Cyprus-Forum.com

[Me Ed]

Big Oz,

the Kurdish question exposes the hypocracy of Turkey in relation to Cyprus.

You say "there will never be any Kurdistan inside Turkish borders ever!" yet Turkey advocates the recognition of a Turkish Republic in Cypriot borders.

You bemoan an influx of Kurds into Turkey from Syria, but it's OK to import tens of thousands of Turks into Cyprus.

Why shouldn't Turkey consider establishing a Kurdish state and then peaceful independence?

After all the Kurds didn't ethnically cleanse their lands from anyone else and it will bring peace in the region.

[bigOz]

Big Oz,

the Kurdish question exposes the hypocracy of Turkey in relation to Cyprus.

You say "there will never be any Kurdistan inside Turkish borders ever!" yet Turkey advocates the recognition of a Turkish Republic in Cypriot borders.

You bemoan an influx of Kurds into Turkey from Syria, but it's OK to import tens of thousands of Turks into Cyprus.

Why shouldn't Turkey consider establishing a Kurdish state and then peaceful independence?

After all the Kurds didn't ethnically cleanse their lands from anyone else and it will bring peace in the region.

This is really getting boring! I wish people would bother to understand the theme of any post before drawing up wrong conclusions assisted by meaningless remarks. No offence "Me Ed" but you are clearly holdingthe wrong end of the stick;

Kurdish problem and Cyrpus problrm has nothing in common - historically, by nature, or otherwise. As I said before, if vermin was the enemy of Turks, some Greeks would be allies with the vermin. The reality is NO ONE gives a toss what the Greeks or GCs think or feel about the Kurds. Trust me, the feelings of GCs on the subject has no bearing or effect on Turkey's stance with the Kurds. You want to waste your time - be my guest. the Kurds buy more arams and ammo

Turkey and TCs advocate recognition of TRNC as an optional solution, since the GCs are yet to accept TCs as partners in the torn apart so called "Republic". TCs want a solution, and they want to be Cypriots first in their own country - if only given the chance by the GCs. But the "Greek island" mentality and the existence of EOKA-B symphatisers to this day is getting us nowhere. Hence the alternative TRNC - which even the GCs should be happy about because if recognised it will be separate republic than Turkey. As Things are, you actually have borders with Turkey herself and staring down the barrel of a gun! A WORD OF WARNING - another round of unsuccessful talks between the sides and the UN is very likely to start proposing alternative measures, that will definitely include recognition of the TRNC as well! If not that then the lifting of trade embargoes will definitely be on the cards! Restricting travel and trading rights of TCs (who are recognided inhabitants of the island) would also be against the "human rights" that everyone keeps refering to! Why should I travel to my country via Istanbul and not direct. GCs have a share in THY or what?

Who stopped the influx of Kurds from anywhere in the Middle East? What are you talking about. At the moment Turkey is catering for around 150,000 refugees at great expense - probably enough to save your miserable economy at this time. What is NOT OK is what had happened many times before at even larger scales from Iraq. That is most of the Kurdish refugees deciding not to leave the comforts of Turkey and integrating into the local communities. That would also be OK, if only a decade or two later they would not start claiming the land they occupied as guests to be Kurdistan (the borders of which never existed in any historic records or findings).

I do not see the analogy of that with TCs and GCs in yprus. Were we welcome by the GCs when we escaped a war many years ago and overstayed our welcome? Yes Cyprus was captured by Ottomans and it WAS a Turkish ruled island for 300 years. This was after a war and is how all worlds populations and countries became what they were. Do you think all ethnic English should go back to UK because they came to Australia conquering land belonging to whoever? By your resoning their existence should not be recognised! In any case, Ottomans captured the island 450 years ago from the VENETIANS - I do not remember the island being a Greek one at the time! In fact, had it not been for the Ottoman invasion, the Catholic Church was doing a good job of clearing out the Greek Orthodox Church and Greeks (as its followers) at that time.

Tens of thousands of Turks have been flooing Cyprus and I tell you not to be so optimistic because they are infact well over 150,000 at this time. And how did they manage to do that? Would it have been possible if we had a recognised Federal State in the North belonging to Cyprus Republic, run buy Cyprus laws and immigration rules? Start working some of those cells in your cranium and look deeper who is to blame rather than the TCs. You made your own nest - now lie in it!

What is it to YOU whether Turkey recognises a Kurdish state in South East, or Greece accepts a Macedonian state declare its independence? There was never a Kurdish country in that part of Turkey. Are you saying because majority of the population in the area are Kurds give them an independent state. OK, in that case lets give the Turks who are the occupants of Trakya in North East Greece their own independent state. God knows they do deserve one after all the opression and ethnic cleansing efforts by successive Greek governments in the past!

Kurds bring peace to the region??? It would have if it was really a Kurdish problem BUT you need to understand that this is a much more complicated case of an international conspiracy to destroy Turkeys economic and military power - and Turks are aware of it just like most local Kurds!

[Jerry]

How comical that some idiots in this forum can even quote from Wikipedia that the Annan plan was illegal and non-starter - correct me but ANNAN PLAN was a plan put forward by a UN secretary was it not!

Idiot yourself, just because a politician/diplomat holds high office does not mean he is above bending the rules to suit his chums. If you bothered to read the links it would be clear to you that the AP was not in accord with the UN's own conventions. But like most of your kind you believe in "might is right" rather than the rule of law. Cyprus has, since colonial days, been shat on from a great high to accommodate the whims of the neo-ottomans, it's time international law was applied to the Cyprus problem.


Read it again, put your brain into gear and try and understand its implications. Note the source of the last paragraph.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Annan_Plan_for_Cyprus
Against the plan "I consider the Annan plan to be fundamentally flawed. To put it in common language I consider that plan to be a non-starter. It is so incompatible with international law and international human rights norms that it is nothing less than shocking that the organisation would bend to political pressure and political interest on the part of my country of nationality [the USA] and Great Britain, in order to cater for the interests of a NATO partner....

"... had he [Annan] been more closely involved in the details, [he] would not have wished his name to be historically associated with such departures from international law and human rights standards. ...a significant opportunity to reach an agreed settlement was lost as a result of the conduct of the UN Secretariat, advised by the USA and the UK....

"The final version of the plan isn’t a package on which the parties ever agreed. It is a mass of coercions written by aides to the UN secretary- general saying, ‘this meets you halfway’ and then communicated to the parties. Secondly, there’s no precedent in international law of bringing such a blueprint to a referendum. A referendum should be based on a definite text prepared by an authority, or it should be a text on which the parties are agreed so that the people know that the agreement will be accepted if they vote in its favor. None of these conditions now exists. The UN General Secretariat, whose authority is controversial, exercised its ‘goodwill mission’ [good offices mission] granted by the Security Council and made the parties accept it through threats and deception. The text is devoid of compromise. Thirdly, setting aside judicial disagreements on various issues, this ‘map of zones’ is a map being presented to those who’ll live there without any discussion." Mumtaz Soysal in "Mistakes and Deception", Cumhuriyet,2 April 2004

[Me Ed]

Big Oz,

I agree with you on two points.

Yes, I don't really concern myself about the Kurds as we Cypriots have are own issue to deal with, but I am concerned about the blatant hypocrisy of the country, namely Turkey, in the middle of both these issues.

An secondly, you are correct that the Kurdish issue has little in common with the Cyprus problem, the case for an autonomous or independent Kurdish state is far more clear cut than that of a TC state.

[mouflonrouge]

Yes I would have to agree. The Kurds actually have a valid claim.

[FragnaticDeath]

bigOZ is on a propaganda streak. You have been countless proven wrong with actual facts and yet you come back and reply with "This is really getting boring! I wish people would bother to understand the theme of any post before drawing up wrong conclusions assisted by meaningless remarks." This are the answers of people not actually trying to understand what someone tells them, but to disregard it and continue to pursue a false claim.

So keep the show coming by making a fool out of yourself and what a hypocrite person you are.

[Maximus]

bigOZ is on a propaganda streak. You have been countless proven wrong with actual facts and yet you come back and reply with "This is really getting boring! I wish people would bother to understand the theme of any post before drawing up wrong conclusions assisted by meaningless remarks." This are the answers of people not actually trying to understand what someone tells them, but to disregard it and continue to pursue a false claim.

So keep the show coming by making a fool out of yourself and what a hypocrite person you are.

That is all it is, propoganda, you cant take anything coming from the Turkish side or the Turkish Cypriots seriously. They tell lies, just lies I tell you. There is no place for them to have any kind of power or sharing with such a malicious and harmful ideology. When dealing with them, a whole world reality is under question and they try to empose a hypocritical, false and much weaker one onto you and dont acecpt it when you dont believe them.

They are dangerous to themselves, everyone else and Cyprus's well being. The message I get is that as a whole, they are radical fanatics, with egos far too fragile and they cant be wrong under any circumstances, even if they must lie, cheat and steal. The Republic can do without this, indefinately.

[potassium]

Maximus! Do you really think the position of Pakistanis in UK and the TCs in Cyprus are the same When was the whole of Cyprus ever recognised as a GREEK island? What makes Greeks the masters and the Turks immigrants like Pakistanis in UK?

Since the Hellenization of the island from the Myceneans. (1000+ BC, fact)

Greeks the masters and the Turks immigrants like Pakistanis in UK?

Because just like in the UK, the Turks migrated to Cyprus.

[potassium]

bigOZ is on a propaganda streak. You have been countless proven wrong with actual facts and yet you come back and reply with "This is really getting boring! I wish people would bother to understand the theme of any post before drawing up wrong conclusions assisted by meaningless remarks." This are the answers of people not actually trying to understand what someone tells them, but to disregard it and continue to pursue a false claim.

So keep the show coming by making a fool out of yourself and what a hypocrite person you are.

It's not his fault he lives in a "democratic nation" de facto dictatorship. Even though if you do not take into account bigOZ's behavior and brainwashed ideologies, Turkish people are nice when they are not as close-minded as bigOZ.

[Maximus]

It's not his fault he lives in a "democratic nation" de facto dictatorship. Even though if you do not take into account bigOZ's behavior and brainwashed ideologies, Turkish people are nice when they are not as close-minded as bigOZ.

This is true, for as long as Cyprus and Greeks are not the topic of conversation, but I have found that the majority of them talk a load of sh*t the majority of the time too, no matter what the topic.