Cyprus-Forum.com

[Maximus]

VP, was you not saying only the other day, that you want a unified Cyprus where Cypriots can reside wherever they want? if that is the case, then they can reside back in their property or take rent from it and further decide what to do. You do not have the right to dictate to 'stupid refugees' what comes of their property. You want to 'officially' steel if from them and take the capital gain through the process of unification. You believe its a good deal, too right but you say they can buy one at the full asking price next door! Can I ask how you earn your living VP?

[Pyrpolizer]

VP why do you keep on calling the refugees stupid?
Do you realize you are referring to almost half the Kypreoi?
Or is it just some phenomenon that occurs internationally in humans, that says by becoming refugee you also become stupid. Explain this to me please.

Stupid for believing the GC lies that they will return to how it was before 1974.

But you are wrong in this assumption.
In the first few years after 1974 it is true that people were expecting to go back home, and this was true not only for the Kypreoi but for the Kibrislis as well. The politicians back then were using the slogan "ALL REFUGEES BACK HOME"
Today the situation is not the same. I don't think anyone is so stupid to beleive that by returning to an area which is currently Turkified, will be the same as it was before 1974.
However and I will stress this there is ABSOLUTELY NO ONE either refugee or not who will ever accept to DENY HIM THE RIGHT TO SETTLE ANYWHERE HE LIKES OR LOSE HIS PROPERTY TO SOMEONE ELSE.

In reality this means that some people with strong attachments/emotions to their hometowns will choose to return.

Call the stupid call them dreamers if you like but these people are a tiny minority. So be smart and don't deny them this right by asking for quotas in the negotiations.

NB. LOL what am I talking about? Negotiations imish....

[repulsewarrior]

...and why not Justice seen?

...at least for some, they should return as they left, as communities; the displaced from '63 and '74.

[Viewpoint]

Let me try and make it even more simple for you;

The "RoC" are telling GC refugees that they will return and that everything will be like it was before 1974, all lies as 1974 changed Cyprus forever. The refugees are stupid because they believe these lies.....is that simple enough for you Maxi?

...so you are proposing that since they became victims, they should not depend on the Rule of Law, or the Human desire to have Justice seen, they should recognise the Turkish Army's fait accompli because they are not Cypriots, according to the "Turks" who act against common decency, but "Greeks"?

...whose lies vp?

stupid, eh?

The "RoC" lies to all refugees and these refugees are so stupid they believe these lies.

[Viewpoint]

VP, was you not saying only the other day, that you want a unified Cyprus where Cypriots can reside wherever they want? if that is the case, then they can reside back in their property or take rent from it and further decide what to do. You do not have the right to dictate to 'stupid refugees' what comes of their property. You want to 'officially' steel if from them and take the capital gain through the process of unification. You believe its a good deal, too right but you say they can buy one at the full asking price next door! Can I ask how you earn your living VP?

You are right I did say people should be allowed to live where ever they wish either under GC or TC administration, I also support the return of property rights to refugees where it is physcially possble if not compensaiton or alternative TCs property in the south but these are part of a package of solutions which would be available under a BBF with political equality which you reject as your goal is not to share but to dominate and force TCs into minority status in a GC state, which we will never allow.

[Viewpoint]

VP why do you keep on calling the refugees stupid?
Do you realize you are referring to almost half the Kypreoi?
Or is it just some phenomenon that occurs internationally in humans, that says by becoming refugee you also become stupid. Explain this to me please.

Stupid for believing the GC lies that they will return to how it was before 1974.

But you are wrong in this assumption.
In the first few years after 1974 it is true that people were expecting to go back home, and this was true not only for the Kypreoi but for the Kibrislis as well. The politicians back then were using the slogan "ALL REFUGEES BACK HOME"
Today the situation is not the same. I don't think anyone is so stupid to beleive that by returning to an area which is currently Turkified, will be the same as it was before 1974.
However and I will stress this there is ABSOLUTELY NO ONE either refugee or not who will ever accept to DENY HIM THE RIGHT TO SETTLE ANYWHERE HE LIKES OR LOSE HIS PROPERTY TO SOMEONE ELSE.

In reality this means that some people with strong attachments/emotions to their hometowns will choose to return.

Call the stupid call them dreamers if you like but these people are a tiny minority. So be smart and don't deny them this right by asking for quotas in the negotiations.

NB. LOL what am I talking about? Negotiations imish....

Negotiation time is well over and looks like they will never return as neither side really want a solution. As I have always said and support that refugees get closure on their lost properties either by physical return where possible, ,f not then compensation or alternative TC/GC property offers but the lie has not gone away Pyro many GCs still think that one day all will be back to how it was in 1974 which is just one big lie peddled by the "RoC" to keep refugees quite as the administration in the south have everything they really need a country recognized and without TCs.

[Viewpoint]

...and why not Justice seen?

...at least for some, they should return as they left, as communities; the displaced from '63 and '74.

Very few will be able to live this, you have to be realistic the rest will get some sort of compensation.

[Kikapu]

You are the fool falling for the GC line that they want a solution, they have everything they want why would they want to share equally with TCs? Dont forget they were the ones that rejected the last solution offer in from of the whole world.

The answer to your question, why should they recognize the TRNC and have the refugees on their back these poor people have been duped into thinking that they will return to their properties recognition would put an end to that.

nonrecognition of the TRNC is part of the lie that all GCs will return is what keeps the stupid refugees at bay

The above statement by you lead me to think that what you were saying, was that the RoC does recognise the "trnc" but was lying to the refugees about it, which would be a foolish thing to say, of course.

Tell me something. What has the GC refugees lost anything legally in the north that belongs to them, and at the same time, what has the present occupiers of the GCs properties gained anything legally in the north?

The GC refugee like the TC refugee has lost usage of their property and the GC and TC occupiers of these lost properties enjoy usage. Now you may say these refugees on both sides of the divide have pieces of paper that says they own these properties but as long as they cannot get to their properties to enjoy them it means absolutely nothing. Now you will say they can collect a few more pieces of paper if they take Turkey to court and wait around for 10+ years to gain compensation awards which Turkey wont pay or the right to visit a property which has deteriorated like Loiziodous, its currently inhabitable and should be raised to the ground.

So, the short answer is that the GC refugee property owners in the north remain as the legal owners and nothing has changed, despite all the war crimes Turkey has committed in Cyprus since 74 by denying the rightful owners to return back to their properties. It does not matter if the structures on the land falls apart. The land itself does not fall apart and can be rebuild on it again.

Most TC refugees who owned property in the south had on their own free will signed over their properties to Turkey after 74 to become the new "legal owner" in return for stolen GC refugees properties in the north. Therefore, many TCs may no longer are the legal owners of their properties and there may come a time when Turkey wants to settle the Cyprus problem, many of the GC refugees will get their properties back, compensation or exchange, but for every property a TC will need to give back the GC property they got from Turkey in exchange for theirs in the south, Turkey will sell the TCs properties in the south to compensate the GC refugees at post settlement prices, but Turkey will only compensate the TCs at 1974 prices or which ever date they took possession of the TCs properties when the TCs on their own free will signed their properties over to Turkey. In short, TCs will lose big in the end, the GCs will be made whole again in one way or the other, and Turkey will walk away cost free by covering her financial loses she has put into creating the division in Cyprus by selling the TCs properties in the south to make up for it!

[Maximus]

VP, was you not saying only the other day, that you want a unified Cyprus where Cypriots can reside wherever they want? if that is the case, then they can reside back in their property or take rent from it and further decide what to do. You do not have the right to dictate to 'stupid refugees' what comes of their property. You want to 'officially' steel if from them and take the capital gain through the process of unification. You believe its a good deal, too right but you say they can buy one at the full asking price next door! Can I ask how you earn your living VP?

You are right I did say people should be allowed to live where ever they wish either under GC or TC administration, I also support the return of property rights to refugees where it is physcially possble if not compensaiton or alternative TCs property in the south but these are part of a package of solutions which would be available under a BBF with political equality which you reject as your goal is not to share but to dominate and force TCs into minority status in a GC state, which we will never allow.

But they are and it is a FACT and it is because they cant seem recignise this and many other basic things that causes problems. They seem to prefer illegal acts and violations of human rights. This behaviour is not normal VP, how can this behaviour be expected to infultrate Cypriot society and institutions, how can you expect the majority of Cypriot society to accept BS. You think the republic is run poorly now, it would be a compelte failure and disaster, again, first accepting and then living under the conditions which you propose.

Personally, if I would have preferred living as a majority, I would have just sold up and moved to Turkey instead of wasting my whole life chasing a false and worthless and illegal cause inspired and lead by a complete Donktosh (that guy was a racist imbacile, a terrorist). I have more self respect and more positive energy to put out into the world. I would not degrade myself to radical, hypocritical, fanatacism and stoop so low as to leballed as the dregs of humanity.

[Viewpoint]

You are the fool falling for the GC line that they want a solution, they have everything they want why would they want to share equally with TCs? Dont forget they were the ones that rejected the last solution offer in from of the whole world.

The answer to your question, why should they recognize the TRNC and have the refugees on their back these poor people have been duped into thinking that they will return to their properties recognition would put an end to that.

nonrecognition of the TRNC is part of the lie that all GCs will return is what keeps the stupid refugees at bay

The above statement by you lead me to think that what you were saying, was that the RoC does recognise the "trnc" but was lying to the refugees about it, which would be a foolish thing to say, of course.

Tell me something. What has the GC refugees lost anything legally in the north that belongs to them, and at the same time, what has the present occupiers of the GCs properties gained anything legally in the north?

The GC refugee like the TC refugee has lost usage of their property and the GC and TC occupiers of these lost properties enjoy usage. Now you may say these refugees on both sides of the divide have pieces of paper that says they own these properties but as long as they cannot get to their properties to enjoy them it means absolutely nothing. Now you will say they can collect a few more pieces of paper if they take Turkey to court and wait around for 10+ years to gain compensation awards which Turkey wont pay or the right to visit a property which has deteriorated like Loiziodous, its currently inhabitable and should be raised to the ground.

So, the short answer is that the GC refugee property owners in the north remain as the legal owners and nothing has changed, despite all the war crimes Turkey has committed in Cyprus since 74 by denying the rightful owners to return back to their properties. It does not matter if the structures on the land falls apart. The land itself does not fall apart and can be rebuild on it again.

Most TC refugees who owned property in the south had on their own free will signed over their properties to Turkey after 74 to become the new "legal owner" in return for stolen GC refugees properties in the north. Therefore, many TCs may no longer are the legal owners of their properties and there may come a time when Turkey wants to settle the Cyprus problem, many of the GC refugees will get their properties back, compensation or exchange, but for every property a TC will need to give back the GC property they got from Turkey in exchange for theirs in the south, Turkey will sell the TCs properties in the south to compensate the GC refugees at post settlement prices, but Turkey will only compensate the TCs at 1974 prices or which ever date they took possession of the TCs properties when the TCs on their own free will signed their properties over to Turkey. In short, TCs will lose big in the end, the GCs will be made whole again in one way or the other, and Turkey will walk away cost free by covering her financial loses she has put into creating the division in Cyprus by selling the TCs properties in the south to make up for it!

Lots of ifs and buts here, seeing there is no solution then no one is selling anything everyone is just continuing business as normal. Letd address your scenario that Turkey would sell TC property in the south and pay GCs compensation and also hand back GC property, why on earth would GCs get both. If the GC is to get money then they give up their property in the north forever and the TC who exchanged property in the south continues to live in the current property forever, to fund this of course we will either sell property in the south or offer these properties to GCs awaiting closure, dont forget some GCs will get property back, so your theory and thats what it is just a theory is a dead duck.