Cyprus-Forum.com

[Vassos1]

Cyprezokyli, Piratis and Birkibrisli,

Thank you for your initial compliment. I actually believe that we are very focused, hard working and realistic with our assumption of the Cyprus issue.

The Give and Takes are obvious.

Let’s face a very important fact here; there is no way we will sign away a power-sharing federal united republic of Cyprus, not after what has happened. Perhaps you are all not in touch with the financial or political world, but the present Greek Cypriot run Republic of Cyprus has been built, from 1974 to now, with shear determination and hard work by the Greek Cypriots only. The Turkish Cypriots have always rejected their 18 seats in Parliament, and still do today. If they wanted a fair deal based on the size of their population, all they needed to do was to relinquish their state, join our parliament and claim their 18 seats. It’s amazing how it is now that they wish to united, after so many years of hard work building our country after it was demolished in 1974. We had nothing when we first moved to the south from our “Varosha” city.

Since 1974, we have established our republic’s position in the world’s stock exchanges, we have developed very good ties with all nations of the world, and we have signed huge financial and political deals in securing our people’s financial future. If you seriously think that our political leaders, committees, congress, business organisations, military and economists will sign away a power-sharing deal with the Laid-back Turkish Cypriots in the north, you truly are blind-folded to the realities of political and economic issues of this world. They are used to receiving hand-outs from Turkey, they have never bothered to fight to work their economy and now they continue to seek unification based of equality. Well, I say they’ll need to, at the very least, put in 30 years of manpower if they think that we are willing to share and build their side to the same standard of ours.

Cypezokyli: Did we really accept a Power-Sharing agreement in 1960, or was Makarios politically “Forced” in signing this deal. You must remember I was there at the time and can distinctly remember the extremely bad feeling in Cyprus amongst Greek and Turkish Cypriots at the time. That is why it broke down in 1963; because our government leaders were partitioned in their opinion. Although we had many who agreed with the agreement, like me at the time, we all soon faced reality when we realised the strong animosity amongst some of the ethnic groups. Remember, it only takes a few to cause trouble, and that is what will no doubt happen again, but on a different scale.

The scale would be catastrophic for all. Although we all experienced hardship in the 1960s and 1970s, it would be us who would loose if hostility should grow. The Turkish Cypriots are not a few small villages anymore. There are hundreds of thousands around the world that will dive to the aide of their families if hostilities were to start. The Turkish Cypriots are richer than we expect, thus enabling them to gain more purchase power. Eventually, due to the distance from Greece to Cyprus, in a united federation, 50/50 government and growing population and wealth of the Turkish Cypriots, I would give our people 50 years (at the most) before the island‘s demographic position is shifted the other way. Just imagine how many Turkish Cypriots abroad will be offered opportunities to return to Cyprus. Please don’t forget, an opportunity for the Republic of Cyprus of today to be dissolved would be a Turkish dream come true. I would even go to say that Turkish is now re-planning a “pure” united federation deal with the UN and US for this purpose.

Unlike most of you in this forum, I am able to also speak, read and write in the Turkish language. I know how they really think and I am fully aware of how rich, financially and influentially, they are becoming.

Birkibrisli:
You sound like one of those Turkish Cypriot liberals your friends on the ATCANEWS.ORG website hate. Why? Because you believe in this “Never Ending Fantasy” world that all peoples of Cyprus are “Cypriots” and that we are all one nation. Let me please remind you that there is no “Cypriot”, you are either “Greek Cypriot” or “Turkish Cypriot”, and that is a reality my friend. It only takes one person in a federal union to ignite a fire and we’ll all go crumbling down.

I world think it best for all of us to be represented as two Republic states as Greek Cypriots and Turkish Cypriots, only. By securing this, we would be able to work together as two distinctive republic states, help each other’s economies, Tourism and the area of Sports, but also know our sensitivities. Our sensitivities of being kept at arms-length.

Please, just look at the other examples around Europe: Czech and Slovak Republics, Serbia/Montenegro, the old Yugoslavia, the Republic of and Northern Republic of Ireland. These were all established to promote peace as neighbours, and not pushed to live together under one roof.

There is no common Cypriot Heritage My Birkibrisli. If there is, please tell what it is. Is it the fact that we are happy that you landed in Cyprus in 1571, can we speak the same language, do we want to be able to speak Turkish? Why should we have to force that upon our children? Do we follow the same religious belief? Do we have the same culture?

Please Birkibrisli, tell me exactly what “Cypriot” heritage you are referring too. We are very different, and unlike you, I have seen many Greek and Turkish people of Cyprus killed because of people who live in a fantasy world that we can all live under one government. That is not how the world turns my friend. If that was the case, why is that the British and the Irish are still arguing over Northern Ireland? Why is their a North and South Korea? Why did Yugoslavia split up and why did the former USSR divide into many states (including Turkic ones).

[zan]

Vassos1

At last, a man who is talking sense. You have worked hard and have done well. The Turkish Cypriots probably would have done better if sanctions weren’t imposed but we can only speculate on that one. I actually would like to thank you for coming out and saying what you are saying. I would have much more respect if all GCs were to realise what they have and stop harping on about destroying the island once again in a great movement of people. You are thinking along the same lines as I am in that the competition between the two republics will help them to achieve higher results. Long live the RoC and the TRNC.

[Piratis]

unlike most of you in this forum, I am able to also speak, read and write in the Turkish language.

Can you do the same in Greek?

What you propose is exactly what the Turkish hardliners want. Recognition of their pseudo state as fast as possible without even giving anything in return.

I ask you again, and please don't try to avoid answering this time: Even if we assume that a good solution can never be found, why would a recognized "TRNC" be better for us than the status quo?

Long live the RoC and the TRNC.

The "TRNC" does not exist. How can something that does not exist live long? What exists is the illegal Turkish occupation, and that can have as long life as the balance of power will allow you. But not longer.

[BirKibrisli]

Cyprezokyli, Piratis and Birkibrisli,


Birkibrisli:
You sound like one of those Turkish Cypriot liberals your friends on the ATCANEWS.ORG website hate. Why? Because you believe in this “Never Ending Fantasy” world that all peoples of Cyprus are “Cypriots” and that we are all one nation. Let me please remind you that there is no “Cypriot”, you are either “Greek Cypriot” or “Turkish Cypriot”, and that is a reality my friend. It only takes one person in a federal union to ignite a fire and we’ll all go crumbling down.

I world think it best for all of us to be represented as two Republic states as Greek Cypriots and Turkish Cypriots, only. By securing this, we would be able to work together as two distinctive republic states, help each other’s economies, Tourism and the area of Sports, but also know our sensitivities. Our sensitivities of being kept at arms-length.

Please, just look at the other examples around Europe: Czech and Slovak Republics, Serbia/Montenegro, the old Yugoslavia, the Republic of and Northern Republic of Ireland. These were all established to promote peace as neighbours, and not pushed to live together under one roof.

There is no common Cypriot Heritage My Birkibrisli. If there is, please tell what it is. Is it the fact that we are happy that you landed in Cyprus in 1571, can we speak the same language, do we want to be able to speak Turkish? Why should we have to force that upon our children? Do we follow the same religious belief? Do we have the same culture?

Please Birkibrisli, tell me exactly what “Cypriot” heritage you are referring too. We are very different, and unlike you, I have seen many Greek and Turkish people of Cyprus killed because of people who live in a fantasy world that we can all live under one government. That is not how the world turns my friend. If that was the case, why is that the British and the Irish are still arguing over Northern Ireland? Why is their a North and South Korea? Why did Yugoslavia split up and why did the former USSR divide into many states (including Turkic ones).

Vassos,
I guess our difference is that I look at our similarities and want to heal the differences,and you look at our differences and want to cement them.
You have obviously not read the scientific research report which found (please note,not claim but proved) that GCs and TCs share one unique gene pool.And that gene pool is different from the two mainlands' gene pools.That means Vassos that you and I are blood brothers,our DNA is very similar our genes are identical.How did this come about?By living together for hundreds of years and by intermarrying.The fact that society looked down upon those mixed marriages,and hence the women in those marriages had to assimilate into the mens' community ,change their names,and stop talking about their ethnic origin,did not change the reality..We became on nation,but we didn't know it,and those who knew it didn't admit to it for their own selfish reasons.
That I can tell a Cypriot from a mile in any city of the world is not by accident or divine intervention.We look like each other,phsically,and our mentality,our traditions and customs are ,mostly the same.So is our temperament and so is our sense of humour.Beleieve me,Vassos,my wife was a Turk from Turkey,and I know what I am talking about when I say TCs are nothing like the Turks from the mainland.I am not making a value judgement here,just simly stating my observation regarding our difference.So if we are not like the Turks from Turkey who are we like,Vassos?Not like Martians,not like Greeks,we are like GCs.We are the same people.The differences in language and religion are artificial,manmade,and it can be overcome.I would love my childeren and grandchildren to speak all 3 languages if they are to live in Cyprus. I lament the fact that I let my Greek (which I learned in Cyprus from my friends in the street as a child)disappear through neglect here in Australia.
I believe knowledge,and specially knowledge of languages makes us more civilised,more human and more wise.Why do you think GC kids should not learn Turkish,get to know their compatriots in their own language and vice versa.?You make it sound like torture,learning another language.But it doesn't have to be like that,presented in a positive light,it can be lots of fun. Your mentality,that GCs are Greek and TCs are Turks,is what brought us to where we are today,I am afraid.Now you want to cement this mentality,perpetuate it for eternity in a handful of land which is our homeland,our country,our Cyprus.I have been in Australia for more than 30 years now,pining for my country,and hoping things will change so that I can come back and live like a human being where I belong most.Not to use my economic power or other skills to dominate my fellow Cypriots,but to enjoy peace and hapiness I know I will never find in this foreign land.I am angry<Vasos> because however you try to dress it up,your mentality is,forgive me for saying this,racist and prejudiced.Your mentality and your arguments are part of the problem,they can't be part of the solution as well.

[bg_turk]

Vassos,
I guess our difference is that I look at our similarities and want to heal the differences,and you look at our differences and want to cement them.
You have obviously not read the scientific research report which found (please note,not claim but proved) that GCs and TCs share one unique gene pool.And that gene pool is different from the two mainlands' gene pools.That means Vassos that you and I are blood brothers,our DNA is very similar our genes are identical.How did this come about?By living together for hundreds of years and by intermarrying.The fact that society looked down upon those mixed marriages,and hence the women in those marriages had to assimilate into the mens' community ,change their names,and stop talking about their ethnic origin,did not change the reality..We became on nation,but we didn't know it,and those who knew it didn't admit to it for their own selfish reasons.

Serbians, Bosnians and Croats speak the same language amd they are effectively the same people with the same genes. Did this prevent the bloodshed in Yugoslavia, the Srebrenice massacres, the bombing of Belgrade and the destruction of Dubrovnik?
On the other hand people as different as white americans, chinese and black americans live peacefully in the USA.
You see, having the same genes means nothing Birkibrisli. Yugoslavians, people with the same genes, never managed to build a yugoslavian nation, what makes you think Cyprus will?
Genese are nothing, human behavior and perception everything.

[zan]

unlike most of you in this forum, I am able to also speak, read and write in the Turkish language.

Can you do the same in Greek?

What you propose is exactly what the Turkish hardliners want. Recognition of their pseudo state as fast as possible without even giving anything in return.

I ask you again, and please don't try to avoid answering this time: Even if we assume that a good solution can never be found, why would a recognized "TRNC" be better for us than the status quo?

Long live the RoC and the TRNC.

The "TRNC" does not exist. How can something that does not exist live long? What exists is the illegal Turkish occupation, and that can have as long life as the balance of power will allow you. But not longer.

You keep turning your back on reality like that dog of yours and it will come and bite you right on the arse.

[BirKibrisli]

Vassos,
I guess our difference is that I look at our similarities and want to heal the differences,and you look at our differences and want to cement them.
You have obviously not read the scientific research report which found (please note,not claim but proved) that GCs and TCs share one unique gene pool.And that gene pool is different from the two mainlands' gene pools.That means Vassos that you and I are blood brothers,our DNA is very similar our genes are identical.How did this come about?By living together for hundreds of years and by intermarrying.The fact that society looked down upon those mixed marriages,and hence the women in those marriages had to assimilate into the mens' community ,change their names,and stop talking about their ethnic origin,did not change the reality..We became on nation,but we didn't know it,and those who knew it didn't admit to it for their own selfish reasons.

Serbians, Bosnians and Croats speak the same language amd they are effectively the same people with the same genes. Did this prevent the bloodshed in Yugoslavia, the Srebrenice massacres, the bombing of Belgrade and the destruction of Dubrovnik?
On the other hand people as different as white americans, chinese and black americans live peacefully in the USA.
You see, having the same genes means nothing Birkibrisli. Yugoslavians, people with the same genes, never managed to build a yugoslavian nation, what makes you think Cyprus will?
Genese are nothing, human behavior and perception everything.

Merhaba,bg_turk!

I cannot argue with your logic above.I know that you know what you are talking about.I guess,I am forever hoping that human beings will one day see their mistakes of the past and build a better more humane society in the future.I won't say genes are nothing,and human behaviour and perception can be altered by the right means.The question is are we prepared to seek those right means and apply them?Or is it easier to perpetuate the past hatreds,and past behaviours?
As you can see bg_turk,I don't want to give up on my homeland,and the hope that we will one day rise above our baser insticts,and start behaving like the intelligent and evolved animals that we are...

[bg_turk]

Merhaba,bg_turk!

I cannot argue with your logic above.I know that you know what you are talking about.I guess,I am forever hoping that human beings will one day see their mistakes of the past and build a better more humane society in the future.I won't say genes are nothing,and human behaviour and perception can be altered by the right means.The question is are we prepared to seek those right means and apply them?Or is it easier to perpetuate the past hatreds,and past behaviours?
As you can see bg_turk,I don't want to give up on my homeland,and the hope that we will one day rise above our baser insticts,and start behaving like the intelligent and evolved animals that we are...

Kali Nixta Birkibrisli,

I did not want to burst your bubble, and I am sure it is possible for TC and GC to live together one day in the future. But do not rush into unification please, take small steps at a time, make sure that the ground below your feet is steady and that you will not fall.
Yugoslavians made the very same mistake you are now asking TC to do, they wanted to make one great slavic nation in the west of the Balkans, where all would be equal before the law regardless of ethnic origin, people would proud to be yugoslavian, they would love each other and get along well, but we all saw what happened in the end ...
A real unification happens only slowly, gradually and willingly.
A unification imposed from above by the politicians will not work at all but hopefully people like you will lead to the real unification which will start from below, from the people of Cyprus.

[Main_Source]

lol...no what happend in Kosovo is the ethnic muslims were causing trouble in order to breakaway and have their own state...and the Serbs retaliated with way too much force.

[BirKibrisli]

lol...no what happend in Kosovo is the ethnic muslims were causing trouble in order to breakaway and have their own state...and the Serbs retaliated with way too much force.

What about what happened between the Serbs and Croatians,Souce?
I guess it was the Bosnian muslims who made them kill each other as well?