Cyprus-Forum.com

[Pyrpolizer]

one of the issues is that I, along with the rest of the world do not recognise what you are saying, noone recognises your version of history. there is too much hypocrisy and falshood and a complete misunderstanding of definitons and law for me. its all just a fabrication of history and what is proper in todays civilized, modern and progressive world. Cyprus is having to deal with Turkishness here.

Honestly VP, I do not mean to insult or cause offence but listening to the Turkish side of the story is like trying to communicate and correct a person who has borderline personality disorder or dimensia with criminal tendancies. This is not an equal partner for a sane and law abiding person, bless.

what i do know though, is that Turks and Turkish cypriots who champion the ideology of the Turk-Rauf-Niet-Cyprus will find their peace if they completely remove themselves from the situation and go back to Turkey, to live as the majority in their legally recognised Turkish state. The same will be true for Cypriots and Cyprus. Each party will find their peace and then be able to look forward to more cooperative and mutually beneficial relations.

The feeling is mutual and we view your side as being uncompromising, arrogant, despot, bloody minded and not really interested in find a solution as they have what they want a recognized GC state, why is it you have difficulty understanding that we are not going anywhere we belong here on this island and have just as much right to it as you do. Maybe if you understand this basic fact then you may progess to understanding that we are your equal partners, internationally recognized agreements which you have signed and try to renege on will not go away just because you no longer like them. We are fully aware you want to throw our rights out of the window therefore allowing you the freedom to control and dominate the whole island forcing us from partnership status to a minority in a GC state.

We want a 2 state Federal solution where each citizen has the right to settle in which ever state they choose, we do not believe in forcing one to live under the administration of the other as you do, we believe all refugees should get closure on the properties return where physical possible, compensation or alternative offers of TC properties in the south. We think all armies should depart and that new settlers less than eg 10 years should not be given citizenship of the New Cyprus....why are you so opposed to what we believe in?

LOL almost none of those things is acceptable to your leadership and if some are, they are not acceptable by Turkey, and if what concerns the settlers is,it is not acceptable by the settlers to whom you gave voting rights. So how do you expect to get a solution let aside passing it to public voting?
I told you your leadership has worked hard to make SOLUTION IMPOSSIBLE. This is where we are today.

[Maximus]

Forget you VP, you have issues related to comprehension.

the RoC has been provided this social service for FREE to the TC's all this time. This mistake is now being corrected and reversed, so why dont you now offer to pay and contribute to the service (like the GC's and other citizens) in order to be entitled to recieve it?

you cant take anything to court, it's a fraudulent claim of a parasitic nature.

[Viewpoint]

So what we gather from your posts Pyro is that the "RoC" does not represent the TCs yet continues to reap the rewards of milking recognition which also belongs to the TCs. What you are stating in fact is a revelation of the truth that a GC administration cannot represent the TCs but they need to stop lieing to the world and own up to this fact, but we all know they cannot do this as recognition would automatically follow. If the "RoC" expose their hand by discrimination amongst her own citizens by removing the equal criteria for obtaining healthcare in the south will go a long way to reconfirming and strengthening the TCs claims that we are 2 separate peoples with 2 states and should be recognized as such.

You have to get your facts straight VP. I am not going to repeat the same things 100 times.

Which part of the above statement is not straight? the bottom line is that the TCs and the north are part of the "RoC" when it benefits the GCs, its ime to understand that you cannot force a marriage and that people can have a better life living separately.

Jesus VP, one has to write a whole book to straighten things up each and every time he talks to you just to be able to continue writing one simple line.
OK I will try for the last time:

a)The Kibrislis hold RoC citizenship. They also hold pseudo-state citizenship which the RoC could easily declare a civilian offense/crime but because of the peculiar circumstances in the occupied she just turns a blind eye.
b)The Kibrislis don't live in the Government control areas, don't pay any taxes, no social insurance nothing, hence the RoC is not obliged to offer them any financial returns that derive from the rights of people who live in the Government controlled areas.
c)The majority of them hold illegal tittle deeds of Kypreoi's stolen properties, have sold stolen properties etc etc which the RoC could easily declare a criminal offense but once again because of the peculiar circumstances in the occupied she just turns a blind eye.
d)The Kibrislis living in the occupied support the illegal Turkish presence and occupation, support the illegal pseudostate by majority voting.
e)Again by majority voting they reject the RoC representation and handle all those rights to Turkey.

Hence my dear whatever free med care the RoC was providing to the Kibrislis living in the occupied until now, was just out of good will.It can cut it off anytime, and trust me absolutely nobody will complain, let aside sue the RoC.

In other words the Kibrislis living in the occupied are as much part of the RoC as those Cypriots who live in Australia.

So TCs living in the north are classed as expats although they live in Cyprus as citizens which the "RoC" claims to represent, as for the rest of your post which really revolves around who put the TCs in this position, well its only right that the "RoC" administration came clean and owned up to messing things up in 1963 to 1974.

Pyro we all know this "new law" is an excuse to try and pressurise the TCs, well for me personally I dont give a fig and would rather get treatment in Turkey UK or USA than travel south but the negative response from not only the TCs but the world in general will not work in your favour as you will yet again be classed as the bad guys when you turn an elderly TC away which results in their death...goodluck you need it.

[Viewpoint]

one of the issues is that I, along with the rest of the world do not recognise what you are saying, noone recognises your version of history. there is too much hypocrisy and falshood and a complete misunderstanding of definitons and law for me. its all just a fabrication of history and what is proper in todays civilized, modern and progressive world. Cyprus is having to deal with Turkishness here.

Honestly VP, I do not mean to insult or cause offence but listening to the Turkish side of the story is like trying to communicate and correct a person who has borderline personality disorder or dimensia with criminal tendancies. This is not an equal partner for a sane and law abiding person, bless.

what i do know though, is that Turks and Turkish cypriots who champion the ideology of the Turk-Rauf-Niet-Cyprus will find their peace if they completely remove themselves from the situation and go back to Turkey, to live as the majority in their legally recognised Turkish state. The same will be true for Cypriots and Cyprus. Each party will find their peace and then be able to look forward to more cooperative and mutually beneficial relations.

The feeling is mutual and we view your side as being uncompromising, arrogant, despot, bloody minded and not really interested in find a solution as they have what they want a recognized GC state, why is it you have difficulty understanding that we are not going anywhere we belong here on this island and have just as much right to it as you do. Maybe if you understand this basic fact then you may progess to understanding that we are your equal partners, internationally recognized agreements which you have signed and try to renege on will not go away just because you no longer like them. We are fully aware you want to throw our rights out of the window therefore allowing you the freedom to control and dominate the whole island forcing us from partnership status to a minority in a GC state.

We want a 2 state Federal solution where each citizen has the right to settle in which ever state they choose, we do not believe in forcing one to live under the administration of the other as you do, we believe all refugees should get closure on the properties return where physical possible, compensation or alternative offers of TC properties in the south. We think all armies should depart and that new settlers less than eg 10 years should not be given citizenship of the New Cyprus....why are you so opposed to what we believe in?

LOL almost none of those things is acceptable to your leadership and if some are, they are not acceptable by Turkey, and if what concerns the settlers is,it is not acceptable by the settlers to whom you gave voting rights. So how do you expect to get a solution let aside passing it to public voting?
I told you your leadership has worked hard to make SOLUTION IMPOSSIBLE. This is where we are today.

Just say why you do not accept the above? and your leadership has not worked at all (papadoplstroplos) because they do not want a solution.

[Maximus]

Guys, VP is purposefully being obtuse. Either this or VP simply is obtuse.

[Viewpoint]

Guys, VP is purposefully being obtuse. Either this or VP simply is obtuse.

Obviously you have run out of valid arguments. Why do you not want what I propose?

[Me Ed]

VP,

I'll lay it out for simply you so you can see that there is no need to politicise this issue and that the RoC is following universal rules on this one and that there is no discrimination involved:

UK ex-pat represented by the UK with no social contract is entitled to a UK passport.
TC represented by the RoC with no social contract is entitled to a RoC passport.

UK ex-pat with no social contract with the UK is not entitled to free medical treatment in the UK.
TC with no social contract with the RoC is not entitled to free medical treatment in the RoC.

Also in parallel with the ex-pats, TCs have the right to re-establish their social contract with the RoC government.

Now I hope this clears this all up for you.

You forgot the most important thing Tcs are not expats they do not live aborad according to GC claims, they reside in a counttry which the "RoC" claims to represent 100%, this cannot only be in cases where it suits or benefits purely the GCs and the EU will see through this as soon as the first legal case in brought against the "RoC".

They are not ex-pats, that was done as a comparison of individuals that have given up their social contract with their government and what they are entitled to.

Due to the circumstances we find ourselves, unless a TC lives in the government controlled areas, they do not have a social contract with that government which limits what they are automatically entitled to.

The human rights afforded to TCs allows them, without prejudice, to live in the government controlled areas and therefore establishing their social contract which gives them the identical rights, benefits and entitlements (no more, no less) as the rest of the citizens residing in the government controlled areas.

Unfortunately, when a country joins the EU people often make wild assumptions about they are entitled to, wrapping it around unfounded human rights, with the belief that running off to the ECHR will automatically get them what they want.

[Pyrpolizer]

VP,

I'll lay it out for simply you so you can see that there is no need to politicise this issue and that the RoC is following universal rules on this one and that there is no discrimination involved:

UK ex-pat represented by the UK with no social contract is entitled to a UK passport.
TC represented by the RoC with no social contract is entitled to a RoC passport.

UK ex-pat with no social contract with the UK is not entitled to free medical treatment in the UK.
TC with no social contract with the RoC is not entitled to free medical treatment in the RoC.

Also in parallel with the ex-pats, TCs have the right to re-establish their social contract with the RoC government.

Now I hope this clears this all up for you.

You forgot the most important thing Tcs are not expats they do not live aborad according to GC claims, they reside in a counttry which the "RoC" claims to represent 100%, this cannot only be in cases where it suits or benefits purely the GCs and the EU will see through this as soon as the first legal case in brought against the "RoC".

They are not ex-pats, that was done as a comparison of individuals that have given up their social contract with their government and what they are entitled to.

Due to the circumstances we find ourselves, unless a TC lives in the government controlled areas, they do not have a social contract with that government which limits what they are automatically entitled to.

The human rights afforded to TCs allows them, without prejudice, to live in the government controlled areas and therefore establishing their social contract which gives them the identical rights, benefits and entitlements (no more, no less) as the rest of the citizens residing in the government controlled areas.

Unfortunately, when a country joins the EU people often make wild assumptions about they are entitled to, wrapping it around unfounded human rights, with the belief that running off to the ECHR will automatically get them what they want.

Nice post Ed, you saved me the trouble of replying ... I won't be surprised if VP reverts with more distorted ideas though...

[Viewpoint]

But it is not the TCs fault that you have lost control over the northern part of the island and Im sure the EU will slap you hard for penalizing them for this fact, then you continue to say TCs should leave their homes and livelihoods move south so they can set up a "social contract" to get healthcare, do you know how pathetic you sound...all this is an excuse to exclude TCs who you claim are citizens of the "RoC" but in them breath say they are not entitled to healthcare because they have always lived in the north of the island. Well I wont be complaining as I see it as an advantage to proving exactly how manipulative and disgusting you people really are excluding elderly TCs who have paid into the "RoC" fund in their youth only to proven once again that the "RoC" only looks out for GCs.

I hope the law is passed soon and the TCs use this issue as further proof that we are not one people, and will never be one country.

[Me Ed]

But it is not the TCs fault that you have lost control over the northern part of the island and Im sure the EU will slap you hard for penalizing them for this fact, then you continue to say TCs should leave their homes and livelihoods move south so they can set up a "social contract" to get healthcare, do you know how pathetic you sound...all this is an excuse to exclude TCs who you claim are citizens of the "RoC" but in them breath say they are not entitled to healthcare because they have always lived in the north of the island. Well I wont be complaining as I see it as an advantage to proving exactly how manipulative and disgusting you people really are excluding elderly TCs who have paid into the "RoC" fund in their youth only to proven once again that the "RoC" only looks out for GCs.

I hope the law is passed soon and the TCs use this issue as further proof that we are not one people, and will never be one country.

Calm down VP.

What I am saying is that the TCs have made the decision not to be governed by the RoC since 1963 and cemented in 1974 and therefore do not have a social contract with the government and this limits what they are entitled to:

Passports: yes
Paid up state pensions: yes
FREE medical care: no

Also, taking the UK expats as an example, even if they have paid their national insurance contributions in FULL, when they choose live in another country they forfeit their social contract and are no longer automatically entitled to free medical care in the UK, but like the elderly TCs, they are entitled to any paid up state pensions.

As you can see there's no discrimination, it's standard EU policy.

I've also noticed that your stance on this issue is not shared by the mainstream TC/Turk media, who choose to focus more on the quality of health care in the occupied area stating that TCs don't really need to go to the RoC for health care, but I guess their journalists are more objective and politically astute than you.