Cyprus-Forum.com

[Pyrpolizer]

The annan plan version 3 was a good point for negotiations i believe,after that the plan went waywire with vast turkish demands included in versions 4 and 5

That's a myth my friend. NONE of the Anan Plans were good even as starting points for negotiations.
Our super idiotic political leadership thought that having the UN resolutions and EU aquis on our side could of be able to turn those plans in some balanced solution.They have never thought of the possibility of ending up halfway (which would still make the Anan Plan unacceptable to the GCs), and not even imagined of bridging all differences in favor of the Turkish side like it actually happened in the end.

[Pyrpolizer]

Not really because his opinions for me carry no weight, if you want to follow him like the rest of the sheep on this forum you can but the above comment is no more than avoiding the real issues. So are we in agreement that more checks and balances and guarantees are vital in any new agreement because we trust one another even less than we did 9 years ago? or like Kikapoooo you want to get rid of the major checks and balances in the AP being the security guarantees?

You don't even know what checks and balances are.
In reality it is regulations that you want, that will secure you a disguised partition state of affairs.
That's what you got with the Anan Plan, and you don't seem willing to let go.

[repulsewarrior]

...the gates are open, vp. they have been for a little while, and millions have crossed.

Your point being?

trust dude. dialog, likely more will open. and over the years a new TC, and GC, as you call Cypriots, osmosis, unless of course you expect the militarised border to remain, as though "Greek" and "Turk" ever were a way to describe these people, unchanging forever, hate filled, and always at war with each other.

[Kikapu]

You are the one contradicting yourself, you asked me if the AP met my demand for checks and balances, then you go onto say why are you discussing it is dead and buried...why the hell did you raise the issue if you didnt want me to discuss it. You are the one with a mental block, I have stated that the AP was a push in the right direction, although not perfect it was an opportunity to break the dealock, have you had the same opportunity since? believe me you will never have one again. At least 9 years ago we took that bold step forward, what did you do?

Now we understand from our debate that the checks, balances and guarantees are so important and were very minimal in the AP which 9 years ago was sufficent for me but after 9 years of getting to know the GC mentality stronger guarantees and plenty more checks and balances are required in any new attempt at finding a solution.

Even mentioning the name "Kikapu" is enough for you to go nuts...

Not really because his opinions for me carry no weight, if you want to follow him like the rest of the sheep on this forum you can but the above comment is no more than avoiding the real issues. So are we in agreement that more checks and balances and guarantees are vital in any new agreement because we trust one another even less than we did 9 years ago? or like Kikapoooo you want to get rid of the major checks and balances in the AP being the security guarantees?

As Pyro stated, there were no so called "Checks & Balances" in the AP. Checks & Balances are mainly found in matured Democracies and not in any Apartheid systems as the AP was. That's why VP likes the AP.

The only thing that was guaranteed in the AP, was the destruction of the RoC, the north becoming a sovereign state and Turkey having supreme control of the whole island, and Cyprus most likely NOT entering the EU at all.

[Viewpoint]

...the gates are open, vp. they have been for a little while, and millions have crossed.

Your point being?

trust dude. dialog, likely more will open. and over the years a new TC, and GC, as you call Cypriots, osmosis, unless of course you expect the militarised border to remain, as though "Greek" and "Turk" ever were a way to describe these people, unchanging forever, hate filled, and always at war with each other.

So 9 years of crossing the BORDER has not brought us any closer together in fact we have understood that we cannot unite we are further form a solution than ever, thinking otherwise is just dreaming and fooling ones self.

[Viewpoint]

Not really because his opinions for me carry no weight, if you want to follow him like the rest of the sheep on this forum you can but the above comment is no more than avoiding the real issues. So are we in agreement that more checks and balances and guarantees are vital in any new agreement because we trust one another even less than we did 9 years ago? or like Kikapoooo you want to get rid of the major checks and balances in the AP being the security guarantees?

You don't even know what checks and balances are.
In reality it is regulations that you want, that will secure you a disguised partition state of affairs.
That's what you got with the Anan Plan, and you don't seem willing to let go.

Call them what you want checks and balances or regulations, do you agree that we need them, a yes or no will do. You seem afraid of committing, you yourself pointed out that lack "regulations" then surely you support a set of regulations that will ensure both sides stick to any solution we agree.

[MR-from-NG]

Hello MrfromNg, how are you, welcome back...

There was a lot of reaction locally for that article which admittedly contains Turkish propaganda like:
"Such a deal, brokered by the UN, appeared within reach in 2004 when Turkish Cypriots approved it in a referendum. But Greek Cypriots, certain of being admitted into the EU no matter how they voted, rejected the plan."

Anyway, with this guy Anastasiades there is a high possibility imo that the CP will be solved in a DOUBLE ENOSIS fashion.Since your retirement will start in about 5 years you will have adequate time to judge if this is what you wanted for your home country, and whether it worths spending the rest of your life in Cyprus.
I don't have positive hopes, sorry.

Hi pyrpolizer,
I'm fine thanks, I hope you're keeping well too. I have read a few articles about the elections and in particular about Anastasiades. I also believe this candidate, if elected may have the desire to end this mess we've been living for over 50 years.

All I can say is this. I love Cyprus and would love to retire there and obviously it would be in the north, but as thing are at the moment I would have to be out of my mind to even consider it. I know of 3 families that settled there last year, all 3 are back in the UK now suffering huge financial losses. The place is in a serious mess and anyone saying the place is a bed of roses is simply living in denial.

[bill cobbett]

Well, if we come up with an equitable settlement, that's to say equitable in terms of the Territory split, one that respects everyone's human rights (as per the ECHR)

...based on a Governance of two semi-autonomous zones under a strong Federal government and with NO foreign guarantees, all in all a CY Settlement for CYs and no one else, ...

...We could Resolve CyProb within 5 Hours.

[boomerang]

Well, if we come up with an equitable settlement, that's to say equitable in terms of the Territory split, one that respects everyone's human rights (as per the ECHR)

...based on a Governance of two semi-autonomous zones under a strong Federal government and with NO foreign guarantees, all in all a CY Settlement for CYs and no one else, ...

...We could Resolve CyProb within 5 Hours.

i am not so sure you can say semi autonomous zones under a federal government...a state is more of an appropriate term...simply means politicians elected serve the people within the state's boundary lines...just like what victoria is to australia...we are not a semi autonomous zone...we are a state...and why stop at 2 states, why not more?...why should someone nicosia decide what paphos gets?...

having more than 2 states will probably facilitate the territory split...splitting the occupied in 2 pcs where along with another 4 states will have to compete with each other for funds, investments, etc...at the federal level...

and get away from north and south or turkish and greek state names...it's a horrible way to be classed....

[Pyrpolizer]

So let's get rid of this term "checks and balances" which in reality is something mostly related to the 3 main branches of a democratic system be it legislative-executive-judicial.

Regulations is not a good term either (by bad) the correct term should be laws. Executive departments and administrative bodies write regulations to implement the authority of laws.For example getting a driving license is a regulation, been forced to label the cigarettes you are selling with warnings about cancer is a regulation also, which I personally don't even know from which law they derive.
And surprise-surprise both Laws and Regulations and law enforceable, and they can drag you to courts if you disobey.
The weird thing about it all is that while laws pass through the parliaments for voting, regulations DON'T. In fact there could be upto 1000 regulations that some ministry has decided by itself for implementing one single law.

So dear VP all you can have in a solution is a constitution and a set of basic laws regarding the powers and functions of the Federal bodies and their legislative-executive-judicial branches. The checks and balances of these branches will be within the basic laws of the agreement and the constitution.
Attached to the solution will most probably be the majority of laws and regulations of the RoC, plus all laws and regulations of your administration that are not conflicting to those of the RoC or the EU aquis, or to the content of the agreement.

Is this what you want or is it something else?
Please make sure you use the right terms so that we can talk the same language be it checks and Balances, Laws or Regulations.

Btw the EU issues laws by voting that she calls "Regulations" which are also enforceable in all member states. I have absolutely no idea why they call them regulations instead of laws....