Cyprus-Forum.com

[cypezokyli]

i am not arguing against the geographical aims of turkey but saying

it would have just loaded all of the Turkish Cypriot in Cyprus at the time in a number of shops and taken them to safe heaven Turkey

is a little bit....

turkey also saved (according to them) the tcs with exactly what it did in 1974. i really dont get your point.

The Turks are split in three, one that wants recognition for their enclave and do not care about the size of the territory as long as it remains Turkish (the liberals who truly want to live as one island), one that wants FULL unification (the growing party), and one that wants unification for the benefit of exploiting Kemalism and one day shifting the Turkish influence to a majority

how did u get to these conclusion of kemalism?

when it comes to your partitioning opinion, i guess we disagree.

but to be honest i sympathise more with those who want partition bc they dont want to share power or to "pay for them", rather than those who are after saving helenism.

i am really sorry that i cannot see the light.

[Vassos1]

Cypezokyli,

Okay, perhaps I was getting a little too carried away with it all, but I do strongly feel that we have, and are underestimating the Turkish Cypriot population and their mainland backer. Since 1974, we have, with tremendous sacrifice and hard work, transformed our Republic into a prosperous country in all sectors. Let’s look at the principal of a resolution. The Turks will in no way accept an agreement that will not allow a 50/50 power-sharing stake in any new Cyprus united republic formula. Also, the Turks, in the meantime, until we come to our senses and especially with these two new Turkish governments of Erdoghan and Tallat, are cementing the philosophy of the Annan Plan as a basis to any new agreement. So, what can we do to stop these tactics? I believe that we have three very simple choices.

1)Reject every power-sharing agreement in the future until the world recognizes the Turkish Cypriots as the TRNC with their full 37% of territory, inclusing the Varosha and the buffer zone areas.

2)Sign a Power-sharing, Annan-style agreement and watch how unstable our new republic will become, watch how populus the Turks will suddenly become and watch how Turkey will finance the Turkish Cypriots with the means to gain immense financial purchasing power.

3)Sit at a table right now and agree a two-republic resolution, as how the former Czechoslovakians did in the past in order to secure peace, the interest of our children and stability.

We have worked too hard to throw it all away now for some failed unification policy. The Turkish Cypriots are not ready to work the way we do, they don’t have the correct experience, they can’t (nor can we) speak our language. Remember, I have the impression that the Turkish Cypriots are very laid-back, as they have been fully financed by their Turkish kin. I honestly think that if we sign a power-sharing deal, or aim for unification, it will be us who will suffer in the end. I just hope that we don’t make the same mistakes of the past.

Remember, at present, we are the onbe s in the driving seat but I am not sure how long that will remain.

[cypezokyli]

vassos1... i assume from your writings that u dont see any difference bwteeen tcs and turks, but thats not the point.

i agree with your 3 case scenario (especially with number 1).
it is just i believe that a stable goverment could be formed even under power sharing conditions.
scenario number three would only be accepted as piratis said with reward of land.

i would say u carry a number of stereotypes when it comes to tcs. i would really suggest you to give them a chance and meet with some tcs. who knows? perhaps u will be positively surprised...

[ELLAS H TEFRA!]

"I would like to suggest to you".

U cannot be "positively surprised".

You dont "carry stereotypes".

[Piratis]

1)Reject every power-sharing agreement in the future until the world recognizes the Turkish Cypriots as the TRNC with their full 37% of territory, including the Varosha and the buffer zone areas.

The world didn't even recognize Taiwan. Official recognition of "TRNC" is absolutely impossible. How comes and you share the same dream as the TC partitionists? Coincidence?

3)Sit at a table right now and agree a two-republic resolution, as how the former Czechoslovakians did in the past in order to secure peace, the interest of our children and stability.

And why is this better than the status quo?

[Vassos1]

Cypezokyli,

My apologies if I may come across a little strong minded, however, this is only due to the opposite of what you’ve suggested I should do. I have been living, and in some cases, working with Turkish Cypriot people for the majority of my life. I live in London and I have lived through both of the most turbulent years in Cyprus; 1973/4 and 1960/3/4. I used to be an editor of a very well known British Newspaper and am still in regular contact with them on a colleague/associate capacity. As part of my previous position as editor, I also had the pleasure of personally visiting many situations around the world. I have interviews both Clerides and Denktash in the past, and I have sat through many UN conferences. I’ve been retired now for 10 years.

Therefore, my views are no just an opinion of someone who “thinks” he knows what he’s talking about, but rather from someone who has experienced the good and the bad. Nevertheless, I do agree with your analysis and views.

The TCs are very confused, in my opinion, and they are much split, thus it is hard to fully understand what their true intensions are as a community. By referring to the Annan Plan one would assumed that they are very liberal and are not too concerned about the “give” and “takes” in a settlement plan. However, on the other side, there are a number of very influential TCs who strongly believe in Partition, do not want anything to do with any Greek Cypriot and are willing to working in parallel with there Turkish motherland country.

Getting back to the question of the Annan Plan, I think that another plan involving a power-sharing United Republic will again be dismissed by our people for obvious reasons. In this regard, instead of waiting for another leader who may posses a more lenient than Papadopoulos, I would strongly recommend that our government of today put forward its own set of ideas. Not for unification, but for an agreed divorce with the view of establishing bi-republic links respecting each community’s sensitivities.

Let us not fool ourselves, if we don’t forcefully deal with this situation now, the UN will make certain that, either we are forced to accept the “TRNC” in its present form or we are tricked into signing a pro-Turkish Cypriot version of a settlement. Our leaders are playing with fire this time round, and it’s not the old Denktash that we can point a finger at. As time goes by, it is now the Turkish Cypriots who are perceived to be the ones all for an agreement, while we are regarded as the ones who are failing to see the realities of tomorrow.

For the sake of our children, theirs freedom and stability, I wish that President Tassos Papadopoulos makes a Heroic move soon.

The ANNAN PLAN may be scrapped for now, but I am convinced that it is only a matter of time before we are confronted with a no win situation. We will be forced to accept a new version of this plan, which I have no doubt, and we will LOOSE THE REPRESENTATION AS THE REPUBLIC OF CYPRUS.

[BirKibrisli]

Vassos1,
Why is it so important to you to preserve your Hellenic heritage?
Why can't we have a unitary state where people's ethnic origins or religious beliefs are their private concerns?Hellenic heritage is safely preserved in Greece,like the Turkish heritage which is safe in Turkey.
Why can't we move beyond those considerations and forge a common Cypriot heritage.With the right policies,it would only take two generations (30 years) to have every Cypriot learn both languages spoken on the island.I find your insistence on preserving your Hellenic heritage a bit disturbing.It reeks of Nazi Germany's wish to preserve or create an ARyan nation,does it not?

[cypezokyli]

vassos1
its nice to have someone in the forum with a long experience.

The TCs are very confused, in my opinion

would u say we are not?

By referring to the Annan Plan one would assumed that they are very liberal and are not too concerned about the “give” and “takes” in a settlement plan

everybody is concerned about the gives and takes

Getting back to the question of the Annan Plan, I think that another plan involving a power-sharing United Republic will again be dismissed by our people for obvious reasons

could be.
many will also depend on the position of our leaders.
besides we accepted power sharing in 1960.

For the sake of our children, theirs freedom and stability,

why do you think that our freedom and stability are in danger in a co-sharing kind of republic?

but I am convinced that it is only a matter of time before we are confronted with a no win situation.

would you say that this depends also a little bit on the abilities of our politicians?

[Piratis]

Let us not fool ourselves, if we don’t forcefully deal with this situation now, the UN will make certain that, either we are forced to accept the “TRNC” in its present form or we are tricked into signing a pro-Turkish Cypriot version of a settlement.

Vassos, what you say makes no sense. It sounds like "There is somebody that is going to kill you, so just suicide as fast as possible to avoid being killed by him"

Shouldn't we at least fight for our life? And even if we are eventually going loose the fight and "die", why should we rush???

What exactly are we going to gain if we do what you say? Guarantee that we will never get any of our land and human rights back???

[Vassos1]

Cyprezokyli, Piratis and Birkibrisli,

Thank you for your initial compliment. I actually believe that we are very focused, hard working and realistic with our assumption of the Cyprus issue.

The Give and Takes are obvious.

Let’s face a very important fact here; there is no way we will sign away a power-sharing federal united republic of Cyprus, not after what has happened. Perhaps you are all not in touch with the financial or political world, but the present Greek Cypriot run Republic of Cyprus has been built, from 1974 to now, with shear determination and hard work by the Greek Cypriots only. The Turkish Cypriots have always rejected their 18 seats in Parliament, and still do today. If they wanted a fair deal based on the size of their population, all they needed to do was to relinquish their state, join our parliament and claim their 18 seats. It’s amazing how it is now that they wish to united, after so many years of hard work building our country after it was demolished in 1974. We had nothing when we first moved to the south from our “Varosha” city.

Since 1974, we have established our republic’s position in the world’s stock exchanges, we have developed very good ties with all nations of the world, and we have signed huge financial and political deals in securing our people’s financial future. If you seriously think that our political leaders, committees, congress, business organisations, military and economists will sign away a power-sharing deal with the Laid-back Turkish Cypriots in the north, you truly are blind-folded to the realities of political and economic issues of this world. They are used to receiving hand-outs from Turkey, they have never bothered to fight to work their economy and now they continue to seek unification based of equality. Well, I say they’ll need to, at the very least, put in 30 years of manpower if they think that we are willing to share and build their side to the same standard of ours.

Cypezokyli: Did we really accept a Power-Sharing agreement in 1960, or was Makarios politically “Forced” in signing this deal. You must remember I was there at the time and can distinctly remember the extremely bad feeling in Cyprus amongst Greek and Turkish Cypriots at the time. That is why it broke down in 1963; because our government leaders were partitioned in their opinion. Although we had many who agreed with the agreement, like me at the time, we all soon faced reality when we realised the strong animosity amongst some of the ethnic groups. Remember, it only takes a few to cause trouble, and that is what will no doubt happen again, but on a different scale.

The scale would be catastrophic for all. Although we all experienced hardship in the 1960s and 1970s, it would be us who would loose if hostility should grow. The Turkish Cypriots are not a few small villages anymore. There are hundreds of thousands around the world that will dive to the aide of their families if hostilities were to start. The Turkish Cypriots are richer than we expect, thus enabling them to gain more purchase power. Eventually, due to the distance from Greece to Cyprus, in a united federation, 50/50 government and growing population and wealth of the Turkish Cypriots, I would give our people 50 years (at the most) before the island‘s demographic position is shifted the other way. Just imagine how many Turkish Cypriots abroad will be offered opportunities to return to Cyprus. Please don’t forget, an opportunity for the Republic of Cyprus of today to be dissolved would be a Turkish dream come true. I would even go to say that Turkish is now re-planning a “pure” united federation deal with the UN and US for this purpose.

Unlike most of you in this forum, I am able to also speak, read and write in the Turkish language. I know how they really think and I am fully aware of how rich, financially and influentially, they are becoming.

Birkibrisli:
You sound like one of those Turkish Cypriot liberals your friends on the ATCANEWS.ORG website hate. Why? Because you believe in this “Never Ending Fantasy” world that all peoples of Cyprus are “Cypriots” and that we are all one nation. Let me please remind you that there is no “Cypriot”, you are either “Greek Cypriot” or “Turkish Cypriot”, and that is a reality my friend. It only takes one person in a federal union to ignite a fire and we’ll all go crumbling down.

I world think it best for all of us to be represented as two Republic states as Greek Cypriots and Turkish Cypriots, only. By securing this, we would be able to work together as two distinctive republic states, help each other’s economies, Tourism and the area of Sports, but also know our sensitivities. Our sensitivities of being kept at arms-length.

Please, just look at the other examples around Europe: Czech and Slovak Republics, Serbia/Montenegro, the old Yugoslavia, the Republic of and Northern Republic of Ireland. These were all established to promote peace as neighbours, and not pushed to live together under one roof.

There is no common Cypriot Heritage My Birkibrisli. If there is, please tell what it is. Is it the fact that we are happy that you landed in Cyprus in 1571, can we speak the same language, do we want to be able to speak Turkish? Why should we have to force that upon our children? Do we follow the same religious belief? Do we have the same culture?

Please Birkibrisli, tell me exactly what “Cypriot” heritage you are referring too. We are very different, and unlike you, I have seen many Greek and Turkish people of Cyprus killed because of people who live in a fantasy world that we can all live under one government. That is not how the world turns my friend. If that was the case, why is that the British and the Irish are still arguing over Northern Ireland? Why is their a North and South Korea? Why did Yugoslavia split up and why did the former USSR divide into many states (including Turkic ones).