Cyprus-Forum.com

[Kikapu]

Whatever you attribue it to the result is the same the Gcs have never wanted to share the island equally with us, they view us as some sort infering body that should be taught a lesson and put in their place which is a "minority rights" but they underestimate our etermination and grit to never let go of our rights to a partnership as reflected in the UN and world mindset that Cyprus should be a BBF with political equality of the 2 states.

All the Federal countries Nikitas mentioned above also have "political equality of their states" which you don't like.

What you want, is to have an Apartheid system in the north state where only the TCs and settlers have a political voice. This is where your Racist and Fascistic mindset is.

Politcal equality is not handing over the reigns of your state to the advantage of one state therefore making it a unitary state, your idea of political equality is allowing for lookholes and manipulation so that one state can easily dominate and control the other gifting the north state to the south state on a platter.

Non of what you spout about happens in the Federal state countries Nikitas gave you, so what's the problem?

Maybe because they all respect Democracy, Human Rights, International laws which is something you are allergic to. You believe more in an Apartheid system, based on discrimination and minority rule!

You yourself have confırmed time and time again that the system is wide open to manipulation due to loopholes, only one seat is necessary to hand the north state to the south state on a plate...you soon forget how your own sell out plan exposed the dangers facing TCs if they were ever to fall into your trap, all we ask for are clear precise checks, balances and guarantees, we will never leave things to chance.

BBF does not say it has to be a political equality of each community, but only of each state. It doesn't say either, that each state can ONLY consists of one major ethnic group holding ALL the political power in that state.

I gave you a plan that respects everyone's Democratic and Human Rights, which is what you need to have as a EU member state. The fact that it was not an Apartheid plan, it doesn't mean it was a bad plan for the TCs who want to live in a Democratic country of Cyprus. Maybe it was a "bad plan" only to Turkey and the Partitionists.

I also gave you answers to avoid such a scenario, which you conveniently leave out, such as reducing the north state by 50% of it's present size, as well as the "Grandfathered-in population" and the Rotating Presidency with a built in veto power. Cyprus is in the EU where you are not going to escape Democracy and Human Rights to do as you will against those who are not TCs or settlers. You will not be able to treat others as foreigners without political rights in their own country and forcing them to give their allegiances to Ataturk who has ZERO association with Cyprus. Checks & Balances does not mean one ethnic group stepping on the Democratic and Human Rights of others. It means protecting everyone's Democratic and Human Rights.

[Viewpoint]

Your plan gave GCs the opportunity to take the 1 seat they need to dominate and control the whole island and nullify the TCs......you yourself confirmed that yes this was a possibility, all we ask for is a plan where this is not possible clear defined lines that cannot be used to dissorted to the benefit of either state.

[Maximus]

Your plan gave GCs the opportunity to take the 1 seat they need to dominate and control the whole island and nullify the TCs......you yourself confirmed that yes this was a possibility, all we ask for is a plan where this is not possible clear defined lines that cannot be used to dissorted to the benefit of either state.

you will get and end up with nothing, believe me, not a thing.

[Kikapu]

Your plan gave GCs the opportunity to take the 1 seat they need to dominate and control the whole island and nullify the TCs......you yourself confirmed that yes this was a possibility, all we ask for is a plan where this is not possible clear defined lines that cannot be used to dissorted to the benefit of either state.

Your non understanding of Democracy and how a Federal system works is a major obstacle for you. Maybe you trully do not fully understand how Democracy and Federal system works or you are trully trying to make propaganda with baseless fears on the ignorant. Giving your history, I believe it's the latter.

First of all the sky will not fall in if you did lose any seat in the upper house because there will be many Checks & Balances built into the Federal Constitution to protect everyone's Democratic and Human Rights. The ONLY way you are going to lose any seat in the north to the GCs, is if you do not return 50% of the north to become part of the south state. If you don't return any land back, forget about losing just one seat in the north's upper house, you will lose all of them to the GCs in time. This will be entirely your doings purely based on greed, and you will be punished for it Democratically. You are not going to have your cake and eat it too. It's going to be one or the other. Funny how you still don't talk about the safety measures I put into my plan that the north will not lose any seats in the upper house if the TCs as a collective community didn't want to lose any. If they don't, they will need to make compromises and one of them will be to give back 50% of the north to the south state.

[Viewpoint]

Again we are covering old ground we have discussed your poisonous sell out plan many times, your ploy is for us to return so much land that it will make it far easier for GCs to take the one seat they need to take total control of the decision making body. Why are you so much against an equal balance between the 2 communities, why do you want to leave the door wide open for GCs to get the upper hand to do as they wish? erasing any effective say we TCs may have in our own future?

[Kikapu]

Again we are covering old ground we have discussed your poisonous sell out plan many times, your ploy is for us to return so much land that it will make it far easier for GCs to take the one seat they need to take total control of the decision making body. Why are you so much against an equal balance between the 2 communities, why do you want to leave the door wide open for GCs to get the upper hand to do as they wish? erasing any effective say we TCs may have in our own future?

I'm going by facts.

1. BBF is NOT asking for a political equality of two communities, but rather of the two states.
2. Cyprus is in the EU, which the EU respects Democracy and Human Rights and it requires it 100% from it's member states.

If you can change the two things above then you can perhaps have what you want. Can you?

Let me know when you have succeeded, will you!

[boulio]

how will that happen if the tc state in the north is 18-20% with all tc living in that state?
you make no sense whats so ever.

and there have been countless surveys done by cyprus 2015 that the vast majority of refugues(85%)would never reuturn to a tc state.

[DrCyprus]

Viewpoint just wants to get rid of the gypsy GCs and make Cyprus part of the New Holy Ottoman Empire.

[Viewpoint]

Again we are covering old ground we have discussed your poisonous sell out plan many times, your ploy is for us to return so much land that it will make it far easier for GCs to take the one seat they need to take total control of the decision making body. Why are you so much against an equal balance between the 2 communities, why do you want to leave the door wide open for GCs to get the upper hand to do as they wish? erasing any effective say we TCs may have in our own future?

I'm going by facts.

1. BBF is NOT asking for a political equality of two communities, but rather of the two states.
2. Cyprus is in the EU, which the EU respects Democracy and Human Rights and it requires it 100% from it's member states.

If you can change the two things above then you can perhaps have what you want. Can you?

Let me know when you have succeeded, will you!

I have given you my thoughts on how the upper house balance can be achieved through a pan voting first past the post system so the size of each state becomes irrelevant and it will be a one man one vote system surely this fits well with the democracy and human rights you want for all?

The Eu is an ineffective toothless tiger than cannot stop any member state from manipulating loopholes to the detriment of specific members of their population due to their ethnic origins, that's why precise checks and balances are necessary to stop any such moves, surely you cannot have anything against such measures.

[DrCyprus]

The Eu is an ineffective toothless tiger than cannot stop any member state from manipulating loopholes to the detriment of specific members of their population due to their ethnic origins.

Can you give us examples of this?