Cyprus-Forum.com

by **GreekIslandGirl** » Wed Feb 27, 2013 12:04 am

There will never be a gas pipeline for this deal to happen. There is not sufficient gas to make a pipeline worthwhile. The discussions have already moved on to submarine cables, and the route is more direct to Crete and the Peloponnese. Also, the companies buying the drilling rights have a say in conversion processes and transit modes - not just the RoC.

- The most we can hope is that the bankers who force bailout loans on us in return for these assets show a little mercy and improve Cyprus-Greece's credit-worthiness by showing the Turks the game is over and there are no crumbs for them to hang around for.

by **Demonax** » Wed Feb 27, 2013 3:50 am

Pyrpolizer wrote:Demonax,I have my own different view on the events of Cyprus and I reached this conclusion as the only logical possibility. Starting from the events of 1974 my conclussion is that the coup and the invasion were agreed in advance between the CIA-the Greek hunta-and the local Nationalists and Turkey and please don't try to sell me the crap that it was Eoka B , the core was the same as Eoka A. The agreement was for DOUBLE ENOSIS. What went wrong is that Turkey got more land than what was agreed. If they weren't that stupid and had taken say about 20% who would stop the international community from recognising the pseudo and hence the result being DOUBLE ENOSIS? Desy is the party that houses a)capitalists b)Nationalists c) the general right wingers. What do the these have in common-especially the Nationalists??? Not much you think? Well... Wasn't it Klerides who tried to trick the GC by asking us to give him another 16 months to solve the CP? How do you think he would solve it other that some mid distance on Anan Plan 3 by which the GCs would still lose their properties and most propably end us like Anan Plan 5 in other words the solution would collapse and we would end up to DOUBLE ENOSIS again.

I think you make some valid points. But a couple of things make me cautious. Firstly, Anastasiades is only President with the support of parties who were (and still are) absolutely opposed to the Annan Plan. He is not going to be left in charge to negotiate on his own. He also knows that there is no support amongst the Cyprus public for a new style Annan Plan. Any new plan will need to be supported by most political parties to get through a vote and he would not dare go to a vote and have such a plan rejected a second time.

A lot of people who voted against the Annan Plan have voted for Anastasiades. This does not mean they now think they were mistaken. It just means they are giving Anastasiades the benefit of the doubt. Time will tell. I've not followed his career as close as you have so I can't judge him on his past actions. Only that supporting the Annan Plan makes him look very naive or calculating or just plain wrong on an issue of great importance. By any criteria such a misjudgement should have finished his career. But like I said, there is no way his coalition backers Diko and Evroko will allow him to negotiate any such plan. There is even talk about Anastasiades not even taking part in UN negotiations and that a Diko official will be appointed instead. Perhaps this was part of the election pact...

I also agree that there is a temptation to use the gas reserves as a 'bribe' to get Turkey out of Cyprus. I'm sure there are people thinking this at the moment. That is, Turkey withdraws from Cyprus and we allow gas exports to go to Turkey from Cyprus. Even the Archbishop has already said this could be a consideration! I don't know enough about this to comment though.

by **Demonax** » Wed Feb 27, 2013 5:28 am

GreekIslandGirl wrote:There will never be a gas pipeline for this deal to happen. There is not sufficient gas to make a pipeline worthwhile. The discussions have already moved on to submarine cables, and the route is more direct to Crete and the Peloponnese. Also, the companies buying the drilling rights have a say in conversion processes and transit modes - not just the RoC..

The last I checked we were building an LNG plant to export the gas. I can't see us building a pipeline to Turkey as long as Turkey remains hostile to Cyprus. Where is the incentive? I can't see on what grounds Cyprus can co-operate with Turkey on gas exports.

by **boulio** » Wed Feb 27, 2013 4:12 pm

The agreement was for DOUBLE ENOSIS. What went wrong is that Turkey got more land than what was agreed. If they weren't that stupid and had taken say about 20% who would stop the international community from recognising the pseudo and hence the result being DOUBLE ENOSIS

is there evidence to this that there was a agreement between the junta in athens and turkey for a agreed partition and then double enosis?

by **Pyrpolizer** » Wed Feb 27, 2013 9:34 pm

boulio wrote:
The agreement was for DOUBLE ENOSIS. What went wrong is that Turkey got more land than what was agreed. If they weren't that stupid and had taken say about 20% who would stop the international community from recognising the pseudo and hence the result being DOUBLE ENOSIS

is there evidence to this that there was a agreement between the junta in athens and turkey for a agreed partition and then double enosis?

The CIA and the American embassy were like a state within a state in 1974. The junta was doing exactly as told by the American Embassy.
Greece did not want Enosis because they loved the Greek Cypriots.Greece wanted Cyprus to EXPAND. Well if the GCs would donate them all Cyprus that would be fine for them, however as the years were passing by, they were not getting anything, so what would be the problem (according to the idiots of junta) if they could get 80% of it right away? That was the idea behind it.

There is plenty of evidence that it was an agreement between the CIA-Greek junta-Local EokasB + leaders of National guard with Turkey. While the Turkish ships were within 5 miles from shore and could be watched with naked eye the orders from GEEF were HOLD YOUR FIRE, THEY ARE DOING EXERCISE.The invasion started , the Turks landed started advancing and the orders were still HOLD YOUR FIRE, THEY ARE DOING EXERCISE.
Greece never reacted to the Invasion.They sent a couple of submarines, then changed their minds, they were about to send troops, changed their minds again, in the end they send that plane with the commandos making sure they would arrive dead or half dead. Everything was staged...
There is also evidence from the soldiers who took part in the war, that it was a clear "sold out and treason". Many mainland Greek officers appeared to have maps in their hands showing them exactly the areas that the Turks were supposed to take. And they were cursing when the Turks were taking areas that were not in the maps.Those officers and soldiers who actually fought were those who got trapped between the war lines and had no other option.More than half of our soldiers just renegated together with their odfficers as soon as they realized what was going on. And of course the fact that the "cyprus records- "o fakellos tis Kyprou" is still kept SEALED in Athens.

And the biggest evidence of all is VAROSHIA, yep that was not in the map either :wink:

And the wise guy Klerides who knew it all along that as long as the Turks would be facing resistance they would continue advancing. What a wise guy huh!! This is the man we had for "president in 1974" the one who knew that we should let the Turks do their job easy and they would stop at the right lines on the map

by **Pyrpolizer** » Wed Feb 27, 2013 9:46 pm

Demonax wrote:
Pyrpolizer wrote:Demonax,I have my own different view on the events of Cyprus and I reached this conclusion as the only logical possibility. Starting from the events of 1974 my conclussion is that the coup and the invasion were agreed in advance between the CIA-the Greek hunta-and the local Nationalists and Turkey and please don't try to sell me the crap that it was Eoka B , the core was the same as Eoka A. The agreement was for DOUBLE ENOSIS. What went wrong is that Turkey got more land than what was agreed. If they weren't that stupid and had taken say about 20% who would stop the international community from recognising the pseudo and hence the result being DOUBLE ENOSIS? Desy is the party that houses a)capitalists b)Nationalists c) the general right wingers. What do the these have in common-especially the Nationalists??? Not much you think? Well... Wasn't it Klerides who tried to trick the GC by asking us to give him another 16 months to solve the CP? How do you think he would solve it other that some mid distance on Anan Plan 3 by which the GCs would still lose their properties and most propably end us like Anan Plan 5 in other words the solution would collapse and we would end up to DOUBLE ENOSIS again.

I think you make some valid points. But a couple of things make me cautious. Firstly, Anastasiades is only President with the support of parties who were (and still are) absolutely opposed to the Annan Plan. He is not going to be left in charge to negotiate on his own. He also knows that there is no support amongst the Cyprus public for a new style Annan Plan. Any new plan will need to be supported by most political parties to get through a vote and he would not dare go to a vote and have such a plan rejected a second time.

A lot of people who voted against the Annan Plan have voted for Anastasiades. This does not mean they now think they were mistaken. It just means they are giving Anastasiades the benefit of the doubt. Time will tell. I've not followed his career as close as you have so I can't judge him on his past actions. Only that supporting the Annan Plan makes him look very naive or calculating or just plain wrong on an issue of great importance. By any criteria such a misjudgement should have finished his career. But like I said, there is no way his coalition backers Diko and Evroko will allow him to negotiate any such plan. There is even talk about Anastasiades not even taking part in UN negotiations and that a Diko official will be appointed instead. Perhaps this was part of the election pact...

I also agree that there is a temptation to use the gas reserves as a 'bribe' to get Turkey out of Cyprus. I'm sure there are people thinking this at the moment. That is, Turkey withdraws from Cyprus and we allow gas exports to go to Turkey from Cyprus. Even the Archbishop has already said this could be a consideration! I don't know enough about this to comment though.

What you said about those parties that supported Anastasiades is true, and that's the only thing that can ease my fears about this guy concerning the way he will handle the Cyprus problem.

On the other hand people voted for him because he seems the most suitable to handle the economic crisis and get us out of this hell.

There is a lot of hypocricy among our politicians though, I was really shocked when I heard that Christos Klerides the #1opposer and most convincing analyst of the Anan Plan, became the head of Anastasiades election campaign office!!

NB. Anastasiades appeared in the early 80s as a little roaring lion in the parliament. He was fun to listen to. Who would ever imagine this fonakla would ever be our President

by **Demonax** » Tue Mar 05, 2013 12:19 am

I think the Turks are pretty scared of Anastasiades because he has good connections in the EU hierarchy as does Cassoulides. He can also play the 'I supported the Annan Plan' card and portray the Turks as the obstacle to any agreement especially as Eroglu has zero credibility and Erdogan is seen as something of a buffoon and a regional bully. Turkey is now dealing with someone who is seen as very reasonable and genuine about reaching a solution. The reality is that this means he can drive a very hard bargain and make Turkey appear as intransigent and inflexible.

by **repulsewarrior** » Tue Mar 05, 2013 7:30 am

Demonax wrote:I think the Turks are pretty scared of Anastasiades because he has good connections in the EU hierarchy as does Cassoulides. He can also play the 'I supported the Annan Plan' card and portray the Turks as the obstacle to any agreement especially as Eroglu has zero credibility and Erdogan is seen as something of a buffoon and a regional bully. Turkey is now dealing with someone who is seen as very reasonable and genuine about reaching a solution. The reality is that this means he can drive a very hard bargain and make Turkey appear as intransigent and inflexible.

good point!

by **Viewpoint** » Tue Mar 05, 2013 8:46 am

Demonax wrote:I think the Turks are pretty scared of Anastasiades because he has good connections in the EU hierarchy as does Cassoulides. He can also play the 'I supported the Annan Plan' card and portray the Turks as the obstacle to any agreement especially as Eroglu has zero credibility and Erdogan is seen as something of a buffoon and a regional bully. Turkey is now dealing with someone who is seen as very reasonable and genuine about reaching a solution. The reality is that this means he can drive a very hard bargain and make Turkey appear as intransigent and inflexible.

When lets see it? all talk and no action and definately no results.

by **Pyrpolizer** » Tue Mar 05, 2013 10:07 am

Viewpoint wrote:
Demonax wrote:I think the Turks are pretty scared of Anastasiades because he has good connections in the EU hierarchy as does Cassoulides. He can also play the 'I supported the Annan Plan' card and portray the Turks as the obstacle to any agreement especially as Eroglu has zero credibility and Erdogan is seen as something of a buffoon and a regional bully. Turkey is now dealing with someone who is seen as very reasonable and genuine about reaching a solution. The reality is that this means he can drive a very hard bargain and make Turkey appear as intransigent and inflexible.

When lets see it? all talk and no action and definately no results.

That's it!! We need results. We are tired of this game of who looks good and who looks bad. They haven't brought us anything of substance