Cyprus-Forum.com

[Sotos]

What you say is bullshit from start to finish. When were the Greek people in Constantinople or Smyrna asked if they wanted their cities to be part of a country called TURKey? The Greeks in Asia Minor NEVER wanted such thing, they NEVER agreed to it and their opinion was NEVER asked.

You still do not get it do you. I will try and make it as simple as possible for you. Imagine a scenario in 1960 where 55% (or 80 % if you prefer) of the population were TC and 45 % (or 20% if you prefer) GC. Then think about the difference between a future after British rule where all became just Cypriot and one where all became part of Turkey. Then convince yourself that in such a hypothetical scenario the TC would have had the right to impose this union of Cyprus with Turkey on the GC community, with the GC community having no effective say in this monumental decision about their own futures in their own shared homeland. Tell yourself that you really believe this. Tell yourself that the GC community would have simply agreed and accepted this future as 'democracy' and a genuine expression of the right to self determination of a unitary Cypriot people, without complaint or resistance. You know the truth of what would be your view in such a hypothetical situation but you will tell yourself otherwise because you have to do so, in order to be able to keep believing what you have to believe.

In the case of Turkey, all became just Turkish. It was not a case of all being forced to be part of some other pre existing nation. The difference is as obvious as your efforts to believe and convince yourselves that it is not.

Only an idiot would claim that the Greeks of Asia Minor willingly accepted their cities to be part of some Turkish country!! What does it matter if the country was pre-existing or not? If we Greeks created a new country which included Cyprus and named it "Hellenicey" would it be any different to your minority? You are just grasping at straws!! The imaginary scenario you talk about is not really imaginary because that is EXACTLY what happened in every place where the Turks were majority and the Greeks the minority... and lets not even discuss on the ways that the Turks used to became the majority in those places.

[Lordo]

you are forgetting that simple fact that for the greek land lost in anatolia, you swine got terkish land in greece. now what the hell do we ellect governments if they can make agreements. what the bloody hell are you talking about asshole. you think they had time to go round and ask the ownwers if they wanted such agreement. where have you been living asshole planet uranus.

[supporttheunderdog]

What you say is bullshit from start to finish. When were the Greek people in Constantinople or Smyrna asked if they wanted their cities to be part of a country called TURKey? The Greeks in Asia Minor NEVER wanted such thing, they NEVER agreed to it and their opinion was NEVER asked.

You still do not get it do you. I will try and make it as simple as possible for you. Imagine a scenario in 1960 where 55% (or 80 % if you prefer) of the population were TC and 45 % (or 20% if you prefer) GC. Then think about the difference between a future after British rule where all became just Cypriot and one where all became part of Turkey. Then convince yourself that in such a hypothetical scenario the TC would have had the right to impose this union of Cyprus with Turkey on the GC community, with the GC community having no effective say in this monumental decision about their own futures in their own shared homeland. Tell yourself that you really believe this. Tell yourself that the GC community would have simply agreed and accepted this future as 'democracy' and a genuine expression of the right to self determination of a unitary Cypriot people, without complaint or resistance. You know the truth of what would be your view in such a hypothetical situation but you will tell yourself otherwise because you have to do so, in order to be able to keep believing what you have to believe.

In the case of Turkey, all became just Turkish. It was not a case of all being forced to be part of some other pre existing nation. The difference is as obvious as your efforts to believe and convince yourselves that it is not.

Only an idiot would claim that the Greeks of Asia Minor willingly accepted their cities to be part of some Turkish country!! What does it matter if the country was pre-existing or not? If we Greeks created a new country which included Cyprus and named it "Hellenicey" would it be any different to your minority? You are just grasping at straws!! The imaginary scenario you talk about is not really imaginary because that is EXACTLY what happened in every place where the Turks were majority and the Greeks the minority... and lets not even discuss on the ways that the Turks used to became the majority in those places.

Sotos

Can you identify any city in Anatolia that was majority Greek by say 1910 to 1912? My own understanding is that at least by that time and following the Turkification of the region since conquest starting in 1170 or so the percentage of Greeks overall was 18% according to the Patriacates figures,so it it is probably fair to say that the cities were more Turkish than Greek. Does that percentage seem familiar? You are asking for a minority to displace the majority.

[B25]

STUD, Sotos is highlighting the hypocrisy of these people, if it was ok for the majority (Turkey) to do as they wished over the minority (Greeks), then why do they have a problem with the majority-minority situation in Cyprus?

From what Erolz is suggesting, the the minority has the right to self determination then why weren't the Greeks afforded the same pleasure?

Seems it is always a one way traffic were the scumbag turk is concerned.

[supporttheunderdog]

Yes but the hypocrisy runs both ways with the megalists on this forum still seeking domination IN ANATOLIA which would be over a people who do not see themselves as Greek. That or their aims involve the concept of lebensraum, ethnic cleansing and the like, but breaking in mind some at least are avowed supporters of the neo Nazi GD then that does not surprise me.

[Sotos]

STUD, Sotos is highlighting the hypocrisy of these people, if it was ok for the majority (Turkey) to do as they wished over the minority (Greeks), then why do they have a problem with the majority-minority situation in Cyprus?

From what Erolz is suggesting, the the minority has the right to self determination then why weren't the Greeks afforded the same pleasure?

Seems it is always a one way traffic were the scumbag turk is concerned.

Exactly right B25. If the Turks in Cyprus should have a right of self-determination then the same right should apply to the Greeks in Turkey! And if we are looking for excuses to ask for more than that then the Greek minority in Turkey would have a lot more excuses than the Turkish minority in Cyprus.

[Sotos]

Sotos

Can you identify any city in Anatolia that was majority Greek by say 1910 to 1912? My own understanding is that at least by that time and following the Turkification of the region since conquest starting in 1170 or so the percentage of Greeks overall was 18% according to the Patriacates figures,so it it is probably fair to say that the cities were more Turkish than Greek. Does that percentage seem familiar? You are asking for a minority to displace the majority.

Constantinople didn't fall to the Turks until 1453... how fast the Turks committed genocides and forced the Greeks to become a minority is not important. What is important is that the Turks forced the Greeks to become a minority. But nobody forced the Turks to become a minority in Cyprus. They are a minority here due to their own actions. So how on earth can the Turkish minority in Cyprus be entitled to any more rights than the Greek minority in Turkey?

[Maximus]

Much of Anatolia and some of the Balkans is Greek DNA.

The Ottomans stole this DNA and try to pass it off as their Turkish own.

The Turks are trying (doing) the same to the Cypriots in Cyprus now.

[Maximus]

Good People do not need laws to tell them how to act responsibly.

Bad people will break laws and try to find ways around them.

- Plato

[erolz66]

Constantinople didn't fall to the Turks until 1453... how fast the Turks committed genocides and forced the Greeks to become a minority is not important. What is important is that the Turks forced the Greeks to become a minority. But nobody forced the Turks to become a minority in Cyprus. They are a minority here due to their own actions. So how on earth can the Turkish minority in Cyprus be entitled to any more rights than the Greek minority in Turkey?

You still just do not get it do you Sotos. You refuse to see how, for the TC community and how they could express their rights to self determination, GC pursuing ENOSIS was different from them pursuing independence. You refuse to see it yet you KNOW that if there had been a TC majority in Cyprus when British rule was coming to and end, you would easily see the difference between those TC pursuing union with Turkey or pursuing independence. Believe that TC have not right self determination at all if you like. Believe that the GC choosing enosis (that excluded TC) rather than independence (that included) played no part in how the TC could exercise their right to self determination if you like. Believe whatever you like. It does not change the truth one iota. It does undermine our chances of building a better future having learnt from our past mistakes, but that's your choice.