have been converted to time deposit account, you can not end a time deposit account early, and the time deposit account is automatically renewed. They have stolen 100% of peoples money.


Agreed - that is how I read it too...



How on earth can any business function with restrictions like these? Better take 10% plus from all over 100k and be done with it. The offshore Cyprus banking industry is finished anyway.


It's a sad day when so many people (see above) believe a "blogger", now re-posted here as "policy" by an anti-Cypriot, anti-EU scaremonger. :roll:


This man works for Rueter's Thomson in Cyprus and he might have some inside information. I do however hope this is not correct.
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Re: Your banks are toast

Postby CrookedRiverGuy » Fri Mar 22, 2013 4:29 pm

Tim Drayton wrote:There seems to be a crossed wire here.

Probably.


Tim Drayton wrote:You should realise that there are more Cypriots living in the UK than in Cyprus, and that English enjoys a semi-official status here, which means that a lot of people on the island speak English very fluently. In other words,the UK would be the prime destination.

Yes, but UK don't have many jobs to offer. Besides; I don't think the average Cypriot speak English fluently. Some are very good, but most are not.
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