Cyprus-Forum.com

[Piratis]

Yes it did!!!!!! You conviniently keep forgetting that it was GC that wanted union with Greece. Not Turks with Turkey.

So what? Union with Greece was our 100% democratic right.

I think it would have fine for Turks to be part of Greece but you have a tradition of cleansing all Greek lands of non Greek citizens. Crete is a perfect example. What do you think would have happened to TC if enosis were achieved Pirates? All Turks to the mainland-that's what. So stop spouting off about democracy and human rights when your record is deplorable at best.

Who have this tradition are the Turks. If they didn't have this tradition they would still be somewhere in Mongolia, not in Mediterranean. As a Turk you should be the last one on ether accusing others about their human rights record. What you give is a theory that never happened. I talk with facts, and the facts say that you are the ones who oppressed us for centuries and you are the ones who performed ethnic cleansing against us. (and against others of course)

The point you fail to see and refuse to accept is that GCs started this conflict and the Turks finished it. Stop making excuses about Ottoman oppression. We are talking about modern history here. You are simply trying to justify the means.

I see. So the centuries of oppression against us are too old and do not count, and the decades of the violations of our human rights that continue until today are excused, and the only thing that counts in history are the 15 years that the GCs have been bad. History is continuous. It doesn't begin and end whenever it suits you.

Where the hell did you come up with this 95%????? Do you have sources or are you again pulling numbers out of your ass to justify your agenda?

Centuries of Ottoman oppression + 3 decades of Turkish Occupation VS 1 decade that the GCs have been bad. Do the math. Prove me wrong by saying that it is not 95% but the 93% of our common history in Cyprus that the Turks were making the mistakes and the crimes.

Please get your head out of your ass and look at reality. Sometimes you sound like an idiot.

Sorry about that. Not all of us can sound as intelligent as you .

[2fan]

[quote="PiratisCenturies of Ottoman oppression + 3 decades of Turkish Occupation VS 1 decade that the GCs have been bad. Do the math. Prove me wrong by saying that it is not 95% but the 93% of our common history in Cyprus that the Turks were making the mistakes and the crimes.

:[/quote]


How old are you? You sound like a schoolyard boy?

[Piratis]

If you try to put yourself in our shoes you too wouldn't want the island to join to Turkey if we happened to be in the majority.

Sure. On the other hand if we were in your shoes nobody would offer us an alternative and talking about an independent Cyprus would be a joke. Do you really think that Turkey would even discuss whether Cyprus should be part of her if it was made by 82% TCs???

That ENOSIS came first is a historical fact.You can't argue with that.

Of course I can. Before that came the centuries were we were the slaves of others and the refusal of those others to allow to us to decide the destiny of our land in a democratic and peaceful way. We fought against our masters for liberation. There is nothing wrong with this cause and it was not to first time we tried. (e.g. in 1821 during the Greek revolution we revolted also. The result was the extermination of our leadership and 20.000 GCs were forced to leave from the island)

If the Ottomans wanted to they could have forced assimilation,and when the time came to lease the island to the UK,there would be no Greek speaking Christians left on the island.

They did try. If they didn't TCs would not exist. They could of course exterminate everybody that they could not force to change his religion, but that would be less taxes for them, and they didn't want that. A slave is better when he is alive and cooperative.

I think I know what you mean by the 95% of mistakes made by us.You really mean by the Ottoman's because they were the rulers for all that time,am I right?

I mean the Ottomans + the 30 years of occupation. Personally I never denied our responsibility for the events of 63-68. In the same way the TCs should decide: Will the take responsibility for the oppression by the Ottomans, or they will stop claiming centuries of history in Cyprus? It should be one of the two.

And Piratis you have to admit that wanting ENOSIS was a monumental mistake,which sparked off everything else that followed.

Wanting enosis when was a mistake? Before 1960 or after 1960? If you are talking about after 1960 then I agree. However if you are talking before 1960 then I don't see why it was a mistake to want enosis. (what was a mistake was probably the armed straggle) At that time there was no state in Cyprus and liberation for GCs was equal to union with Greece. We were never offered any kind of alternative form of liberation until 1960, and even that was crippled.

[Piratis]

How old are you? You sound like a schoolyard boy?

Old enough not to continuously make nonsense one liners that have no purpose other than to offend others.

[bg_turk]

Birkibrisli,

I had decided not to post here anymoere (to much work I cannot waste my times with greek nationalists, better talk to the wall ), but just wanted to make a few observations for your sake.

I hope your cousin is raped, your uncle missing, and your fortune gone in the hands, and by the hands, of an invading army!

So what? Union with Greece was our 100% democratic right.

We had every right to seek our desired destiny while under British rule....you expect us to be ruled in our own home by the Turks for hundreds of years and then by the British...while our brothers accross the Aegean were gaining independance!?

Are you really hoping of building one unified Cypriot nation with these people? Do you really believe that these people are going to become Cypriot and forget their hellenic aspirations overnight? Think carefully about it, because it will be your children and all the children of the TC community who will pay a very high price for your mistakes.
There is no willingness to live together in these people, they do not care about you or any other TCs, they are after reclaiming what was "righfully" theirs, and if it was not for the Turkish intervention, they would have rightfully reclaimed the whole of Cyprus as a Hellenic island.
I know you have suffered a lot during the Cyprus problem, and I know that you are trying to avoid this kind of suffering in the future, and you are willing to compromise in the name of peace and coexistance, and I applaud your determiniation and sacrifice. Unfortunately, it is always people like you who have suffered most that are willing to make the biggest compromises, but please please do not be fooled and dont be so naive to wholeheartedly trust greek nationalists.

To just to give you a historical perspective ... When greeks took control of Solun during the first balkan war in 1911, its slavic citizens trusted greeks and fought against the turks with the greeks to liberate the city, but after the war was over you can imagine their horrible surprise when they realized that greeks were even worse than the turks. They ethnically cleansed the whole of northern greece of all slavs, killed, raped and burned villages. Greeks comitted the first massacre in the modern history of the Balkans, and they managed to do in northern greece in a few years, what ottomans did not manage to do in centuries, wipe it out of its slavic inhabitants.

They did not hesitate to do this with christian slavs, what makes you think they would not have done it with a muslim mongolian turk like you?

When you forget it history repeats itself, Birkibrisli. You may forgive, but never forget, and never allow history to repeat itself again.

[Piratis]

bg_turk, I have many Bulgarian and Slav friends, and the ones who know any slavs would not buy your propaganda that "Greeks were worst than Turks" etc. This is what you say because you are not a Slav and you hate Greeks and for no other reason.

Are you really hoping of building one unified Cypriot nation with these people? Do you really believe that these people are going to become Cypriot and forget their hellenic aspirations overnight?

We were both talking about history not what we want today, but apparently you missed this "detail". Why you missed it? Because your aim is to preserve hate and conflict, which is the contrary to what we do. While enosis is not something we demand anymore for long time already, you keep supporting the illegal partition of our country. You are the extremists and indeed if the majority of TCs are like you there is no way to get to an agreed solution.

When you forget it history repeats itself, Birkibrisli. You can forgive Birkibrisli, but never forget, and never allow history to repeat itself again.

The only way to stop history repeating itself and to stop the circle of blood is if the illegalities stop and we create something new based on democracy and human rights. If you do not accept this to happen and you insist on violating our human rights then the circle of blood will continue in the next shift of balance of power and it will not mean a thing of how much you forget or remember.

[bg_turk]

bg_turk, I have many Bulgarian and Slav friends, and the ones who know any slavs would not buy your propaganda that "Greeks were worst than Turks" etc. This is what you say because you are not a Slav and you hate Greeks and for no other reason.

The only slav friends that you have are probably immigrants in RoC - no doubt they would not say anything against greeks.
I have learned in Bulgarian history classes together with my bulgarian classmates, and I know first hand the bitterness and resentment some bulgarians feel against the greek state and its crimes against humanity. I have talked to many macedonians, who are very resentful against Greece.

[Piratis]

The only slav friends that you have are probably immigrants in RoC

You are wrong. Most of the ones I know are in the US. I was told by some of them that in the last several years they started changing the educational system in Bulgaria in order to avoid including the things that would annoy the Turks. This is natural and expected when there is a significant Turkish minority there. However I am afraid you are confusing this (correct) policy of Bulgaria with the facts.
Or are you going to tell me that Bulgarians could write the true history regarding the Turks in their books and it would be ok with the Turkish minority there? (which as you said is now participating in the government)

I have talked to many macedonians, who are very resentful against Greece.

I also talked to many Macedonians and they are very proud to be Greek, just like their ancestors who had spread the Greek civilization.

[bg_turk]

You are wrong. Most of the ones I know are in the US. I was told by some of them that in the last several years they started changing the educational system in Bulgaria in order to avoid including the things that would annoy the Turks. This is natural and expected when there is a significant Turkish minority there. However I am afraid you are confusing this (correct) policy of Bulgaria with the facts.
Or are you going to tell me that Bulgarians could write the true history regarding the Turks in their books and it would be ok with the Turkish minority there? (which as you said is now participating in the government)

The communist government simply misappropriated aspects of the Ottoman past in order to persecute minorities or other political actors. To say that the old history is facts and the new one is not, having in mind that the old one was developed under the communist totalitarian regime is a gross exaggeration.

The communists simply needed this kind of history to persecute us, in the same way you need it to demonize the turks as barbarians. The argument used to change our names during the "revival" process were largely based on the old version of history and statements that we were originally bulgarian forcefully turkified by the invading turks, and so they were going to "help" us restore our original indentity.

The textbooks were changed under EU pressure. Only some nationalists are trying to portray the whole issue as if the turks and Turkey forced bulgaria to "change" its history. The decision was taken I think by the prime minister Ivan Kostov, to bring the educational system of Bulgaria more inline with that of the EU.

If you want to learn more about the greek position on Bulgarian history
http://www.macedonian-heritage.gr/downl ... 990217.pdf
No doubt Greece is very keen to have parts of history it doesnt like modified as well.

[zan]

Piratis

It was Makarios, Grivas,Samson and the murdering EOKA that violated human rights. It was the Greeks that treated the TCs as second class citizens and thought it thier god given right to join Greece that is a violation of human rights. It is your insistance that we as TCs do not have claim to anything, that is a violation of human rights.
You keep spouting off about your version of history. It matters not one little bit. We are now writing every where about what really happened and a balance will be reached. There are civilised Greeks that are doing exactly the same. Your biased oppinion will have to be modified. People like you will ensure the recognition of the TRNC and I personally would like to thank you very much.

bg-Turk

Keep writing mate.