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Greece: see the dark history

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Postby bg_turk » Sun Oct 30, 2005 5:06 pm

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From Library Journal
One rarely encounters a scholarly book as disturbing as this provocative work, a study of ethnicity in the Greek province of Macedonia. It is so controversial that Cambridge University Press, fearing for the safety of its staff in Greece, refused to publish it. Having spent some time with villagers of the region, Karakasidou (anthropology, Queens Coll., CUNY) maintains that Macedonia is not exclusively Greek, as nationalists claim, but is instead a multiethnic, multicultural region experiencing the political and religious upheavals engulfing the rest of the Balkans. Karakasidou's obsession with the truth has brought her death threats, apparently from outraged Greeks. Her powerfully written book is a resounding statement of human courage, reminding readers that there is no substitute for honesty and critical thought. This superb book is highly recommended for all large social science collections.?John Xanthopoulos, Art Inst. of Fort Lauderdale, Fla.
Copyright 1997 Reed Business Information, Inc.

Book Description


Deftly combining archival sources with evocative life histories, Anastasia Karakasidou brings welcome clarity to the contentious debate over ethnic identities and nationalist ideologies in Greek Macedonia. Her vivid and detailed account demonstrates that contrary to official rhetoric, the current people of Greek Macedonia ultimately derive from profoundly diverse ethnic and cultural backgrounds. Throughout the last century, a succession of regional and world conflicts, economic migrations, and shifting state formations has engendered an intricate pattern of population movements and refugee resettlements across the region. Unraveling the complex social, political, and economic processes through which these disparate peoples have become culturally amalgamated within an overarchingly Greek national identity, this book provides an important corrective to the Macedonian picture and an insightful analysis of the often volatile conjunction of ethnicities and nationalisms in the twentieth century.

"Combining the thoughtful use of theory with a vivid historical ethnography, this is an important, courageous, and pioneering work which opens up the whole issue of nation-building in northern Greece."--Mark Mazower, University of Sussex
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Postby sophisticatedbeggar » Sun Oct 30, 2005 5:15 pm

bg_turk wrote:I owe no land in Turkey, but one generation back my relatives used to own land and grow tobacco on what is now called Greece.


I'm afraid this doesn't mean anything bg_turk. You keep making the mistake of thinking that only one side is hurt and strangely enough this is always the turkish side...

Talking as the grandchild of refugees I often find your comments uncalled for and partial (for lack of a better word)...

My great grandfather used to own land, a house and a restaurant in Constantinople/Istanbul just like thousand other Greeks... But my family was forced to leave their homeland with hardly anything and return to Greece. And a Turk occupied their land, took over their house and shop...

Should I hold a grudge against this particular Turk or worse all Turks like you do with us Greeks? Well, I don't and I don't see the reason why I should complain... Surely, I would love to be able to have my property and family in Poli and be able to visit but what done is done and you can't change history or turn back time...

But you complain about things like this and in a way I get the impression that me personally and every other Greek or Greek Cypriot here or anywhere in the world should feel guilty and be held responsible for your loss of property/land...

Well, if it makes any difference I apologise for your loss but can hardly do anything (if it makes you feel better may I add that neither I have property in Northern Greece?)...

PS Not all us Greeks have a SBC (Superiority Balkan Complex)... In fact if you ask me I suffer from serious and chronic IEUC (Inferiority EU Complex) being citizen of the most underachieving EU country (financially speaking)... I don't look down on any of the other Balkan countries and what's more I feel threatened (FINANCIALLY speaking) by all of them (mostly on the tourist domain which used to be our "high" point)...
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Postby bg_turk » Sun Oct 30, 2005 5:50 pm

sophisticatedbeggar wrote:I'm afraid this doesn't mean anything bg_turk. You keep making the mistake of thinking that only one side is hurt and strangely enough this is always the turkish side...

Talking as the grandchild of refugees I often find your comments uncalled for and partial (for lack of a better word)...

My great grandfather used to own land, a house and a restaurant in Constantinople/Istanbul just like thousand other Greeks... But my family was forced to leave their homeland with hardly anything and return to Greece. And a Turk occupied their land, took over their house and shop...


I understand you sophisticatedbeggar, and if it were in my power I would restore your grandfathers property in Istanbul.

Should I hold a grudge against this particular Turk or worse all Turks like you do with us Greeks? Well, I don't and I don't see the reason why I should complain... Surely, I would love to be able to have my property and family in Poli and be able to visit but what done is done and you can't change history or turn back time...

But you complain about things like this and in a way I get the impression that me personally and every other Greek or Greek Cypriot here or anywhere in the world should feel guilty and be held responsible for your loss of property/land...


As I said I do not hate greeks, or the greeks that occupy the property that my relatives had in the south (Dedeagac, i think it is called Alexandropolis now). I am ready to forgive the greek state for its attitude in the past for a peaceful future, were it not the case that this state still continues its policy of assimilation against slavs and turks in the north and hostile attitude towards the RoM. I do not seek properties or anything like that back, I simply seek to know the truth.

Well, if it makes any difference I apologise for your loss but can hardly do anything (if it makes you feel better may I add that neither I have property in Northern Greece?)...

PS Not all us Greeks have a SBC (Superiority Balkan Complex)... In fact if you ask me I suffer from serious and chronic IEUC (Inferiority EU Complex) being citizen of the most underachieving EU country (financially speaking)... I don't look down on any of the other Balkan countries and what's more I feel threatened (FINANCIALLY speaking) by all of them (mostly on the tourist domain which used to be our "high" point)...


Thank you for your words sophisticatedbeggar, you cannot understand how much your words mean to me. I would like to appologize as well if I have offended you in any way. I respect the sovergnity and the territorial integrity of Greece, I in no way seek revenge, I just want us all to know about what happened before, and never to repeat our mistakes again. We should forgive each other, but never forget what happened, so that our grandchildren do not repeat the mistakes of our grandfathers.
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Postby Nicko » Tue Nov 01, 2005 10:49 am

Let's get to the point, all this bickering will get us nowhere!!

I think the two should have an all out major war, untill the bitter end, with no outside involvement.
I think that will get the hatred off a few chests!!
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