Cyprus-Forum.com

[bill cobbett]

Some more news of the visit of the Trades Union Platform, the leaders of the CY workers of the Occupied Areas, for contacts here in London this past week...

Some exciting news...

This past Thursday the leaders of the platform, the leaders of the Opposition to "trnc", met with members of the National Federation of CYs in the UK, the umbrella body of the GB CY refugee groups associated with the Free Areas.

According to CNA...

"...The two sides exchanged views on the Cyprus issue, ascertained that they share the same concerns over the future of the island and agreed on pursuing every available opportunity to join forces against the almost four-decade long Turkish occupation..."

I just wonder whether we'll see CYs marching together to Trafalgar Square for the annual rally in London this Summer...???

We do all welcome this news ...???

[DrCyprus]

If there is going to be a reunification of the two communities, it has to be done slowly. There should open places where kibrisli and kipraioi can hang out together. After that, when friendships start being made and opinions start being shared we can reach a new level of cooperation.

For the time being, it's just Turkey trying to partition Cyprus one way or the other.

[Lordo]

If there is going to be a reunification of the two communities, it has to be done slowly. There should open places where kibrisli and kipraioi can hang out together. After that, when friendships start being made and opinions start being shared we can reach a new level of cooperation.

For the time being, it's just Turkey trying to partition Cyprus one way or the other.

and of course the roc is just cant wait and rushing to share power with the tcs and pigs will fly too. it takes two to tango. and one side we have terkey and the other we have the roc. you will find the tcs showing the two fingers to both. they can both go take a running jump. tcs will govern themselves and nothing short of that will be acceptable.

[Kikapu]

Kikapu in reality 44% of the Kibrislis +settlers voted "NO" for the Anan Plan.
There are Tcs who want clear/straight partition no matter what. Plus the majority of settlers of course. The Anan Plan was disguised partition so they did not trust it.

Imo the fact that they gave citizenship to so many settlers, means that they will never vote for any plan unless it is worse (for the GCs) than the Anan Plan.

I was always saying that Turkey and the TC leadership were always working to MAKE SOLUTION IMPOSSIBLE.

I believe your figures on the TCs who said "NO" to the AP, Pyro. But I also believe there were many TCs who had voted for the AP believing it was a peace plan for a Unified Cyprus. They were either mislead by the Partitionist or that they just did not know enough about the AP. How can anyone blame them. No one knew all the 9,000+ pages of the "landmines" filled Annan Plan for Cyprus and for the vast majority of Cypriots, both GCs and TCs, along with others.

No, no, I am not blaming them in fact the Kypreoi who voted YES did so for the same reason like the TCs, I mean they thought it was a peace plan coming from the UN to Unify Cyprus etc.

My point was that because the settlers were given "citizenship" there is no chance for any new plan to pass their voting ( i mean the voting of the settlers plus the voting of those TCs who are partitionists) unless it is a partition plan, hence the will of the remaining TCs who want true reunification goes away. Hence SOLUTION IMPOSSIBLE.

I do believe that many of the 24% of the GCs who had said YES to the AP also did not understand fully what the AP was all about. However, our good friend Bananiot did understand the AP and voted YES anyway. I will give him the benefit of the doubt and say that he had good intentions that the "peace plan" would eventually become a real peace plan with time. On the other hand, it did not work for the 1960 constitution, so I don't know why it would have been any better this time around, when the AP was worse than the 1960 constitution. The point is, just how many of those who had voted for the AP in 2004, TCs and GCs, would vote the same today knowing almost everything there is to know about the AP of 2004, other than the usual suspects. My guess is, very few!

You are also correct about Turkey's intentions on the "Solution Impossible". But in time, she may not have a choice but to seek a solution in Cyprus. Nothing lasts forever.

[Lordo]

you are one hell of a blind man.

as one of the trade unionists said - the terks got what they wanted from the annan plan vote, so has the gcs and the greeks. the only ones it did not benefit is the tcs. but dont you worry your little head now they will never forget.

you say terkey will change its position in time. what makes you think the tcs will have anything to do with the roc. wake up and smell the bullshit good and proper. you should do you post enough.

[repulsewarrior]

...the Financial Crisis, in the north, and south, may be a boon to Cypriot Unification. If the Republic can resolve its problems (without the "help" from Greece), and Turkey continues with its "privatisation" of the north, Cypriots will see what benefits there are to their Independence as one State. Both "Greeks" and "Turks" will be sidelined as the "motherlands" would have no credibility, Cyprus will become a voice Cypriots, whether Greek or Turkish, will rally to.

[Viewpoint]

repulse you still dont understand that the GCs do not want to share they want total control and us TCs as a minority.

[repulsewarrior]

...and you continue to deny that "Turks" and "Greeks" only represent a body of Cypriots. by representing yourself as a Cypriot first, you deny them a voice to be your representative in the discussions which continue toward solving the Cyprus Problem.

[Kikapu]

I became a partionist after the failure of the AP, before that I thought the only way forward was to unite by trusting the GCs but after seeing and living the rejection of the AP I understood that it is not possible to unite with GCs unless we submit to their demands that we give up all our rights and accept minority rights in a GC state.

That would be like saying, "just because a girl turned down the man's advances, he turned Gay"!

Please stop being your silly self its getting very tiresome, changing ones opinion due to further understanding of the real situation is nothing like changing your sexuality which is something you are born with. so your analogy is what you spout the most shit.

OK, let me get serious in that case, since you asked so nicely.

You said "YES" to Annan plan that was to violate others Democratic rights, Human Rights, International Law and EU Principles, as well as keeping most of their property in the north state, allowing to let several thousand GCs live in the north without any political rights in the north state or be able to leave their property to their heirs, have a very loose Confederation, Turkey having a major say so in Cyprus, just to name a few problems with the AP, and since the GCs said "OXI" to such a plan, you became a Partitionist at Heart since 2004. Really??

So what's the difference between the AP then and you being a Partitionist now? Don't you now have the same values as the AP did then?

Kikapu you gave your word that you were going to leave your sillyness behind but you again continue to spout shit, the AP to the majorty of voters was a chance to move forward, a chnace to start agin and build a united Cyprus, how many of them do you think read all 9000 pages? the simplified details were handed out and we heard debates on the television telling us the pros and cons. Do you ever stop to think for a moment that the only ever chnace we will get was squandered, the GCs played the non negotiating card to produce the worst plan for it to be rejected, do you know that the GCs did not attend the last round of committee talks at the old Nicosia Airport becuase they were following the orders of their crappy leade papastrpolos who do some research clearly stated that he will never accept taking on a country to hading over a consitiuent state. You have lie blame where blame is due, all the separate committees were held and conducted by the UN and EU, they were a party to all that as agreed around the negotiating tables, where was the GC goodwill and determination to find a solution?

Now lets look at it from the angle of the TCs who fought their corner in goodfaith and developed a plan that they thought would best address their fears and concerns with the approval of the majority of the international community only to be slapped in the face by the GCs whos intenitions were once again a repitition of history where they have no real desire to share or create a union with the TCs. The GCs signed a deal in 1960 and still complain about it today, they set up the AP to fail and if by any remote chnace it had of been accepted they would have renegged on it anyway, so these people are not to be trusted, the only was they will accept us is by forcing us into minority status where they can manipulate discriminate and push us to one side with no real say in our own country.....thats why I no longer want to put my people at risk and prefer to keep them out of the clutches of people who do not regard us as equal partners...thats why I support partition as the only real solution to this problem.

If we are going to have a serious debate, you need to answer my questions put to you, as I will do with yours, before you start making other statements, so, please answer this question first.

So what's the difference between the AP then and you being a Partitionist now? Don't you now have the same values as the AP did then?

Lets say that everything you wrote above are to be the facts just for the sake of argument, does it not then prove that the AP was a flawed plan, regardless of who did what and who did not do what. Once the AP started to go off the tracks being a fairly equal settlement plan for most Cypriots before the AP5, it then became in the interest of Papadopoulos to make the AP really unpalatable to the GCs to get the OXI vote by either not demanding anything else, assuming he would have gotten it even if had tried after certain point, since Christofias did not get very far in the last settlement talks for the settlement to be based on True Federation, Democracy, Human Rights, International law and the EU Principles, and that's with Cyprus being in the EU having a veto power over Turkey's EU membership, so what chance did Papadopoulos had when the AP was fixed to benefit Turkey ONLY and no one else, thanks to the powers to be and the friends of Turkey at that time.

At some point, the main prize for Papadopoulos was the EU membership first and the AP last, which is what he got, thanks to Turkey getting everything it wanted, including GCs applying for state jobs in the north state not only had to speak Turkish, but they also had to give their allegiance to Ataturk for fcuk sake. What was next, for them to become circumcised? It's all very well for the TCs to fight for their corner to get as much as possible that will benefit them, but it went way too far, so in the end Papadopoulos was correct when he said that he was not willing to lose a country just to gain a state, and not a very secure state at that. Would you? Turkey made it very easy for the GCs to say OXI to the AP.

Turkey could have easily gotten around Papadopoulos intentions on the AP by not wanting and taking everything. Had Turkey been more reasonable, perhaps majority of the GCs would have said "YES" to the AP, no matter how much Papadopoulos cried on TV before the referendum. Papadopoulos only had one vote like anyone else. He could have said OXI himself, like supposedly what Denktash did, but the majority of the GCs would have said "YES" if it was a reasonable settlement plan. It was not and I'm going to use this quote one more time, because it make the point very clearly what I'm saying. In fact, why don't you read the whole article and tell me where the writer is wrong with his article.


The Divisions of Cyprus
by Perry Anderson

http://www.lrb.co.uk/v30/n08/ande01_.html

"When votes were counted, the results said everything: 65 per cent of Turkish Cypriots accepted it, 76 per cent of Greek Cypriots rejected it. What political scientist, without needing to know anything about the plan, could for an instant doubt whom it favoured?"

[Lordo]

so dengtash eroglu and the grey wolves opposed it. how does that double bluff work again when really they wanted it but somehow came out against it? worth explaining one more time.

we could do with a good laugh on a quiet sunday afternoon.