Cyprus-Forum.com

[GreekIslandGirl]

I have the feeling GR! got 'arrested' after posting all that treasonous crap the other day.

the only people who are posting treasonable crap are those who seek the destruction of the ROC and its absorption by Greece and/or Turkey

Cyprus is already Greek; so no treasonable assertions there. The only treason is to wish Turkey to govern Cyprus. Regardless, being foreign, it's not up to you to dictate for Cyprus.

[supporttheunderdog]

I have the feeling GR! got 'arrested' after posting all that treasonous crap the other day.

the only people who are posting treasonable crap are those who seek the destruction of the ROC and its absorption by Greece and/or Turkey

Cyprus is already Greek; so no treasonable assertions there. The only treason is to wish Turkey to govern Cyprus. Regardless, being foreign, it's not up to you to dictate for Cyprus.

So you advocate the destruction of the Republic? It was your kind in that in 1963, 67 and 1974 that gave the Turks the excuses they were looking for,

[GreekIslandGirl]

I have the feeling GR! got 'arrested' after posting all that treasonous crap the other day.

the only people who are posting treasonable crap are those who seek the destruction of the ROC and its absorption by Greece and/or Turkey

Cyprus is already Greek; so no treasonable assertions there. The only treason is to wish Turkey to govern Cyprus. Regardless, being foreign, it's not up to you to dictate for Cyprus.

So you advocate the destruction of the Republic? It was your kind in that in 1963, 67 and 1974 that gave the Turks the excuses they were looking for,

It was the Brits who brought in the Turks - so it is your kind who continue this divisive policy!

[Piratis]

I have the feeling GR! got 'arrested' after posting all that treasonous crap the other day.

the only people who are posting treasonable crap are those who seek the destruction of the ROC and its absorption by Greece and/or Turkey

Cyprus is already Greek; so no treasonable assertions there. The only treason is to wish Turkey to govern Cyprus. Regardless, being foreign, it's not up to you to dictate for Cyprus.

So you advocate the destruction of the Republic? It was your kind in that in 1963, 67 and 1974 that gave the Turks the excuses they were looking for,

There would be no 1963, 67 and 1974 if the British colonialists respected the democratically expressed will of the vast majority of the Cypriot people and allowed Cyprus to be part of the Greek state, as it had previously happened with most other Greek islands and territories.

I should remind you that the Republic of Cyprus was not a result of the free will of the Cypriot people, but it was something that the British and the Turks blackmailed us and forced us to accept (threatening us with genocide and ethnic cleansing).

This so called "independence" (with foreign bases, foreign armies, foreign judges of the supreme court etc) that we were forced to accept only served the interests of those who imposed it as it allowed them to maintain control over our island. It did not serve the interests of Cypriots and Greeks in general, since it kept our nation divided and weakened, and this is the reason (as opposed to any made up excuses) that the Turks were able to invade and occupy the north part of Cyprus in 1974.

Funny how the British are so willing to hold referenda when they know that the results will suit them (e.g. Gibraltar, Falklands) but when they know that the results would not be favorable to them they act in the most undemocratic ways and show total desrespect to the will of the people.

So, supporttheunderdog, the fact is that your nation has been and continues to be hostile to ours. Since you live in Cyprus you should have showed some respect to the people of this island and separate yourself from the actions of your country. Unfortunately not only you don't seem to recognize the wrongful actions of your governments against us (which includes the imposition of some pseudo-independence on us by force) but it seems your disrespect goes even further, expecting that because you forced Cyprus to be a separate country we should now also forget our ethnicity.

[DrCyprus]

I have the feeling GR! got 'arrested' after posting all that treasonous crap the other day.

the only people who are posting treasonable crap are those who seek the destruction of the ROC and its absorption by Greece and/or Turkey

Cyprus is already Greek; so no treasonable assertions there. The only treason is to wish Turkey to govern Cyprus. Regardless, being foreign, it's not up to you to dictate for Cyprus.

So you advocate the destruction of the Republic? It was your kind in that in 1963, 67 and 1974 that gave the Turks the excuses they were looking for,

There would be no 1963, 67 and 1974 if the British colonialists respected the democratically expressed will of the vast majority of the Cypriot people and allowed Cyprus to be part of the Greek state, as it had previously happened with most other Greek islands and territories.

I should remind you that the Republic of Cyprus was not a result of the free will of the Cypriot people, but it was something that the British and the Turks blackmailed us and forced us to accept (threatening us with genocide and ethnic cleansing).

This so called "independence" (with foreign bases, foreign armies, foreign judges of the supreme court etc) that we were forced to accept only served the interests of those who imposed it as it allowed them to maintain control over our island. It did not serve the interests of Cypriots and Greeks in general, since it kept our nation divided and weakened, and this is the reason (as opposed to any made up excuses) that the Turks were able to invade and occupy the north part of Cyprus in 1974.

Funny how the British are so willing to hold referenda when they know that the results will suit them (e.g. Gibraltar, Falklands) but when they know that the results would not be favorable to them they act in the most undemocratic ways and show total desrespect to the will of the people.

So, supporttheunderdog, the fact is that your nation has been and continues to be hostile to ours. Since you live in Cyprus you should have showed some respect to the people of this island and separate yourself from the actions of your country. Unfortunately not only you don't seem to recognize the wrongful actions of your governments against us (which includes the imposition of some pseudo-independence on us by force) but it seems your disrespect goes even further, expecting that because you forced Cyprus to be a separate country we should now also forget our ethnicity.

The Christian Orthodox Cypriot church paid dearly to gain their independent autocefalus status from the rest of the Byzantine empire churches. They did that to achieve economical independence and let Cypriot wealth stay in Cyprus.

We are ethnically Greek, but that doesn't mean we can't enjoy the awesome benefits of being a small independent country. The TC who consider Cyprus their motherland and not Turkey can also share the country with us, just as they have been doing since 1571.

Whilst everyone and their mothers in Europe are trying to split up from their momma-countries into smaller independent yet affiliated mini-countries we are still dreaming of giving up our sovereignity to someone else? They are just going to take and control your money, and take away your power.

^correction... We already lost everything anyways. Our money was squandered by Catastrophias, and now Merkelstasiades is gonna sell the entirety of our national sovereignity to Troika.

[supporttheunderdog]

Cyprus sold its sovereignty when it joined the EU for the wrong reasons - thinking the EU would help against Turkey - big joke - Turkey is more important to the EU as trading partner than Cyprus. The EU - Turkey trade balance is beywen 5 and 24 Billion a year on trade of beyween 80 and 124 bilion and is about 4% of EU exports. EU-Cyprus on the other hand is only about 5 Billion - and the money talks.

[Oceanside50]

Cyprus sold its sovereignty when it joined the EU for the wrong reasons - thinking the EU would help against Turkey - big joke - Turkey is more important to the EU as trading partner than Cyprus. The EU - Turkey trade balance is beywen 5 and 24 Billion a year on trade of beyween 80 and 124 bilion and is about 4% of EU exports. EU-Cyprus on the other hand is only about 5 Billion - and the money talks.

Who did you say is more important? A country filled with "koukofous" that produce widgets that anyother country can produce or Cyprus and Greece that will provide Europe with cheap energy for the next 150 years? Widgets or abundant clean energy?

[Piratis]

The Christian Orthodox Cypriot church paid dearly to gain their independent autocefalus status from the rest of the Byzantine empire churches. They did that to achieve economical independence and let Cypriot wealth stay in Cyprus.

We are ethnically Greek, but that doesn't mean we can't enjoy the awesome benefits of being a small independent country. The TC who consider Cyprus their motherland and not Turkey can also share the country with us, just as they have been doing since 1571.

Whilst everyone and their mothers in Europe are trying to split up from their momma-countries into smaller independent yet affiliated mini-countries we are still dreaming of giving up our sovereignity to someone else? They are just going to take and control your money, and take away your power.

^correction... We already lost everything anyways. Our money was squandered by Catastrophias, and now Merkelstasiades is gonna sell the entirety of our national sovereignity to Troika.

Those who split-up or are trying to split-up in Europe are different nations who involuntarily found themselves being part of another country. This is not the case between Cyprus and the rest of Greece. We are the same nation which was kept divided against our will. A better comparison would be between East and West Germany. Would the Germans be better off united or divided? I think the answer is clear.

In general, having an independent mini-country does have certain pros, but it also has several cons. This is one of the main reasons EU was created, an attempt to have most of the pros of smaller independent countries without most of the cons. Apparently this is not working. We would either have to move to further integration (i.e. giving up even more sovereignty and independence) or EU will eventually fail.

Now, if we were Luxembourg, the pros and cons could be weighted and probably our conclusion would be that having an independent mini-country is better.

But we are Cyprus, an island in a strategic location where a true independence was not even an option. One of the main disadvantages of mini-countries is their inability to defend themselves. This might not matter much if you are Iceland and nobody cares to invade you, but when you are Cyprus this matters a lot. If from the 1950s (or even earlier) the British had allowed Cyprus to be part of the Greek state, then we would have been far more secure. Rhodes, which also has a Muslim minority and which is even closer to Turkey than we are, united with the rest of Greece in 1948. No part of Rhodes is occupied by Turkey today.

Just to be clear I am not advocating union with Greece today. The damage is already done. What I am saying is that the pseudo-independence that was forced on Cyprus was serving the interests of those who forced it on us and not the interests of the Cypriot people. What I am also saying, and it seems you agree with me, is that just because we accepted this pseudo-independence (after being blackmailed), it doesn't mean we also accepted to give up our ethnicity.

The vast majority of Cypriots are Greek and the only reason that Cyprus is not part of the Greek state like Crete, Rhodes and most other Greek islands is that the British and the Turks didn't respect the will of the Cypriot people and they forced their own terms instead. This should be made perfectly clear to any foreigner who might assume that the independence of Cyprus was a result of the free will of Cypriots and then get confused when he sees all the Greek flags.

[DrCyprus]

The Christian Orthodox Cypriot church paid dearly to gain their independent autocefalus status from the rest of the Byzantine empire churches. They did that to achieve economical independence and let Cypriot wealth stay in Cyprus.

We are ethnically Greek, but that doesn't mean we can't enjoy the awesome benefits of being a small independent country. The TC who consider Cyprus their motherland and not Turkey can also share the country with us, just as they have been doing since 1571.

Whilst everyone and their mothers in Europe are trying to split up from their momma-countries into smaller independent yet affiliated mini-countries we are still dreaming of giving up our sovereignity to someone else? They are just going to take and control your money, and take away your power.

^correction... We already lost everything anyways. Our money was squandered by Catastrophias, and now Merkelstasiades is gonna sell the entirety of our national sovereignity to Troika.

Those who split-up or are trying to split-up in Europe are different nations who involuntarily found themselves being part of another country. This is not the case between Cyprus and the rest of Greece. We are the same nation which was kept divided against our will. A better comparison would be between East and West Germany. Would the Germans be better off united or divided? I think the answer is clear.

In general, having an independent mini-country does have certain pros, but it also has several cons. This is one of the main reasons EU was created, an attempt to have most of the pros of smaller independent countries without most of the cons. Apparently this is not working. We would either have to move to further integration (i.e. giving up even more sovereignty and independence) or EU will eventually fail.

Now, if we were Luxembourg, the pros and cons could be weighted and probably our conclusion would be that having an independent mini-country is better.

But we are Cyprus, an island in a strategic location where a true independence was not even an option. One of the main disadvantages of mini-countries is their inability to defend themselves. This might not matter much if you are Iceland and nobody cares to invade you, but when you are Cyprus this matters a lot. If from the 1950s (or even earlier) the British had allowed Cyprus to be part of the Greek state, then we would have been far more secure. Rhodes, which also has a Muslim minority and which is even closer to Turkey than we are, united with the rest of Greece in 1948. No part of Rhodes is occupied by Turkey today.

Just to be clear I am not advocating union with Greece today. The damage is already done. What I am saying is that the pseudo-independence that was forced on Cyprus was serving the interests of those who forced it on us and not the interests of the Cypriot people. What I am also saying, and it seems you agree with me, is that just because we accepted this pseudo-independence (after being blackmailed), it doesn't mean we also accepted to give up our ethnicity.

The vast majority of Cypriots are Greek and the only reason that Cyprus is not part of the Greek state like Crete, Rhodes and most other Greek islands is that the British and the Turks didn't respect the will of the Cypriot people and they forced their own terms instead. This should be made perfectly clear to any foreigner who might assume that the independence of Cyprus was a result of the free will of Cypriots and then get confused when he sees all the Greek flags.

You are entirely right. Our 'independence' was pretty much a deal between Turkey and the British empire. All the same, I think that right now we find ourselves in an entirely different situation.

http://www.eurasianet.org/node/62990

[Jerry]

The Christian Orthodox Cypriot church paid dearly to gain their independent autocefalus status from the rest of the Byzantine empire churches. They did that to achieve economical independence and let Cypriot wealth stay in Cyprus.

We are ethnically Greek, but that doesn't mean we can't enjoy the awesome benefits of being a small independent country. The TC who consider Cyprus their motherland and not Turkey can also share the country with us, just as they have been doing since 1571.

Whilst everyone and their mothers in Europe are trying to split up from their momma-countries into smaller independent yet affiliated mini-countries we are still dreaming of giving up our sovereignity to someone else? They are just going to take and control your money, and take away your power.

^correction... We already lost everything anyways. Our money was squandered by Catastrophias, and now Merkelstasiades is gonna sell the entirety of our national sovereignity to Troika.

Those who split-up or are trying to split-up in Europe are different nations who involuntarily found themselves being part of another country. This is not the case between Cyprus and the rest of Greece. We are the same nation which was kept divided against our will. A better comparison would be between East and West Germany. Would the Germans be better off united or divided? I think the answer is clear.

In general, having an independent mini-country does have certain pros, but it also has several cons. This is one of the main reasons EU was created, an attempt to have most of the pros of smaller independent countries without most of the cons. Apparently this is not working. We would either have to move to further integration (i.e. giving up even more sovereignty and independence) or EU will eventually fail.

Now, if we were Luxembourg, the pros and cons could be weighted and probably our conclusion would be that having an independent mini-country is better.

But we are Cyprus, an island in a strategic location where a true independence was not even an option. One of the main disadvantages of mini-countries is their inability to defend themselves. This might not matter much if you are Iceland and nobody cares to invade you, but when you are Cyprus this matters a lot. If from the 1950s (or even earlier) the British had allowed Cyprus to be part of the Greek state, then we would have been far more secure. Rhodes, which also has a Muslim minority and which is even closer to Turkey than we are, united with the rest of Greece in 1948. No part of Rhodes is occupied by Turkey today.

Just to be clear I am not advocating union with Greece today. The damage is already done. What I am saying is that the pseudo-independence that was forced on Cyprus was serving the interests of those who forced it on us and not the interests of the Cypriot people. What I am also saying, and it seems you agree with me, is that just because we accepted this pseudo-independence (after being blackmailed), it doesn't mean we also accepted to give up our ethnicity.

The vast majority of Cypriots are Greek and the only reason that Cyprus is not part of the Greek state like Crete, Rhodes and most other Greek islands is that the British and the Turks didn't respect the will of the Cypriot people and they forced their own terms instead. This should be made perfectly clear to any foreigner who might assume that the independence of Cyprus was a result of the free will of Cypriots and then get confused when he sees all the Greek flags.

Your analysis is spot on but Makarios made the big mistake of ignoring the determination of the big bad wolf to the north to regain Cyprus. Instead of confronting the UK he should have accepted the offer of home rule and built on that to achieve true independence in the future.