Cyprus-Forum.com

[B25]

Same shit different name.

Bit like eoka, the 'organisation' and eoka b then ?

As a guest to Cyprus, you didn't have the right to any form of self determination, .....

And there we have the Cyprus problem from a TC perspective, historically and today as far as such views are common place amongst GC still, in a nutshell. GC are the 'owners' of Cyprus, with full and sole rights of ownership and TC are just 'guests', with no right other than to shut up and accept whatever the 'owners' tell them they should accept. It is exactly such a view that empowered those within the TC community that sought and seek partition and allowed Turkey to take the actions it did in 74 and get away with it.

Nonsense, it's your continued demand for self determination that is the problem, I gave you another perspective. Soon you'll be wanting to ethnically cleansed all the GCs from their own country.

as for your analogy above, it's BS again, more accurate would be TMT and the current 'TC' mindset.

[erolz66]

Nonsense, it's your continued demand for self determination that is the problem, ....

Everyone everywhere has the right to self determination and it is the fundamental right from which all others derive. The only 'variable' is through what 'grouping' that right is exercised for a given individual. That you seem to think GC have that right and TC do not IS the Cyprus problem. That you fucked up with enosis, which stopped TC being able to exercise that inalienable right they have through the grouping of a unitary Cypriot state and people IS the Cyprus problem. That you can not see and accept these simple realties IS the Cyprus problem.

[boulio]

eeryone is entitiled to self determination it just cant be at the expense of some one else.

[Sotos]

The TURKISH people have their self-determination in the place where they are the MAJORITY. In Cyprus what we have is a Turkish MINORITY. By DEFINITION an ethnic minority is NOT the same "people" as the majority. If they were they wouldn't be called an ethnic minority. Is the Greek minority in Turkey the same people as the Turks? NO. Does the Greek minority in Turkey have a self-determination right that would entitle them to ethnically cleanse part of the country and claim it as their own? NO. So you are talking BULLSHIT. You have always been different "people" because you are an ethnic minority and ethnic minorities do NOT have any self-determination right.

When the nation state of Turkey was formed as a nation state, it was formed as an inclusive nation state, that included all within its borders. Turkey did not define those within the geographical area of Turkey as a majority that were part of some other pre existing other nation and a minority 'others' that happened to live there and also had to also join this other pre existing nation whether they wanted to or not. All in Turkey were considered part of this new Turkish nation state, ethnic minorities included. By contrast the majority in Cyprus did not seek to create a Cypriot nation, that included TC. They said that they should be part of the pre existing nation of Greece, not just those that considered themselves Greek, but also all others that shared the geographical area as a homeland. If you can not see the difference then that is your problem. What made the TC a people with a separate and equal right to self determination (unlike the ethnic minorities in other nations, that either arrived in a pre existing nation or were included in the formation of the nation itself when it was formed) was the very fact that GC chose to not try and create a Cypriot nation that included the TC as an ethnic minority within it, but instead chose to try and force the union of the whole geographical area and all those who's homeland it was with a third external nation and in the NAME of a unitary Cypriot nation / people, that they said does not exist. ENOSIS was a fuck up. It was essentially unique in the formation of nation states following colonial rule - in that a majority of those ruled did not seek to rule themselves but sought to replace on external ruler with a different one. That 'uniqueness' , enosis and not independence, is why the status of the TC minority in Cyprus, at the point at which Cyprus was emerging from colonial rule is also 'unique'. This is the very point I have been making over and over and you deny over and over. It was a fuck up and you need to understand why it was a fuck if there is to be any chance we can create a new and better future for all Cypriots. Simply insisting over and over that it was not a fuck up has got us no where to date and will get us no where in the future.

What you say is bullshit from start to finish. When were the Greek people in Constantinople or Smyrna asked if they wanted their cities to be part of a country called TURKey? The Greeks in Asia Minor NEVER wanted such thing, they NEVER agreed to it and their opinion was NEVER asked.

[B25]

Well said Soto.
CASE CLOSED

[Lordo]

thats why we elect governments asshole. greece signed on the dotted line and honoured it. did you asshole honour the 1960 agreement you signed. like hell you have.

but you must now realise that next time you sign such a thing you will be made to honour it like last time. admittedly when they did it last they took an arm and a leg too.

[CBBB]

thats why we elect governments asshole. greece signed on the dotted line and honoured it. did you asshole honour the 1960 agreement you signed. like hell you have.

but you must now realise that next time you sign such a thing you will be made to honour it like last time. admittedly when they did it last they took an arm and a leg too.

You elect Governments that when the going gets tough they sack all the police and prosecutors!

[erolz66]

What you say is bullshit from start to finish. When were the Greek people in Constantinople or Smyrna asked if they wanted their cities to be part of a country called TURKey? The Greeks in Asia Minor NEVER wanted such thing, they NEVER agreed to it and their opinion was NEVER asked.

You still do not get it do you. I will try and make it as simple as possible for you. Imagine a scenario in 1960 where 55% (or 80 % if you prefer) of the population were TC and 45 % (or 20% if you prefer) GC. Then think about the difference between a future after British rule where all became just Cypriot and one where all became part of Turkey. Then convince yourself that in such a hypothetical scenario the TC would have had the right to impose this union of Cyprus with Turkey on the GC community, with the GC community having no effective say in this monumental decision about their own futures in their own shared homeland. Tell yourself that you really believe this. Tell yourself that the GC community would have simply agreed and accepted this future as 'democracy' and a genuine expression of the right to self determination of a unitary Cypriot people, without complaint or resistance. You know the truth of what would be your view in such a hypothetical situation but you will tell yourself otherwise because you have to do so, in order to be able to keep believing what you have to believe.

In the case of Turkey, all became just Turkish. It was not a case of all being forced to be part of some other pre existing nation. The difference is as obvious as your efforts to believe and convince yourselves that it is not.

[Lordo]

thats why we elect governments asshole. greece signed on the dotted line and honoured it. did you asshole honour the 1960 agreement you signed. like hell you have.

but you must now realise that next time you sign such a thing you will be made to honour it like last time. admittedly when they did it last they took an arm and a leg too.

You elect Governments that when the going gets tough they sack all the police and prosecutors!

you are confusing ottoman emperors with elected government. erdogan came to power with 35 percent of the vote.

you run out of keo or somefink.

[CBBB]

thats why we elect governments asshole. greece signed on the dotted line and honoured it. did you asshole honour the 1960 agreement you signed. like hell you have.

but you must now realise that next time you sign such a thing you will be made to honour it like last time. admittedly when they did it last they took an arm and a leg too.

You elect Governments that when the going gets tough they sack all the police and prosecutors!

you are confusing ottoman emperors with elected government. erdogan came to power with 35 percent of the vote.

you run out of keo or somefink.

Yes, drinking Warsteiner tonight.