Cyprus-Forum.com

[Lordo]

we are surounded with retards today. what you are saying is that dengtash wanted seperation. annan would have given him seperation. he wanted it but decided to oppose it. and when the tcs voted for it he said the gcs saved you by voting against it.

are you both really that reatded or am i imagining it. back to ilkokul 1st grade to both of you.

dengtash would have lost about 20 villages Omorfo and varosa. about 50000 would have returned to their homes in the north. and the ta would have been home by now except the 600 original ta army. you telling me all that is for seperation. kentish is right about you.

its funny how the union leaders who refer to the trnc as pseudo state and terkey as an occupying force said they were shocked when the gcs voted no.

a a a a a

b b b b b b

put them together and you have ba ba ba ba baba - get it.

The Anan Plan had various versions. In my opinion none of the Anan Plan versions would ever be accepted by the GCs, despite all the rhetoric that Anan Plan 3 was better compared to Anan Plan 5.
Regardless, it was at Anan plan 3 that Denktash decided to oppose it.The reason was very simple, Anan plan 3 had some slight chances to evolve to a non partition plan.That would be catastrophic for the dreams and financial interests of the various Denktashes, Eroglus and Grey wolves.

When Anan Plan 5 came up, it was pretty obvious that it was a partition plan, and on top of it the GCs were losing everything, while the TCs, settlers and Turkey were getting everything.
As for those 20 villages and 50,000 that would return, all those of GCs who voted yes just thought it would be so.Read the Anan Plan prerequisites and you will see that it would be a miracle if more than 1000 would ever manage to return.As for Morfou the town was returnable but not the gardens. What's Morfou worth without it's gardens???

Despite of all that when the Anan Plan 5 came up it would be politically stupid for Denktash to say "wow, we got everything, we even got disguised partition" vote for it.

I piro baby, if tcs want separation there is fcuk all you can do about it. try being more helpful. may be they will not want separation, but judging by the results of the last 50 years you boys have failed miserable in trying to unite the country.

[repulsewarrior]

vp, you place so much on the trustworthyness of the, as you call them, GC. i ask, what has Turkey done to prove they are trustworthy? isn't it logical therefore, as a voter to vote no, given that the Plan counted so much on the "Turks" keeping their word?

Trust is everyhting repulse without it you cannot place your future in someones hands, as for Turkey gaining our trust well they met their guarantee obligations, they gave us 37% of our island and are supporting us financially, what more can we ask of them. We are in a far better situation than we were with GCs.

you cannot say that vp, trust is a two-way street, goodwill must be demonstrated. you obviously are content to be subject to Turkey, and you would be discontent to be subject to Greece, however, if Turkey was more forthcoming as an International player, more honest with their intention, it would be difficult for the "Greeks" to express such outrage with the acts of a country so much bigger and powerful. their acts are as a result illegal, and they did not act as a Guarantor.

...as for Cypriots, your premise dismisses their existence whether Greek or Turkish, and that clearly has to do with Turkey, since the rest of Mankind does not see it the same way.

[Pyrpolizer]

So thank you for proving my point that the GCs did not negotiate in goodfaith because they had no real intention of uniting the island, their real aim was to enter the blackmailed EU, so how do you expect us to trust such people. Further to this experience now even more checks and balances are necessary to ensure GCs do not renege any future attempts at a solution. Dont you have to pass English profiency tests in the USA to get a green card or pledge alliegence to the Queen in the UK to become a citizen, why are you so shocked at alligence to Atatürks modern ideology, its only a formality.

In answer to your question, no the AP and recognized partition are two totally different things, one would have give me a recognized country all to myself, whereas the AP would have meant sharing the same country, idenity and government with the GCs. When you realize that the GCs are not genuine in the desire to share the island on a equal footing then you become like me a Partionist thinking that the best path is that each officially goes their own way.

It's one thing to negotiate in good faith, and another to give up when you realize nothing is being negotiated, nothing is being agreed, and everything is being set up.
Look at how the events evolved from the time the started in Nicosia (when Denkatsh even refused to attend) until the final setup at Burgenstock.
The conclusion is that Papadopoulos negotiated in good faith and finally gave up of any hope. And Turkey was so stupid the even after he gave up she kept on pushing the Americans to make the plan more and more bad.

Total rubbish I expected more from you Pyro in seeing the reality of the situation, the GCs had no intention of ever sharing the island, your rogue papastropous said I will not take on a country and hand over a constituent state, never....how can you just give up when you have said your are commited to finding a solution that will be put to referendum the only chance Cyprus will get to unite and you just give up please dont say this because it makes you look very stupid. The bottom line is like Verhugen said the GCs tricked us played us for fools they had no real intention of uniting, they do not want to share, why should they when they have everything they want and just when they were going to enter the EU.

First of all, it's important to be precise in what you put up as evidence
Papadopoulos said he will not receive a STATE and deliver A COMMUNITY. That's quite different from what you said.And he was absolutely right. The RoC would have gone and the GCs would just be a community to a Plan that a)Would never be implemented because Turkey would not implement it, because it would never become primary EU law, and because that was a fundamental demand of Turkey that was included in the plan.. JUST to name ONLY ONE of the reasons why the plan would end up to partition within the very 6 months. So what would the GCs be by then other than a Community? And what State would they have?

Secondly yes Papadopoulos from one point onwards really gave up. He explained in detail how they were working all night to present the mediators their positions, who in turn would satisfy one non important demand of ours having no impact on what the TCs+Turkey+settlers would get, with another of the Turkish side that would have dramatic effects on the GCs.

Not that I want to become the advocate of Papadopoulos. In my opinion this idiot has not even read the Anan Plan when he took over for President.He just trusted whatever Klerides the traitor told him. That's why he wrote the letter to the UN asking for urgent negotiations based on the Anan Plan.Klerides assured him not to worry the Turks would reject it as always and we would show up as the good boys... That's how it all started.By electing an idiot for a president to substitute a president who was a traitor. If you remember I said the very same things about Papadopoulos 100s of times in this forum.

But... don't worry. Soon enough we will have another traitor for President.

[Pyrpolizer]

I piro baby, if tcs want separation there is fcuk all you can do about it. try being more helpful. may be they will not want separation, but judging by the results of the last 50 years you boys have failed miserable in trying to unite the country.

Some Tcs want true reunification in a true Federal State. Some want unification that will be like two separate states VP for example Some want partition.
The first 2 groups surely see it as the only way to get rid of Turkey.

It is true that the last 50 years we boys have failed miserably in trying to unite the country, but so have you as well girls.

[Lordo]

get it into your thick heads that friendship is earned and cannot be forced.

get it.

[repulsewarrior]

It is true that the last 50 years we boys have failed miserably in trying to unite the country, but so have you as well girls.

...well said.

@ Lordo, goes both ways, doesn't it. and if you are a Cypriot first, why act like a "Turk" to spite "Greeks"?

[Lordo]

rw i think you better rephrase that comment. you will have your sexually repressed master debaters frothing in the mouth in no time.

its only fair that we are allowed to wind up our fanatic friends. they love it, surely you can see that.

[repulsewarrior]

...you play games with others, and demean yourself, it's your choice. i fight for Cyprus. they like you, as you say, allow me to express the thinking not of "Greeks" or "Turks"; i am grateful for it actually. and besides, being a Cypriot will piss them off even more, since the fanatic friends you speak of cannot accept a view where they come second to the thinking of people who may be Turkish or Greek, but who are Cypriots, first.

[Viewpoint]

vp, you place so much on the trustworthyness of the, as you call them, GC. i ask, what has Turkey done to prove they are trustworthy? isn't it logical therefore, as a voter to vote no, given that the Plan counted so much on the "Turks" keeping their word?

Trust is everyhting repulse without it you cannot place your future in someones hands, as for Turkey gaining our trust well they met their guarantee obligations, they gave us 37% of our island and are supporting us financially, what more can we ask of them. We are in a far better situation than we were with GCs.

you cannot say that vp, trust is a two-way street, goodwill must be demonstrated. you obviously are content to be subject to Turkey, and you would be discontent to be subject to Greece, however, if Turkey was more forthcoming as an International player, more honest with their intention, it would be difficult for the "Greeks" to express such outrage with the acts of a country so much bigger and powerful. their acts are as a result illegal, and they did not act as a Guarantor.

...as for Cypriots, your premise dismisses their existence whether Greek or Turkish, and that clearly has to do with Turkey, since the rest of Mankind does not see it the same way.

Turkey carried out its duty to bring about a peaceful exsistence to both communites, 39 years is all the proof you need that this is the case. You had your chance to built a Cypriot people back in 1960 but again the GCs goal was not unity and a Cypriot people but it was to hand over the island to Greece. Well the price you are paying for this stupity is the loss of 37% of your island, the only way you can even attempt to try and win back what you have physically lost is to persuade the TCs that unifying with the Gcs is far better than sticking with the TRNC Turkey and non recognition, todate you Gcs have done a miserable job at untilizing your advantages for the benefit of bringing the 2 sides together or including the TCs in the south. This in itself speaks volumes to those intelligent enough to understand it.

[Viewpoint]

So thank you for proving my point that the GCs did not negotiate in goodfaith because they had no real intention of uniting the island, their real aim was to enter the blackmailed EU, so how do you expect us to trust such people. Further to this experience now even more checks and balances are necessary to ensure GCs do not renege any future attempts at a solution. Dont you have to pass English profiency tests in the USA to get a green card or pledge alliegence to the Queen in the UK to become a citizen, why are you so shocked at alligence to Atatürks modern ideology, its only a formality.

In answer to your question, no the AP and recognized partition are two totally different things, one would have give me a recognized country all to myself, whereas the AP would have meant sharing the same country, idenity and government with the GCs. When you realize that the GCs are not genuine in the desire to share the island on a equal footing then you become like me a Partionist thinking that the best path is that each officially goes their own way.

It's one thing to negotiate in good faith, and another to give up when you realize nothing is being negotiated, nothing is being agreed, and everything is being set up.
Look at how the events evolved from the time the started in Nicosia (when Denkatsh even refused to attend) until the final setup at Burgenstock.
The conclusion is that Papadopoulos negotiated in good faith and finally gave up of any hope. And Turkey was so stupid the even after he gave up she kept on pushing the Americans to make the plan more and more bad.

Total rubbish I expected more from you Pyro in seeing the reality of the situation, the GCs had no intention of ever sharing the island, your rogue papastropous said I will not take on a country and hand over a constituent state, never....how can you just give up when you have said your are commited to finding a solution that will be put to referendum the only chance Cyprus will get to unite and you just give up please dont say this because it makes you look very stupid. The bottom line is like Verhugen said the GCs tricked us played us for fools they had no real intention of uniting, they do not want to share, why should they when they have everything they want and just when they were going to enter the EU.

First of all, it's important to be precise in what you put up as evidence
Papadopoulos said he will not receive a STATE and deliver A COMMUNITY. That's quite different from what you said.And he was absolutely right. The RoC would have gone and the GCs would just be a community to a Plan that a)Would never be implemented because Turkey would not implement it, because it would never become primary EU law, and because that was a fundamental demand of Turkey that was included in the plan.. JUST to name ONLY ONE of the reasons why the plan would end up to partition within the very 6 months. So what would the GCs be by then other than a Community? And what State would they have?

Secondly yes Papadopoulos from one point onwards really gave up. He explained in detail how they were working all night to present the mediators their positions, who in turn would satisfy one non important demand of ours having no impact on what the TCs+Turkey+settlers would get, with another of the Turkish side that would have dramatic effects on the GCs.

Not that I want to become the advocate of Papadopoulos. In my opinion this idiot has not even read the Anan Plan when he took over for President.He just trusted whatever Klerides the traitor told him. That's why he wrote the letter to the UN asking for urgent negotiations based on the Anan Plan.Klerides assured him not to worry the Turks would reject it as always and we would show up as the good boys... That's how it all started.By electing an idiot for a president to substitute a president who was a traitor. If you remember I said the very same things about Papadopoulos 100s of times in this forum.

But... don't worry. Soon enough we will have another traitor for President.

So basically you confirm that your leaders were not genuine and never negotiated in goodfaith, they are liars misleading the international community.