Cyprus-Forum.com

[Kikapu]

so dengtash eroglu and the grey wolves opposed it. how does that double bluff work again when really they wanted it but somehow came out against it? worth explaining one ore time.

we could do with a good laugh on a quiet sunday afternoon.

How do you know they apposed the AP?

Don't tell me because they said so in public.

How else did you expect them to convince the GCs that the AP was bad for the TCs and good for the GCs?

There was enough vote by the settlers to pass the AP in the north, so the north was a done deal for a YES vote no matter which way the TCs wanted to vote.

[Lordo]

nooooo not only during but after too. dengtash said the gcs saved you. you are one hell of an ass. just explain again how the double bluff worked. honest i will not laugh.

[Kikapu]

nooooo not only during but after too. dengtash said the gcs saved you. you are one hell of an ass. just explain again how the double bluff worked. honest i will not laugh.

What did you expect Denktash to say after the AP failed, "I was just kidding about opposing it". Aren't you the gullible.

Just that we can all have a good laugh, why don't you tell us what Denktash would have lost had the AP passed?

You did not answer this same question put to you a while back. Lets see if you have the courage to answer it this time around.

[Viewpoint]

So what's the difference between the AP then and you being a Partitionist now? Don't you now have the same values as the AP did then?

Kikapu you gave your word that you were going to leave your sillyness behind but you again continue to spout shit, the AP to the majorty of voters was a chance to move forward, a chnace to start agin and build a united Cyprus, how many of them do you think read all 9000 pages? the simplified details were handed out and we heard debates on the television telling us the pros and cons. Do you ever stop to think for a moment that the only ever chnace we will get was squandered, the GCs played the non negotiating card to produce the worst plan for it to be rejected, do you know that the GCs did not attend the last round of committee talks at the old Nicosia Airport becuase they were following the orders of their crappy leade papastrpolos who do some research clearly stated that he will never accept taking on a country to hading over a consitiuent state. You have lie blame where blame is due, all the separate committees were held and conducted by the UN and EU, they were a party to all that as agreed around the negotiating tables, where was the GC goodwill and determination to find a solution?

Now lets look at it from the angle of the TCs who fought their corner in goodfaith and developed a plan that they thought would best address their fears and concerns with the approval of the majority of the international community only to be slapped in the face by the GCs whos intenitions were once again a repitition of history where they have no real desire to share or create a union with the TCs. The GCs signed a deal in 1960 and still complain about it today, they set up the AP to fail and if by any remote chnace it had of been accepted they would have renegged on it anyway, so these people are not to be trusted, the only was they will accept us is by forcing us into minority status where they can manipulate discriminate and push us to one side with no real say in our own country.....thats why I no longer want to put my people at risk and prefer to keep them out of the clutches of people who do not regard us as equal partners...thats why I support partition as the only real solution to this problem.

If we are going to have a serious debate, you need to answer my questions put to you, as I will do with yours, before you start making other statements, so, please answer this question first.

So what's the difference between the AP then and you being a Partitionist now? Don't you now have the same values as the AP did then?

Lets say that everything you wrote above are to be the facts just for the sake of argument, does it not then prove that the AP was a flawed plan, regardless of who did what and who did not do what. Once the AP started to go off the tracks being a fairly equal settlement plan for most Cypriots before the AP5, it then became in the interest of Papadopoulos to make the AP really unpalatable to the GCs to get the OXI vote by either not demanding anything else, assuming he would have gotten it even if had tried after certain point, since Christofias did not get very far in the last settlement talks for the settlement to be based on True Federation, Democracy, Human Rights, International law and the EU Principles, and that's with Cyprus being in the EU having a veto power over Turkey's EU membership, so what chance did Papadopoulos had when the AP was fixed to benefit Turkey ONLY and no one else, thanks to the powers to be and the friends of Turkey at that time.

At some point, the main prize for Papadopoulos was the EU membership first and the AP last, which is what he got, thanks to Turkey getting everything it wanted, including GCs applying for state jobs in the north state not only had to speak Turkish, but they also had to give their allegiance to Ataturk for fcuk sake. What was next, for them to become circumcised? It's all very well for the TCs to fight for their corner to get as much as possible that will benefit them, but it went way too far, so in the end Papadopoulos was correct when he said that he was not willing to lose a country just to gain a state, and not a very secure state at that. Would you? Turkey made it very easy for the GCs to say OXI to the AP.

Turkey could have easily gotten around Papadopoulos intentions on the AP by not wanting and taking everything. Had Turkey been more reasonable, perhaps majority of the GCs would have said "YES" to the AP, no matter how much Papadopoulos cried on TV before the referendum. Papadopoulos only had one vote like anyone else. He could have said OXI himself, like supposedly what Denktash did, but the majority of the GCs would have said "YES" if it was a reasonable settlement plan. It was not and I'm going to use this quote one more time, because it make the point very clearly what I'm saying. In fact, why don't you read the whole article and tell me where the writer is wrong with his article.


The Divisions of Cyprus
by Perry Anderson

http://www.lrb.co.uk/v30/n08/ande01_.html

"When votes were counted, the results said everything: 65 per cent of Turkish Cypriots accepted it, 76 per cent of Greek Cypriots rejected it. What political scientist, without needing to know anything about the plan, could for an instant doubt whom it favoured?"

So thank you for proving my point that the GCs did not negotiate in goodfaith because they had no real intention of uniting the island, their real aim was to enter the blackmailed EU, so how do you expect us to trust such people. Further to this experience now even more checks and balances are necessary to ensure GCs do not renege any future attempts at a solution. Dont you have to pass English profiency tests in the USA to get a green card or pledge alliegence to the Queen in the UK to become a citizen, why are you so shocked at alligence to Atatürks modern ideology, its only a formality.

In answer to your question, no the AP and recognized partition are two totally different things, one would have give me a recognized country all to myself, whereas the AP would have meant sharing the same country, idenity and government with the GCs. When you realize that the GCs are not genuine in the desire to share the island on a equal footing then you become like me a Partionist thinking that the best path is that each officially goes their own way.

[Lordo]

we are surounded with retards today. what you are saying is that dengtash wanted seperation. annan would have given him seperation. he wanted it but decided to oppose it. and when the tcs voted for it he said the gcs saved you by voting against it.

are you both really that reatded or am i imagining it. back to ilkokul 1st grade to both of you.

dengtash would have lost about 20 villages Omorfo and varosa. about 50000 would have returned to their homes in the north. and the ta would have been home by now except the 600 original ta army. you telling me all that is for seperation. kentish is right about you.

its funny how the union leaders who refer to the trnc as pseudo state and terkey as an occupying force said they were shocked when the gcs voted no.

a a a a a

b b b b b b

put them together and you have ba ba ba ba baba - get it.

[repulsewarrior]

vp, you place so much on the trustworthyness of the, as you call them, GC. i ask, what has Turkey done to prove they are trustworthy? isn't it logical therefore, as a voter to vote no, given that the Plan counted so much on the "Turks" keeping their word?

[Viewpoint]

vp, you place so much on the trustworthyness of the, as you call them, GC. i ask, what has Turkey done to prove they are trustworthy? isn't it logical therefore, as a voter to vote no, given that the Plan counted so much on the "Turks" keeping their word?

Trust is everyhting repulse without it you cannot place your future in someones hands, as for Turkey gaining our trust well they met their guarantee obligations, they gave us 37% of our island and are supporting us financially, what more can we ask of them. We are in a far better situation than we were with GCs.

[Pyrpolizer]

So thank you for proving my point that the GCs did not negotiate in goodfaith because they had no real intention of uniting the island, their real aim was to enter the blackmailed EU, so how do you expect us to trust such people. Further to this experience now even more checks and balances are necessary to ensure GCs do not renege any future attempts at a solution. Dont you have to pass English profiency tests in the USA to get a green card or pledge alliegence to the Queen in the UK to become a citizen, why are you so shocked at alligence to Atatürks modern ideology, its only a formality.

In answer to your question, no the AP and recognized partition are two totally different things, one would have give me a recognized country all to myself, whereas the AP would have meant sharing the same country, idenity and government with the GCs. When you realize that the GCs are not genuine in the desire to share the island on a equal footing then you become like me a Partionist thinking that the best path is that each officially goes their own way.

It's one thing to negotiate in good faith, and another to give up when you realize nothing is being negotiated, nothing is being agreed, and everything is being set up.
Look at how the events evolved from the time the started in Nicosia (when Denkatsh even refused to attend) until the final setup at Burgenstock.
The conclusion is that Papadopoulos negotiated in good faith and finally gave up of any hope. And Turkey was so stupid the even after he gave up she kept on pushing the Americans to make the plan more and more bad.

[Pyrpolizer]

we are surounded with retards today. what you are saying is that dengtash wanted seperation. annan would have given him seperation. he wanted it but decided to oppose it. and when the tcs voted for it he said the gcs saved you by voting against it.

are you both really that reatded or am i imagining it. back to ilkokul 1st grade to both of you.

dengtash would have lost about 20 villages Omorfo and varosa. about 50000 would have returned to their homes in the north. and the ta would have been home by now except the 600 original ta army. you telling me all that is for seperation. kentish is right about you.

its funny how the union leaders who refer to the trnc as pseudo state and terkey as an occupying force said they were shocked when the gcs voted no.

a a a a a

b b b b b b

put them together and you have ba ba ba ba baba - get it.

The Anan Plan had various versions. In my opinion none of the Anan Plan versions would ever be accepted by the GCs, despite all the rhetoric that Anan Plan 3 was better compared to Anan Plan 5.
Regardless, it was at Anan plan 3 that Denktash decided to oppose it.The reason was very simple, Anan plan 3 had some slight chances to evolve to a non partition plan.That would be catastrophic for the dreams and financial interests of the various Denktashes, Eroglus and Grey wolves.

When Anan Plan 5 came up, it was pretty obvious that it was a partition plan, and on top of it the GCs were losing everything, while the TCs, settlers and Turkey were getting everything.
As for those 20 villages and 50,000 that would return, all those of GCs who voted yes just thought it would be so.Read the Anan Plan prerequisites and you will see that it would be a miracle if more than 1000 would ever manage to return.As for Morfou the town was returnable but not the gardens. What's Morfou worth without it's gardens???

Despite of all that when the Anan Plan 5 came up it would be politically stupid for Denktash to say "wow, we got everything, we even got disguised partition" vote for it.

[Viewpoint]

So thank you for proving my point that the GCs did not negotiate in goodfaith because they had no real intention of uniting the island, their real aim was to enter the blackmailed EU, so how do you expect us to trust such people. Further to this experience now even more checks and balances are necessary to ensure GCs do not renege any future attempts at a solution. Dont you have to pass English profiency tests in the USA to get a green card or pledge alliegence to the Queen in the UK to become a citizen, why are you so shocked at alligence to Atatürks modern ideology, its only a formality.

In answer to your question, no the AP and recognized partition are two totally different things, one would have give me a recognized country all to myself, whereas the AP would have meant sharing the same country, idenity and government with the GCs. When you realize that the GCs are not genuine in the desire to share the island on a equal footing then you become like me a Partionist thinking that the best path is that each officially goes their own way.

It's one thing to negotiate in good faith, and another to give up when you realize nothing is being negotiated, nothing is being agreed, and everything is being set up.
Look at how the events evolved from the time the started in Nicosia (when Denkatsh even refused to attend) until the final setup at Burgenstock.
The conclusion is that Papadopoulos negotiated in good faith and finally gave up of any hope. And Turkey was so stupid the even after he gave up she kept on pushing the Americans to make the plan more and more bad.

Total rubbish I expected more from you Pyro in seeing the reality of the situation, the GCs had no intention of ever sharing the island, your rogue papastropous said I will not take on a country and hand over a constituent state, never....how can you just give up when you have said your are commited to finding a solution that will be put to referendum the only chance Cyprus will get to unite and you just give up please dont say this because it makes you look very stupid. The bottom line is like Verhugen said the GCs tricked us played us for fools they had no real intention of uniting, they do not want to share, why should they when they have everything they want and just when they were going to enter the EU.