Cyprus-Forum.com

[erolz66]

In Cyprus Turks are the minority and have no right for self-determination. You have this right in Turkey where you are the majority. Continue to believe otherwise... but no matter what you believe the pseudo state will remain a pseudo state because that land belongs mostly to us and so it couldn't be part of a Turkish self-determination.

In Cyprus the TC are CYPRIOT, as Cypriot as GC and with the same rights as GC individually and communally. That you wanted to destroy Cyprus as a sovereign nation and a unitary people and give it over to some new colonial ruler with enosis, all in the name of a Cypriot people you said did not even exist, does not mean we are any less Cypriot or any less deserving of our rights. The fact that by your pursuit of enosis you made us a separate people with separate and equal right to self determination does not mean we had a right to impose partition by force, nor have I ever claimed it did or does. What I am trying to get through to your thick skull is your insistence that you could and should have been able to both have union with Greece and at the same time insist that TC get to express their inalienable right to self determination as merely a minority within the unitary Cypriot people is fucking madness that has led us to where we are today. That you can not see this even after 50+ years of such a fuck up and still insist that you had and have every right to impose enosis on all Cypriots, in the name of a unitary Cypriot people that you sought to destroy by enosis is why we are not closer to a solution today than then.

If you can't respect the native people who are also the majority then yes you should fuck off. My ideal would be if the Turks had never invaded Cyprus in the first place. Second ideal would be for you to finally accept that you can't impose your will on the majority and accept democracy so we can live in peace with you like we do with the other minorities in Cyprus. Since we were unlucky to be invaded by Turks and since you don't show any desire to ever respect MAJORITY RULE which is a requirement of democracy then yes you should fuck off.

Yeah you are true Cypriots and we are just invaders. You have rights, we have the right to just do what you tell us or fuck off, even when you tell us our homeland can not be an independent nation free of outside rule and YOU tell us what nationality WE have to be in our own shared homeland to suit your needs. You are lucky that it was the Ottomans that invaded you in 1450 and not the Spanish or Portuguese or British or French or Dutch - for if you look at what happened to the 'native peoples' of the places these countries colonised from 1450 onwards then you would realise how lucky you are it was the ottomans.

[Sotos]

In Cyprus Turks are the minority and have no right for self-determination. You have this right in Turkey where you are the majority. Continue to believe otherwise... but no matter what you believe the pseudo state will remain a pseudo state because that land belongs mostly to us and so it couldn't be part of a Turkish self-determination.

In Cyprus the TC are CYPRIOT, as Cypriot as GC and with the same rights as GC individually and communally. That you wanted to destroy Cyprus as a sovereign nation and a unitary people and give it over to some new colonial ruler with enosis, all in the name of a Cypriot people you said did not even exist, does not mean we are any less Cypriot or any less deserving of our rights. The fact that by your pursuit of enosis you made us a separate people with separate and equal right to self determination does not mean we had a right to impose partition by force, nor have I ever claimed it did or does. What I am trying to get through to your thick skull is your insistence that you could and should have been able to both have union with Greece and at the same time insist that TC get to express their inalienable right to self determination as merely a minority within the unitary Cypriot people is fucking madness that has led us to where we are today. That you can not see this even after 50+ years of such a fuck up and still insist that you had and have every right to impose enosis on all Cypriots, in the name of a unitary Cypriot people that you sought to destroy by enosis is why we are not closer to a solution today than then.

Cyprus was like any other Greek island. We didn't try to destroy any Cypriot nation or any "unitary people" because such things did not exist. What existed is a majority of Greek population and a minority of Turks under British rule. You Turks NEVER said anything about a Cypriot nation and "unitary people". You ruled Cyprus for centuries and during your whole history on this island from your first day until today you made every effort to be separate and with privileges. Now you are trying to blame us that we supposedly tried to destroy something which you NEVER showed any desire creating or being part of? Excuses excuses!

If you can't respect the native people who are also the majority then yes you should fuck off. My ideal would be if the Turks had never invaded Cyprus in the first place. Second ideal would be for you to finally accept that you can't impose your will on the majority and accept democracy so we can live in peace with you like we do with the other minorities in Cyprus. Since we were unlucky to be invaded by Turks and since you don't show any desire to ever respect MAJORITY RULE which is a requirement of democracy then yes you should fuck off.

Yeah you are true Cypriots and we are just invaders. You have rights, we have the right to just do what you tell us or fuck off, even when you tell us our homeland can not be an independent nation free of outside rule and YOU tell us what nationality WE have to be in our own shared homeland to suit your needs. You are lucky that it was the Ottomans that invaded you in 1450 and not the Spanish or Portuguese or British or French or Dutch - for if you look at what happened to the 'native peoples' of the places these countries colonised from 1450 onwards then you would realise how lucky you are it was the ottomans.

You were ruling Cyprus for centuries... didn't see any Turks giving a fuck about any Cypriot nation and independence. Such thing didn't exist and the Turks wouldn't allow it to exist. In 1960 such thing could have been created for the very first time... and it wasn't your initiative... but again you made every effort to remain separate... insisting on privileges because you are TURKS... and wanting separate TURKISH municipalities etc etc. So basically everything you say is just a fairy tale you are making up and has nothing to do with reality and the actual history of Cyprus.

P.S Ottomans invaded Cyprus in 1571... trying to gain more than a century for your minority? And saying that one criminal is "nice" because he is not as bad as another criminal is classic! But for us the Turks were the worst. The others you mention are Christian European people and it would be much easier to assimilate any of their minorities.

[erolz66]

So basically everything you say is just a fairy tale you are making up and has nothing to do with reality and the actual history of Cyprus.

Yes it is a fairy tail that when Cyprus had a chance to finally become independent and be ruled not by outsiders but by Cypriots you CHOSE instead to want it to NOT be independent and to be ruled from and by those who were NOT Cypriot and not just for yourselves but to force this new colonialism on US as well. It is a fairy tale that in pursuing ENOSIS, that defined TC as part of some other people to GC and excluded them, and NOT independence that would have defined TC as part of a Cypriot people and could have included TC, you MADE TC more than a minority. These things, that are exactly what happened - have to be defined by you as 'fairy tales' because otherwise you would have to see and accept the mistakes you made.

You think the reason why the TC community gained the status and equality they did under the 1960 agreements is because TC are dirty barbarian invading thieves that always took and seek to take more than their fair share. The reality is they gained those things because YOU chose ENOSIS and tried to impose it on TC against their will using any means up to and including illegal ethnic violence rather than choosing independence.

If GC had only ever sought the Independence of Cyprus following then end of British rule, then the 1960 agreements would never have given the rights they did to the TC community, nor would they have needed to. If you had sought only independence then there would have been no basis or need for a treaty of Guarantee. If you had sought independence there could have been no Greek coup in Cyprus in 74. If you had sought independence then Turkey could never have gotten away with the forced division of Cyprus in 74. All of these things were BECAUSE you sought Enosis rather than independence and you tried to achieve it via the use of illegal ethnic violence. Still better to just blame the dirty Turks than have to face up to your own fuck ups, even if that means destroying any prospect of building a better future.

The 1960 agreements were unique in the pantheon of those nations that emerged from Colonial rule in the 40, 50 and 60's and the reason WHY they were unique is your pursuit of enosis and not independence. Enosis and the way you tried to impose it was your biggest fuck up then. Refusing to see and accept this simple truth is your biggest fuck up today.

[erolz66]

We didn't try to destroy any Cypriot nation or any "unitary people" because such things did not exist. What existed is a majority of Greek population and a minority of Turks under British rule.

So you do not believe in the right to self determination of peoples then ? Two different peoples living in the same island both under Colonial British rule. Both have a right to self determination. Yet somehow GC as one of those two separate peoples have such a right - and not just to rule themselves but also to determine who rules the other people who also live on the same island. This is what you are saying ? This is what you think is the intent and meaning of the 'right to self determination of peoples' the fundamental human right from which all others derive is it ? Are you really that deluded to think that we were distinct and separate peoples living on the same Island, but those the framed the right to self determination of peoples envisaged you have that right and us not ?

Maybe you need to re write the charters on the 'right of peoples to self determination' to be the 'right of peoples to self determination + the right to impose their will on other separate peoples if they are a numerically smaller people and live in the same geographical area'. Funny how its not written that way is it not ?

Better hope the French German and Spanish people do not work together and force something on the Cypriot people against their will on the basis that the Cypriot people are just a minority within the European people. Oh they did that already didn't they under the guise of the 'troika'.

[Sotos]

So basically everything you say is just a fairy tale you are making up and has nothing to do with reality and the actual history of Cyprus.

Yes it is a fairy tail that when Cyprus had a chance to finally become independent and be ruled not by outsiders but by Cypriots you CHOSE instead to want it to NOT be independent and to be ruled from and by those who were NOT Cypriot and not just for yourselves but to force this new colonialism on US as well.

If that is how you feel about it then why did you force Cyprus to be part of Ottoman empire for centuries? If we didn't have a chance for independence before is because Colonialists like you wouldn't let us have anything else other than being under your rule. When did YOU choose independence and the creation of single Cypriot nation? The answer is NEVER. Not during Ottoman rule when you had every power to apply it. Not after, not today, NEVER. I am honest person, you are not. I am honest and I say that as Greeks we wanted what every Greek liberated from foreign rule would want. You are not honest because you are trying to imply that the Turks in Cyprus wanted independence for Cyprus and the creation of a Cypriot nation when the TRUTH is that you NEVER wanted any of that. So set aside your fantasies and lets see some hard facts of your leadership advocating independence and a united Cypriot people. I am waiting.

It is a fairy tale that in pursuing ENOSIS, that defined TC as part of some other people to GC and excluded them, and NOT independence that would have defined TC as part of a Cypriot people and could have included TC, you MADE TC more than a minority. These things, that are exactly what happened - have to be defined by you as 'fairy tales' because otherwise you would have to see and accept the mistakes you made.

Here we go again with your lies and excuses. We have been separated for centuries because it suited you that way... with you getting rights and privileges on our expense. To say that it is our pursuing of Enosis which made you "other people", as if until then we were the same people, is nothing but a LIE.

You think the reason why the TC community gained the status and equality they did under the 1960 agreements is because TC are dirty barbarian invading thieves that always took and seek to take more than their fair share. The reality is they gained those things because YOU chose ENOSIS and tried to impose it on TC against their will using any means up to and including illegal ethnic violence rather than choosing independence.

The reality is that you gained those things because the British gave them to you as a reward for helping them get what they wanted in Cyprus. The ethnic violence is something YOU started because you couldn't accept that Cypriots could democratically take any decision. There is a video somewhere where Denktash admits that basically the Turks and the British wanted the same thing, so they ganged up against Greek Cypriots. If you want I will find it for you.

If GC had only ever sought the Independence of Cyprus following then end of British rule, then the 1960 agreements would never have given the rights they did to the TC community, nor would they have needed to. If you had sought only independence then there would have been no basis or need for a treaty of Guarantee. If you had sought independence there could have been no Greek coup in Cyprus in 74. If you had sought independence then Turkey could never have gotten away with the forced division of Cyprus in 74. All of these things were BECAUSE you sought Enosis rather than independence and you tried to achieve it via the use of illegal ethnic violence. Still better to just blame the dirty Turks than have to face up to your own fuck ups, even if that means destroying any prospect of building a better future.

Excuses excuses. You did a ton of crimes in Cyprus and now you are trying to find something to excuse yourselves. Why would we need ethnic violence in order to achieve enosis? All we needed would be a referendum like the ones that the British did in Gibraltar or Falklands. And when we started our liberation struggle that was against the British... not against any minority. It is you who sided with the British and you who attacked us and you who sought to stop enosis via the use of ethnic violence. Why would we need to blame the dirty Turks if the dirty Turks were not to be blamed? Why the Turks? Why not to blame the Egyptians or the Syrians or any other of our neighbors or any other nation which has a minority in Cyprus? You are blamed because you are the ones who always use force and violence to stop Cypriots from being free. You are the cancer of Cyprus.

[Sotos]

We didn't try to destroy any Cypriot nation or any "unitary people" because such things did not exist. What existed is a majority of Greek population and a minority of Turks under British rule.

So you do not believe in the right to self determination of peoples then ? Two different peoples living in the same island both under Colonial British rule. Both have a right to self determination. Yet somehow GC as one of those two separate peoples have such a right - and not just to rule themselves but also to determine who rules the other people who also live on the same island. This is what you are saying ? This is what you think is the intent and meaning of the 'right to self determination of peoples' the fundamental human right from which all others derive is it ? Are you really that deluded to think that we were distinct and separate peoples living on the same Island, but those the framed the right to self determination of peoples envisaged you have that right and us not ?

Maybe you need to re write the charters on the 'right of peoples to self determination' to be the 'right of peoples to self determination + the right to impose their will on other separate peoples if they are a numerically smaller people and live in the same geographical area'. Funny how its not written that way is it not ?

The UN charter for the right of peoples to self determination was created to free native people like us from the colonialism that took place the last centuries... not to give superpowers to the minorities created by the colonialists on the occupied territories. It is about freeing the native people from alien subjugation... not about internal sharing of power between the different ethnic groups. Furthermore the resolutions even explicitly allow the "integration into an independent State"... so enosis was perfectly legitimate.

Better hope the French German and Spanish people do not work together and force something on the Cypriot people against their will on the basis that the Cypriot people are just a minority within the European people. Oh they did that already didn't they under the guise of the 'troika'.

Troika is not just the EU. But about EU, nobody forced us to join them... we choose it... and we didn't need the permission of any minority. If we don't like the EU we can leave.

[erolz66]

The UN charter for the right of peoples to self determination was created to free native people like us from the colonialism that took place the last centuries... not to give superpowers to the minorities created by the colonialists on the occupied territories. It is about freeing the native people from alien subjugation... not about internal sharing of power between the different ethnic groups. Furthermore the resolutions even explicitly allow the "integration into an independent State"... so enosis was perfectly legitimate.

Well thanks for just reiterating all the points I have been trying to make. In 1960 TC were not colonisers, they were subjects of British colonialism. Nor were they some kind of ethnic elite, dominating economic and political power as would be the case for 'colonisers'. They were just in fact a subjugated group in Cyprus along with GC. We could have both freed ourselves from British colonialism, together via independence. Instead you chose to try and free yourselves from British colonialism and at the same time force a new colonialism on TC, with no regard for their wishes at all. That is why enosis and not independence was such a fuck up. Its why enosis and not independence changed the status of the TC community. It is why it drove many 'normal' TC into supporting those within the TC community that sought partition. Which is exactly the point I have been making for all these pages of post.

Sure YOU define TC as 'colonials' in Cyprus but no one else seriously considerd them as such by 1960. The colonial power in Cyprus in 1960 was the British and had been for nearly 100 years at that point. Not did the TC community in Cyprus at that time enjoy any of the 'privileges' relative to GC that would have marked them out as 'colonial rules'. That you considered TC in such a way then, in order to try an impose on them the very thing you were trying to remove from yourselves, was your fuck then and a major factor in getting us into the mess we are all in today. That you STILL chose to believe it today is your fuck up today and is the biggest block from your side on the chances of us building a better future tomorrow having learnt from our fucks ups in the past.

[Sotos]

The UN charter for the right of peoples to self determination was created to free native people like us from the colonialism that took place the last centuries... not to give superpowers to the minorities created by the colonialists on the occupied territories. It is about freeing the native people from alien subjugation... not about internal sharing of power between the different ethnic groups. Furthermore the resolutions even explicitly allow the "integration into an independent State"... so enosis was perfectly legitimate.

Well thanks for just reiterating all the points I have been trying to make. In 1960 TC were not colonisers, they were subjects of British colonialism. Nor were they some kind of ethnic elite, dominating economic and political power as would be the case for 'colonisers'. They were just in fact a subjugated group in Cyprus along with GC. We could have both freed ourselves from British colonialism, together via independence. Instead you chose to try and free yourselves from British colonialism and at the same time force a new colonialism on TC, with no regard for their wishes at all. That is why enosis and not independence was such a fuck up. Its why enosis and not independence changed the status of the TC community. It is why it drove many 'normal' TC into supporting those within the TC community that sought partition. Which is exactly the point I have been making for all these pages of post.

Sure YOU define TC as 'colonials' in Cyprus but no one else seriously considerd them as such by 1960. The colonial power in Cyprus in 1960 was the British and had been for nearly 100 years at that point. Not did the TC community in Cyprus at that time enjoy any of the 'privileges' relative to GC that would have marked them out as 'colonial rules'. That you considered TC in such a way then, in order to try an impose on them the very thing you were trying to remove from yourselves, was your fuck then and a major factor in getting us into the mess we are all in today. That you STILL chose to believe it today is your fuck up today and is the biggest block from your side on the chances of us building a better future tomorrow having learnt from our fucks ups in the past.

So because the British took over for 70 years you became natives and not colonizers? Nonsense. Many colonies changed hands from one colonizer to another. This doesnt turn previous colonizers into natives.. unless they meanwhile assimilated. Our fuck up was that we had been too nice to you and we compromised too easily. I am still waiting from you to tell me when the Turkish people supported independance and a united Cypriot nation. You dont answer because the answer is NEVER... outside of your fantasies!!

[Lordo]

sotos sod off to greece you stupid boy. cyprus was a greek island for 200 years before christ and you were colonisers too.

now sod off.