Cyprus-Forum.com

[Viewpoint]

I am not forcing union, a lot of GC would be a lot more flexible in accepting a negotiated partition, its just the property issue and territorial adjustment that needs to be agreed upon to form the new Kibrisli Republic. just find out who owned what prior to the invasion and divide it up accordingly so that everyone more or less gets back what was taken from them at today's values. a 18% : 82% split would probably be close to the mark.

Others speak for themselves though and i still dont think that partition Cyprus is right.

I would agree with this route an independent committee could be set to listen to all property claims and decide on rights and payments or exchange. The border could also be adjusted to allow for as many refugees to return as possible eg Maras alone would mean 40.000 rights settles in one fell swoop.

[Lordo]

I am not forcing union, a lot of GC would be a lot more flexible in accepting a negotiated partition, its just the property issue and territorial adjustment that needs to be agreed upon to form the new Kibrisli Republic. just find out who owned what prior to the invasion and divide it up accordingly so that everyone more or less gets back what was taken from them at today's values. a 18% : 82% split would probably be close to the mark.

Others speak for themselves though and i still dont think that partition Cyprus is right.

i dont understand what this 18% comes from. you cant split the country up according to 1960 population figures. it is the actual property owned that counts. if you look at the maps before they were doctored by eoga, you will find private property of TCs is more like 20% and when you add to that the public land of 7% then it makes it 27%, and thats not taking into account values.

you cannot exchange donum for donum not after 50 years. you have to use values of today. you will find tcs will have the 37% and will still have land in the south. you want separation you can have it but it is not my choice by a long shot. i want to see a vote in the south as to what percentage want separation. if you get a vote of 50.1% then you can have it.

[repulsewarrior]

...sounds like scavengers picking over the remains of a dead body, once the actual pillage has been done.

so, Cyprus will be no more, in the name of its Greekness or its Turkishness, nevermind its own Humanity, that it is born from Mankind's respect for Universal Principals, that it has been at the center of social-exchange for far longer than even the Greeks, or the Turks, that they are, in these terms, a People too. of course, who are Cypriots, who represents them, what is Justice seen never mind (if they are "Greeks" and "Turks"), let's leave the hatred that destroyed us to fester in the hands of those who still profit from it. what are Cypriots, are they a mere nuisance, a bit of Modern thinking by wonks, a small threat to the status quo, what with the fact that there is a mythic relation to subjugation, as though there can be a Greece or a Turkey, but there can be no Cyprus, that as People (for the first time in thousands of years) they cannot live as Men.

....truly, if you are Cypriots, first, you will call for a Greek Constituency to negotiate with its counterparts, the other Cypriot Constituencies, not as the Republic, it should be Free to defend us as Individuals, the State, without distinction or discrimination. but as Persons each with a Distinct Identity, who seek to sustain this diversity, i too have no doubt, if this was the case, that good thinking people can agree in a manner where they could present, with their unanimous consent, a path the Republic may take (Bizonally) in granting the Liberty they seek.

my manifesto, oh yes, you should read it.

[Viewpoint]

respulse you still dont get it do you, there is no island wide Cypriotism, there is no union and we have lived apart to long to want to live together once again, neither side trusts the other and neither side want to be ruled or dominated by the other. A solution to compbat all these issues does not exsist when will you accept this fact reality, only then will you start to make sense otherwise you are never going to make sense.

[Maximus]

at the end of the day though, any negotiated partition will be to Turkeys benefit and that is not acceptable. Turkey cannot be trusted and her advances in to Cyprus are best not cemented. Her actions and behaviour must be repudiated, she will just have a new border to violate in the future.

Cyprus is sovereign and her territorial integrity must be respected and not udnermined by a foreign peoples.

[Viewpoint]

at the end of the day though, any negotiated partition will be to Turkeys benefit and that is not acceptable. Turkey cannot be trusted and her advances in to Cyprus are best not cemented. Her actions and behaviour must be repudiated, she will just have a new border to violate in the future.

Cyprus is sovereign and her territorial integrity must be respected and not udnermined by a foreign peoples.

You said you would not force union have you reneged yet again? the border has been in place for 38 years and Turkey has not violated it, so that argument falls flat.

[Maximus]

I am not forcing union but I also do not think partition is right, as I previously mentioned. The border you mention is actually a UN buffer zone and it is only there because Turkey illegally invaded, ethnically cleansed the northern third of the island displaced the natives and is undermining Cyprus's soverign integrity with a Greek vs Turkish argument. This argument also falls flat on its face also becuase a Turkish republic legally exists with defined borders under international law. not in Cyprus.

Cyprus is not Turkey and the Turkish Cypriots are vanishing, so it is not in Cyprus's best interest to recognise a Turkish state on its terriroty, becuase that is what it will be. Even if the status quo remains, Turkeys behavior can not be recognised, it must be repudiated.

[Kikapu]

I am not forcing union, a lot of GC would be a lot more flexible in accepting a negotiated partition, its just the property issue and territorial adjustment that needs to be agreed upon to form the new Kibrisli Republic. just find out who owned what prior to the invasion and divide it up accordingly so that everyone more or less gets back what was taken from them at today's values. a 18% : 82% split would probably be close to the mark.

Others speak for themselves though and i still dont think that partition Cyprus is right.

i dont understand what this 18% comes from. you cant split the country up according to 1960 population figures. it is the actual property owned that counts. if you look at the maps before they were doctored by eoga, you will find private property of TCs is more like 20% and when you add to that the public land of 7% then it makes it 27%, and thats not taking into account values.

you cannot exchange donum for donum not after 50 years. you have to use values of today. you will find tcs will have the 37% and will still have land in the south. you want separation you can have it but it is not my choice by a long shot. i want to see a vote in the south as to what percentage want separation. if you get a vote of 50.1% then you can have it.

you cannot exchange donum for donum not after 50 years. you have to use values of today.

Lordo, can you then tell me why is it that all those TCs who foolishly converted their land in the south into a points system in the north and signed away their ownership of their land to the "trnc" authorities for receiving in return either stolen GC properties or sold their points at much lower values. If I'm not mistaken, when one sells their points today in the north, points they have received against the values of their land in the south, they are only getting pennies on the dollar. So, why are the TCs with points in their hands are not getting the actual today's worth of their properties left in the south when selling their points?

[Lordo]

I am not forcing union, a lot of GC would be a lot more flexible in accepting a negotiated partition, its just the property issue and territorial adjustment that needs to be agreed upon to form the new Kibrisli Republic. just find out who owned what prior to the invasion and divide it up accordingly so that everyone more or less gets back what was taken from them at today's values. a 18% : 82% split would probably be close to the mark.

Others speak for themselves though and i still dont think that partition Cyprus is right.

i dont understand what this 18% comes from. you cant split the country up according to 1960 population figures. it is the actual property owned that counts. if you look at the maps before they were doctored by eoga, you will find private property of TCs is more like 20% and when you add to that the public land of 7% then it makes it 27%, and thats not taking into account values.

you cannot exchange donum for donum not after 50 years. you have to use values of today. you will find tcs will have the 37% and will still have land in the south. you want separation you can have it but it is not my choice by a long shot. i want to see a vote in the south as to what percentage want separation. if you get a vote of 50.1% then you can have it.

you cannot exchange donum for donum not after 50 years. you have to use values of today.

Lordo, can you then tell me why is it that all those TCs who foolishly converted their land in the south into a points system in the north and signed away their ownership of their land to the "trnc" authorities for receiving in return either stolen GC properties or sold their points at much lower values. If I'm not mistaken, when one sells their points today in the north, points they have received against the values of their land in the south, they are only getting pennies on the dollar. So, why are the TCs with points in their hands are not getting the actual today's worth of their properties left in the south when selling their points?

no idea my friend. may i suggest find one who is in that predicament and ask.

[Kikapu]

I am not forcing union, a lot of GC would be a lot more flexible in accepting a negotiated partition, its just the property issue and territorial adjustment that needs to be agreed upon to form the new Kibrisli Republic. just find out who owned what prior to the invasion and divide it up accordingly so that everyone more or less gets back what was taken from them at today's values. a 18% : 82% split would probably be close to the mark.

Others speak for themselves though and i still dont think that partition Cyprus is right.

i dont understand what this 18% comes from. you cant split the country up according to 1960 population figures. it is the actual property owned that counts. if you look at the maps before they were doctored by eoga, you will find private property of TCs is more like 20% and when you add to that the public land of 7% then it makes it 27%, and thats not taking into account values.

you cannot exchange donum for donum not after 50 years. you have to use values of today. you will find tcs will have the 37% and will still have land in the south. you want separation you can have it but it is not my choice by a long shot. i want to see a vote in the south as to what percentage want separation. if you get a vote of 50.1% then you can have it.

you cannot exchange donum for donum not after 50 years. you have to use values of today.

Lordo, can you then tell me why is it that all those TCs who foolishly converted their land in the south into a points system in the north and signed away their ownership of their land to the "trnc" authorities for receiving in return either stolen GC properties or sold their points at much lower values. If I'm not mistaken, when one sells their points today in the north, points they have received against the values of their land in the south, they are only getting pennies on the dollar. So, why are the TCs with points in their hands are not getting the actual today's worth of their properties left in the south when selling their points?

no idea my friend. may i suggest find one who is in that predicament and ask.

The point is, many TCs who where tricked into signing away their properties in the south for this point system, not all received any stolen GC properties in the north. They instead held their points which one can sell if they want to to some agents at much lower values than what their properties are worth in the south today. So the question is, how can you put today's value on TCs properties in the south (I'm glad that you do btw), but when it comes for the TCs to sell their points in the north against their properties in the south, they get only pennies on the Dollar for it. Isn't the RoC going to tell the "trnc", "we'll use the same valuation on the TCs properties for exchange for the GC ones as the valuations you are using when it comes to selling the points by the TCs".