Cyprus-Forum.com

[GreekIslandGirl]

If you want to call the ancient Greeks that colonised Cyprus, Asia Minor, Greece, Italy up to France the term "settlers" - that's fine. The reality is they humanised mostly barren lands and set up civilisations for the first time. Bringing arts, culture, sciences, mathematics, engineering, democracy etc etc etc. More accurately they were very early, 'primitive' pioneers. As such, they "settled" the lands, making them more habitable, before anyone else. The Turks are trying to undo what the Greeks have done or take over ready-made civilisations, with nothing to offer. Can you not see the difference?

On many occasions you were given a chronology of CIVILISAIONS that occupied and "made habitable" Cyprus, long before the name "Greek" appeared on the map! What nonsense you are manufacturing woman?

Yes, your 'chronology' - full of errors and insignificances. At some point Romans came to Britain. Stayed a few centuries (like Turks) and left (as Turks signed they would ). Does Italy rule the UK now? Are there some Romans dotted around declaring community rights?

The difference being, the Greeks came and they stayed and cooperated with whatever few 'natives' (already highly related as tribes to mainlanders) there were who readily co-operated back and together made Cyprus as worthy a Greek island as any other.

Oh, go and play with your model aeroplanes or something.

[DrCyprus]

Enough with ignorant Greek and Turkish propaganda bullshit. Here's what really happened. I'll make it as simple as possible, and I hope both sides can reason with me now. I will provide sources if requested.

1. Cyprus before the Persian conquest was pretty much a bunch of mostly Greek colonies (there were some phoenician e.t.c colonies as well).

2. Alexander the Great eventually took the island from the Persians along with pretty much everything else. THIS IS THE BEGINNING OF THE HELLENISTIC PERIOD IN CYPRUS. At this point most other populaces who lived in Cyprus at the time are either assimilated, ousted or plainly killed.
2b. Whether or not Alexander the Great was actually ethnically ancient Greek or not has nothing to do with anything because he was in effect an emissary of Greek culture.

3. Alexander the Great dies and his generals take his place. Throughout this time, and given the fact that the island had already had around 10 Greek colonies and lots of Greeks living there... is effectively HELLENISED.

4. Romans take over the island. Some Romans come and settle in the island. The Roman empire is eventually divided into two and Cyprus becomes part of the Eastern Roman Empire.

5. Christianity becomes the dominant religion of the Eastern Roman Empire which is renamed to Byzantine empire. At that point in history the people of Cyprus were just called Cypriots and were just subjects of the Eastern Roman/ Byzantine empire. The Greek language eventually substitutes Latin as the dominant language just because it was more convenient for the people at the time.

6. Cyprus is ransacked and conquered by Richard the Lionheart, and effectively becomes a western european crusader outpost... then eventually comes under venetian rule. The Cypriot people keep speaking and writing in Greek.

7. In 1571 the Ottomans oust the Venetians and take over Cyprus. The people of Cyprus are now called 'rayah, christians, romans(rum)' and they keep communicating with each other in Greek.

8. After a few centuries these Romans(rum) or Ionians(yunan) are fighting for their independence all over the Ottoman empire. When some Turkish military official asked Athanasios Diakos to become a Turk he replied: 'I was born a Roman and I will die one' and was then promptly executed. Eventually, there is a meeting where these Greek speaking people decide to call themselves Greeks instead of Romans.

9. Cyprus is eventually forked over to the British empire. This is a significant point in Cypriot history because it differentiates Cyprus from almost all other ex-ottoman territories. When most other ex-ottoman territories left the Ottoman empire there were massive massacres and/or deportations and population exchanges between the Turkish and the other nations (Greek, Bulgarian, Serbian, Armenian e.t.c). For example there used to be Ethnic Turks who used to live in what is now mainland Greece and vice versa, this is pretty recent history guys.

9a. The British were there for business as usual, they didn't really give a single shit about Ottomans or their former Grecoroman/Byzantine subservients. The island was now neither the property of the Ottoman empire nor of the Kingdom of Greece. The British just arbitrarily named the greek speaking majority 'Greek Cypriots' and the Turkish speaking minority 'Turkish Cypriots'. If they felt like it they could have named Greek Cypriots Byzantines and Turkish Cypriots Ottomans. British terminology aside, both populaces are native Cypriots who shared the island for several centuries one way or another.

10. Cyprus gains its independence. Atrocities ensue... everyone hates each other and noone wins.

10a. Greek and Turkish Cypriots get shitty misinforming history books in their schools and random crazy religious figures tell them how Allah/Christ is manning their tanks against the Greeks/Turks and some western European weapon manufacturer makes money.

At this point, I actually wrote a poem about it. Enjoy.

A short story of two brothers
-----------------------------------

Here are two brothers who use to live together.
They put a wall between them,
and gave them different clothes, and books and flags.
Here are two brothers who use to sing and dance together.
They told them they were different,
and the two brothers became afraid of each other.
The two brothers fought and killed each other...
Some say they were born to be enemies.

Can the two brothers look each other into the eye and apologise?
Mix the red and blue and create one purple flag?
or
should they just seperate forever?
what's best for them? what's easiest?

[repulsewarrior]

...welcome, DrC.

nice, poetry.

...indeed, in my village, they called us "mixed". and to this day, "Greeks" and "Turks" ask me, how we could have lived that way. we are Cypriots i say, and proud of our way of life where we sustained ourselves, and each other, as Human Beings.

...interestingly, even torn apart, this contact never ceased.

[Pyrpolizer]

Very interesting post DrCypriot and welcome to the forum
I guess those who think this topic is of any essence, are those who disagree with your point 9a that "both populaces are native Cypriots who shared the island for several centuries one way or another." For them native can be only one, and that is the oldest.

I personally don't care who is native or not, I care who has rights here and who doesn't. And certainly both the Greek and Turkish Cypriots have rights. Do you think the settlers have rights though?

I wished the situation in Cyprus were as simple as that of 2 bothers.Surely we would have a solution already. In reality the situation is that of 2 brotherly friends who became enemies with all their families behind, plus a Godfather of the two(UK) who uses both of them for his own interests.

[bill cobbett]

Very interesting post DrCypriot and welcome to the forum
I guess those who think this topic is of any essence, are those who disagree with your point 9a that "both populaces are native Cypriots who shared the island for several centuries one way or another." For them native can be only one, and that is the oldest.

I personally don't care who is native or not, I care who has rights here and who doesn't. And certainly both the Greek and Turkish Cypriots have rights. Do you think the settlers have rights though?

I wished the situation in Cyprus were as simple as that of 2 bothers.Surely we would have a solution already. In reality the situation is that of 2 brotherly friends who became enemies with all their families behind, plus a Godfather of the two(UK) who uses both of them for his own interests.

Yes, in this modern World we don't have to go back centuries, it's about the here and now according to the laws of the Republic, it's all about human rights and the bottom line is those Born in CY are CY citizens As of Right. Everyone else has to apply for citizenship to the relevant authority of the Republic... Simples...!!!

Why do we always have this nonsense of going back centuries or millenniums to make a connection with Citizenship.

[Sotos]

the bottom line is those Born in CY are CY citizens As of Right.

Are you sure that this is the law?

[yialousa1971]

Enough with ignorant Greek and Turkish propaganda bullshit. Here's what really happened. I'll make it as simple as possible, and I hope both sides can reason with me now. I will provide sources if requested.

1. Cyprus before the Persian conquest was pretty much a bunch of mostly Greek colonies (there were some phoenician e.t.c colonies as well).

2. Alexander the Great eventually took the island from the Persians along with pretty much everything else. THIS IS THE BEGINNING OF THE HELLENISTIC PERIOD IN CYPRUS. At this point most other populaces who lived in Cyprus at the time are either assimilated, ousted or plainly killed.
2b. Whether or not Alexander the Great was actually ethnically ancient Greek or not has nothing to do with anything because he was in effect an emissary of Greek culture.

3. Alexander the Great dies and his generals take his place. Throughout this time, and given the fact that the island had already had around 10 Greek colonies and lots of Greeks living there... is effectively HELLENISED.

4. Romans take over the island. Some Romans come and settle in the island. The Roman empire is eventually divided into two and Cyprus becomes part of the Eastern Roman Empire.

5. Christianity becomes the dominant religion of the Eastern Roman Empire which is renamed to Byzantine empire. At that point in history the people of Cyprus were just called Cypriots and were just subjects of the Eastern Roman/ Byzantine empire. The Greek language eventually substitutes Latin as the dominant language just because it was more convenient for the people at the time.

6. Cyprus is ransacked and conquered by Richard the Lionheart, and effectively becomes a western european crusader outpost... then eventually comes under venetian rule. The Cypriot people keep speaking and writing in Greek.

7. In 1571 the Ottomans oust the Venetians and take over Cyprus. The people of Cyprus are now called 'rayah, christians, romans(rum)' and they keep communicating with each other in Greek.

8. After a few centuries these Romans(rum) or Ionians(yunan) are fighting for their independence all over the Ottoman empire. When some Turkish military official asked Athanasios Diakos to become a Turk he replied: 'I was born a Roman and I will die one' and was then promptly executed. Eventually, there is a meeting where these Greek speaking people decide to call themselves Greeks instead of Romans.

9. Cyprus is eventually forked over to the British empire. This is a significant point in Cypriot history because it differentiates Cyprus from almost all other ex-ottoman territories. When most other ex-ottoman territories left the Ottoman empire there were massive massacres and/or deportations and population exchanges between the Turkish and the other nations (Greek, Bulgarian, Serbian, Armenian e.t.c). For example there used to be Ethnic Turks who used to live in what is now mainland Greece and vice versa, this is pretty recent history guys.

9a. The British were there for business as usual, they didn't really give a single shit about Ottomans or their former Grecoroman/Byzantine subservients. The island was now neither the property of the Ottoman empire nor of the Kingdom of Greece. The British just arbitrarily named the greek speaking majority 'Greek Cypriots' and the Turkish speaking minority 'Turkish Cypriots'. If they felt like it they could have named Greek Cypriots Byzantines and Turkish Cypriots Ottomans. British terminology aside, both populaces are native Cypriots who shared the island for several centuries one way or another.

10. Cyprus gains its independence. Atrocities ensue... everyone hates each other and noone wins.

10a. Greek and Turkish Cypriots get shitty misinforming history books in their schools and random crazy religious figures tell them how Allah/Christ is manning their tanks against the Greeks/Turks and some western European weapon manufacturer makes money.

At this point, I actually wrote a poem about it. Enjoy.

A short story of two brothers
-----------------------------------

Here are two brothers who use to live together.
They put a wall between them,
and gave them different clothes, and books and flags.
Here are two brothers who use to sing and dance together.
They told them they were different,
and the two brothers became afraid of each other.
The two brothers fought and killed each other...
Some say they were born to be enemies.

Can the two brothers look each other into the eye and apologise?
Mix the red and blue and create one purple flag?
or
should they just seperate forever?
what's best for them? what's easiest?

There is no such thing as a Turkish Cypriot! They are Turks! And the Romans where Greeks!

[repulsewarrior]

...let me guess yialousa, there is no such thing as a Sri Lankan Cypriot, only Greeks are Cypriots; is that what you're saying?

[Pyrpolizer]

the bottom line is those Born in CY are CY citizens As of Right.

Are you sure that this is the law?

I know for sure that if a woman gives birth inside a plane or ship within the territorial waters or airspace of ANY country, the child is entitled of Citizenship of that country.

[Lordo]

there are some assholes in the world. some are even more assholes than others. take your greek for instance there is more ottoman in a greek than greek. the whole region has mereged and look what assholes it created.

get a life you lowlifes.