Cyprus-Forum.com

[observer]

Doing a little research beyond trawling the internet
Mersin has an average of 609.6 mm of rain per year and an average of 67.7 rainy days.
London has an average of 591.8 mm of rain per year and an average of 110 wet days.

No shortage of water. London was wetter than usual this winter, western Turkey was a drier than usual this winter.

[bill cobbett]

The weather report from 11 Dec 2012.

Heavy Rain Hits Mersin, Floods Houses.

Some of the areas have been flooded due to torrential rain in the southern province of Mersin. Heavy rain has also resulted in sewer blockage; and sewage water flooding in some houses.

Lashing out to municipal teams, most of the citizens had to discharge flood water out of their homes with their own means. A mother, claiming that her children got infected due to sewage water, said "We called the teams but they do not come. Even if they come, they just clean and go."

Apart from this, drivers stranded in traffic because streets were filled up with floodwater. The police has rescued people stuck in their places with an armored car. Also a child who got a fever was taken to the hospital by police teams with the ambulance.

As I’ve said before, sometimes you have drought, sometimes dry weather, sometimes wet weather, sometimes floods. It averages out which is why you have dams.

Well, that was the situation 2 years ago.

The situation today in Turkey is one of a severe winter drought, ... but in one respect you're right Observer, that is why we build dams. It ain't rained during this past winter and Turkey prob hasn't invested in the storage of water, by building more dams, to store the water from the good years to see it through the bad years.

The Republic, on the other hand, has an unmatchable record of building dams since "independence". It now has the highest number of dams, that's to say the highest storage capacity per head of pop of any country in Europe. It has also invested heavily in desalt plants, the conveyor system and is now moving in to water re-cycling schemes.

[observer]

The reason why RoC builds more dams than anyone else is that RoC has less rain than anyone else, certainly any other European country. Nicosia receives an average of 342.2 mm of rain per year, just over half that of Mersin’s 609.6 mm per year. You need your dams and desalination.

The Mersin flood article I posted was last winter. This winter may be drier. If you are claiming that a location that receives, on average, the same rainfall as London is a desperately dry area then I really must disagree. I’m sure that the inhabitants of the Thames valley would be on my side, especially after this winter. And the inhabitants of Mersin after last winter would side with me too. The rainfall figures don’t even include the run-off from the snow melt from the Taurus Mountains.

The exceptionally dry weather (note the word exceptionally) articles that you keep quoting refer to Istanbul. That’s rather like quoting the weather figures from Aberdeen to illustrate the climate in London.

You seem to be clutching at straws.

First it’s all a big hoax. Construction work at both ends and pipeline laid seems to prove you wrong.
Then ‘water won’t flow uphill’. How do you think water gets from your desalination plants to Nicosia? Clue – it’s not carried in buckets.
Then ‘the water will crush the pipes’. The pressure inside a pipe filled with water is the same as that outside as both have the same effective height of water above them.

70 years ago, in 1944, the Allies laid the pipeline PLUTO (Pipeline Under The Ocean) 70 miles from the Isle of Wight to the Cherbourg peninsula. Later, other lines were laid across the Channel delivering ultimately 100,000 gallons of fuel a day to the invasion forces. The real surprise would be if a pipeline could not be laid across a shorter distance in 2014.

[Jerry]

70 years ago, in 1944, the Allies laid the pipeline PLUTO (Pipeline Under The Ocean) 70 miles from the Isle of Wight to the Cherbourg peninsula. Later, other lines were laid across the Channel delivering ultimately 100,000 gallons of fuel a day to the invasion forces. The real surprise would be if a pipeline could not be laid across a shorter distance in 2014.

Pluto was temporary steel reinforced 3 inch pie laid on the seabed, hardly a valid comparison.

[observer]

70 years ago, in 1944, the Allies laid the pipeline PLUTO (Pipeline Under The Ocean) 70 miles from the Isle of Wight to the Cherbourg peninsula. Later, other lines were laid across the Channel delivering ultimately 100,000 gallons of fuel a day to the invasion forces. The real surprise would be if a pipeline could not be laid across a shorter distance in 2014.

Pluto was temporary steel reinforced 3 inch pie laid on the seabed, hardly a valid comparison.

Agreed, but 70 years ago radios still used valves and they had bakerlite records that played at 78 rpm. Technological advances meant different techniques are used in different fields to achieve the same or better results.The point is that in 1944 it was quite possible to transport fluids 70 miles through a pipe under the ocean. Why is it thought by some to be impossible to do the same thing today over a shorter distance?

[Jerry]

70 years ago, in 1944, the Allies laid the pipeline PLUTO (Pipeline Under The Ocean) 70 miles from the Isle of Wight to the Cherbourg peninsula. Later, other lines were laid across the Channel delivering ultimately 100,000 gallons of fuel a day to the invasion forces. The real surprise would be if a pipeline could not be laid across a shorter distance in 2014.

Pluto was temporary steel reinforced 3 inch pie laid on the seabed, hardly a valid comparison.

Agreed, but 70 years ago radios still used valves and they had bakerlite records that played at 78 rpm. Technological advances meant different techniques are used in different fields to achieve the same or better results.The point is that in 1944 it was quite possible to transport fluids 70 miles through a pipe under the ocean. Why is it thought by some to be impossible to do the same thing today over a shorter distance?

Not suggesting it's impossible but your comparison was poor, the plastic pipeline to Cyprus is suspended above the seabed, it's much wider and "permanent" in an earthquake zone. It's just possible that the pipeline could be snagged by the anchor chain of large ships. Only time will tell if it succeeds.

[bill cobbett]

The reason why RoC builds more dams than anyone else is that RoC has less rain than anyone else, certainly any other European country. Nicosia receives an average of 342.2 mm of rain per year, just over half that of Mersin’s 609.6 mm per year. You need your dams and desalination.

The Mersin flood article I posted was last winter. This winter may be drier. If you are claiming that a location that receives, on average, the same rainfall as London is a desperately dry area then I really must disagree. I’m sure that the inhabitants of the Thames valley would be on my side, especially after this winter. And the inhabitants of Mersin after last winter would side with me too. The rainfall figures don’t even include the run-off from the snow melt from the Taurus Mountains.

The exceptionally dry weather (note the word exceptionally) articles that you keep quoting refer to Istanbul. That’s rather like quoting the weather figures from Aberdeen to illustrate the climate in London.

You seem to be clutching at straws.

First it’s all a big hoax. Construction work at both ends and pipeline laid seems to prove you wrong.
Then ‘water won’t flow uphill’. How do you think water gets from your desalination plants to Nicosia? Clue – it’s not carried in buckets.
Then ‘the water will crush the pipes’. The pressure inside a pipe filled with water is the same as that outside as both have the same effective height of water above them.

70 years ago, in 1944, the Allies laid the pipeline PLUTO (Pipeline Under The Ocean) 70 miles from the Isle of Wight to the Cherbourg peninsula. Later, other lines were laid across the Channel delivering ultimately 100,000 gallons of fuel a day to the invasion forces. The real surprise would be if a pipeline could not be laid across a shorter distance in 2014.

Firstly PLUTO ( and this has been raised already in this thread )... BillC has visited an exhibition on this at Shanklin Chine, IoW. ...
As J says... completely different specification. The cross-sea part of PLUTO was a 3 inch diameter multi-layered metal or steel pipe laid on a sedimentary sea-bed in max 200 feet of water. It wasn't wallowing around in some fanciful mid-ocean state.

As you say, the PLUTO system has of course moved on and nowadays there isn't an off-shore gas or oil field that isn't connected with hundreds of miles of steel pipe laid on the sea-bed and built to withstand the massive pressures down there, which begs the question that if Turkey is serious about this project, why hasn't it adopted a tried and tested modern PLUTO-type system...??? ... and instead has opted for the novel Heath Robinson, floating plastic pipe solution...???

Secondly, Bill C has made absolutely bugger-all claims as to the over-all, average rainfall in Mersin or anywhere else in Turkey. The refs are to this past winter's rainfall and the parlous state of the Turkish reservoirs.

Thirdly, there has only been activity, in recent weeks, close to shore at Anamur. That hasn't passed unnoticed but there has been no activity off-shore CY. So your claims that "pipeline laid" are far, far from the whole truth. It still points to jetties with a ship transport of water in-between.

Fourthly , in the Zaman and Hurriyet articles listed above you will find refs to the poor water supply situation in Ankara and in the west and south of Turkey, as well as Istanbul. ... and not just Istanbul or Aberdeen or wherever you claim. If you have an issue with with Zaman and Hurriyet's reporting... take it up with them.

Fifthly, the Republic's five desalt plants are connected to the Southern Conveyor System. A massive, largely hidden in pipes and tunnels, project that runs along the southern coast (from Paphos to practically Agia Napa) and with a spur to Nic. In parts using gravity and in others pumped, as the Republic doesn't have magical Turkish Gravity that makes water flow uphill.

Sixthly, you have provided no evidence of the level of snow on the Taurus and further you haven't considered the snow to rainfall equivalent, which is widely reported as 10:1 ... "... The "average" snow to liquid ratio is 10:1. This is saying that if 10 inches of snow fell and that snow was melted it would produce 1 inch of liquid precipitation in the rain gauge. ..."

Ten inches of snow on a mountain equals one inch of rain!

[bill cobbett]

Lemoncy.eu re-printing a report from the press of the Occupied Areas as to the disastrous level of water in the dams up there and the increase in salinity of the aquifers, under the headline...

Dams are empty

"... NICOSIA – Although the winter is almost over, there has not been enough rainfall in Cyprus to fill the dams. The average amount of water in the dams in the northern part of Cyprus is 23.6 per cent. This rate was 27.1 per cent in October 2013. The “waterworks department” made a warning about drought.

According to the news report by Ceren Özbil in Havadis newspaper, only three of the 18 dams in the northern part of Cyprus are filled at least 70 per cent.

The Geçitkale Eğridere Dam in (... "Occupied ... ) Lefkoniko, which has a capacity of 1 million 360 thousand 510 cubic meters is completely empty. The lack of rainfall also affected the water wells, increasing their salinity.

Taner Turgay Hoşsöz, “director of waterworks department” stated that the water levels in dams have never been this low since 2003 and warned that the country may be faced with drought in the coming months. ... "

http://www.lemoncy.eu/news_detail.php?Vid=630

(For comparison... the dams in the Free Areas of the Republic are at an average of about 51% capacity.)

[bill cobbett]

News from Zaman today on the effect of the drought on the wheat harvest in Turkey...

"... Turkey's wheat harvest is expected to drop by 14.3 percent this year due to a serious threat of further drought, according to a recent report prepared by the Turkish Union of Agricultural Chambers (TZOB).

According to the TZOB "Risk Expectation Report on Drought," it's likely that the low rainfall seen in the September 2013-February 2014 period will pull the wheat crop yield to below 19 metric tons in 2014. One of Europe's largest wheat producers, Turkey harvested a record 22.1 metric tons in 2013, according to the Turkish Statistics Institute (TurkStat). ..."

More at... http://www.todayszaman.com/news-341077- ... ought.html

[bill cobbett]

Water is so, so important.

Below is a 10 year-old report on the condition of the Western Mesaoria Aquifer. The most recent easily found report on the net. The situation described below will have deteriorated significantly, particularly in view of this past dry winter.

The Western (Upper) Mesaoria Aquifer is one of the most important on CY. It supplies not only Occupied Morphou and environs with water but also and very significantly, Occupied Famagusta and the Occupied Part of Nicosia.

Its presence is why there are such extensive areas of citrus orchards in the area. In the area of Occupied Morphou it comprises a layer of a whopping depth of 150m of water storing rocks.

Over-abstraction was a problem before '74 and it's a problem that has been made worse since.

This from http://www.cyprusgeology.org/english/4_3_1_aquifers.htm

"... The Western Mesaoria Upper Aquifer is the most important aquifer, not only in the area of Western Mesaoria but also in the whole of Cyprus. It has an area of about 400 km2 and a thickness that increases from about 20 m at Kokkinotrimithia near its eastern boundary to 150 m at Morphou in the west. It has been classified as a first class aquifer. Over its larger part it can be subdivided into two subaquifers, a phreatic one on top and a confined one below, separated by an extensive layer of marls. It consists of gravels, sands and calcareous sandstones of littoral and continental origin with intercalations of silt and clay layers. The base of the aquifer consists of Pliocene (Nicosia) marls and has the shape of a bowl tilted towards Morphou Bay where the aquifer discharges into the sea. The main source of replenishment of the Upper Aquifer is water from the rivers traversing the area. The average annual replenishment is of the order of 60 million m3. Before 1974, groundwater abstraction was of the order of 80 million m3, which showed that the aquifer was overpumped. As a result groundwater levels fell considerably, borehole yields were reduced drastically and seawater intrusion occurred along the coastal areas of Morphou Bay.

The north Nicosia–Famagusta water supply boreholes are located on the coastal site of the aquifer and are under threat by the first grade sea-water intrusion.

The water levels of the inner part of the aquifer are 50 m below sea level. The yields of many boreholes, especially in the period 1990 to 2001, dropped by 50-75%.

Seawater intrusion along the riverbeds of Morphou reached 5–6 km in length. Inland from the mouth of the Elea River, especially around Kasivera, seawater intrusion reached 2–3 km in length. From this, the owners of the citrus plants in Kasivera pumped their irrigation water from the boreholes near Angolemi as well as from the Elea riverbed aquifer.. ... "