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South Cyprus out of money cant join the Eurovision

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Re: South Cyprus out of money cant join the Eurovision

Postby bill cobbett » Sat Dec 22, 2012 12:00 am

repulsewarrior wrote:
bill cobbett wrote:
Maximus wrote:Maximus better defines this as two zones which have an equal status. These two zones will make up a single international personality. Its a miniature EU aquis for Cyprus, with no international recognition for each of the two zones.

In VP's definition, Cyprus would have the personality of a schizophrenic, no democracy and maybe either sharia law or civil war later on down the line.


That's about it Maxi for one part of the political power equation, the zonal powers ... 2 zones of equal status, equal in their powers at the zonal level for zonal affairs. The regional powers of one zone mirrored in the other zone.



...now bill. have you been reading my manifesto?


Of course!... bedtime reading... :(
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Re: South Cyprus out of money cant join the Eurovision

Postby potassium » Sat Dec 22, 2012 12:14 am

Thank god we are cut off. We were humiliating ourselves by getting crap singers, so called "artists", to sing a 5 year-old's poem about his diarrhea.
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Re: South Cyprus out of money cant join the Eurovision

Postby Maximus » Sat Dec 22, 2012 12:20 am

the communities can keep social services, money, expenditures, tax, benefits system, welfare etc separate. They will just be enforcing federal law in their respective zones. A bi-regional federation has to have a democratic government to oversee everything, a single international personality.

where is the Turkish constituency? Greek Cypriot refugees or their heirs want to start earning rent, or sell, or choose to live in their home under federal law.
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Re: South Cyprus out of money cant join the Eurovision

Postby Pyrpolizer » Sat Dec 22, 2012 12:50 am

Viewpoint wrote:
Pyrpolizer wrote:
Viewpoint wrote:
Pyrpolizer wrote:VP why do you keep on calling the refugees stupid?
Do you realize you are referring to almost half the Kypreoi?
Or is it just some phenomenon that occurs internationally in humans, that says by becoming refugee you also become stupid. Explain this to me please. :mrgreen:


Stupid for believing the GC lies that they will return to how it was before 1974.


But you are wrong in this assumption.
In the first few years after 1974 it is true that people were expecting to go back home, and this was true not only for the Kypreoi but for the Kibrislis as well. The politicians back then were using the slogan "ALL REFUGEES BACK HOME"
Today the situation is not the same. I don't think anyone is so stupid to beleive that by returning to an area which is currently Turkified, will be the same as it was before 1974.
However and I will stress this there is ABSOLUTELY NO ONE either refugee or not who will ever accept to DENY HIM THE RIGHT TO SETTLE ANYWHERE HE LIKES OR LOSE HIS PROPERTY TO SOMEONE ELSE.

In reality this means that some people with strong attachments/emotions to their hometowns will choose to return.

Call the stupid call them dreamers if you like but these people are a tiny minority. So be smart and don't deny them this right by asking for quotas in the negotiations.

NB. LOL what am I talking about? Negotiations imish.... :o


Negotiation time is well over and looks like they will never return as neither side really want a solution. As I have always said and support that refugees get closure on their lost properties either by physical return where possible, ,f not then compensation or alternative TC/GC property offers but the lie has not gone away Pyro many GCs still think that one day all will be back to how it was in 1974 which is just one big lie peddled by the "RoC" to keep refugees quite as the administration in the south have everything they really need a country recognized and without TCs.


You are very wrong on your assumption that the Government or other politicians lie to refugees about returning to 1974 conditions. My family are refugees I happen to know first hand. You just assume things.
You personally support all those things for a solution that you said, but please VP answer honestly does your leadership support the same or even near the same?
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Re: South Cyprus out of money cant join the Eurovision

Postby Pyrpolizer » Sat Dec 22, 2012 1:11 am

OK this is the official UN political equality definition.
As for those wondering if VP is a TC that was clarified a long time ago that VP's parents are in fact genuine Kibrislis.

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Re: South Cyprus out of money cant join the Eurovision

Postby repulsewarrior » Sat Dec 22, 2012 5:25 am

Maximus wrote:the communities can keep social services, money, expenditures, tax, benefits system, welfare etc separate. They will just be enforcing federal law in their respective zones. A bi-regional federation has to have a democratic government to oversee everything, a single international personality.

where is the Turkish constituency? Greek Cypriot refugees or their heirs want to start earning rent, or sell, or choose to live in their home under federal law.


Maximus, if there was a Greek Constituency, you could ask, where is the Turkish Constituency, right now only the Republic exists. do not confuse or belittle the Federal Government as a power to defend its Citizens' Individual Rights, because you feel safe that it is "Greek" and it represents "your" intentions. if as well there are zones, one would vote for your Representation as a Citizen of this State, indeed, as a Cypriot, and, in the 'zone' you reside you'd vote, with their respective National Assemblies allowing for the representation of its electors as Persons, first (who respect Universal Principals in recognising in their acts as a majority they are able in providing minorities amongst them, for their special needs). thus, as Individuals Cypriots will fight for their Freedom, as Persons, they could be fighting for more Liberty. recognising the Bicommunal dimension of our desires, as Human Beings as well as National identities, demands Cypriot Constituencies. for Greeks and Turks who are Cypriot, a Cypriot State is needed, not a Greek state that recognises, "others" as minorities.

"bi-regional"? how is that an improvement to the Constitution Cyprus has today (with its Communal Chamber) (or to the proposal as it is today, Bizonal)? does this imply, a Federal Government divided by region; how does this relate geographically to a Bicommunal nature: what is the difference, if zones exist?

...zones can be components, allowing for a set of them to be an expression of a Constituency, and they allow for more than two Cypriot Constituencies; are Maronites, Latins, Armenians not entitled to the living relics they sustain, to care for them as their own? should their precious Heritance be allowed to wither because we (let's just say, the rest of us) cannot recognise that they too are an important part of a delicate ethnography? why does the island have to be divided in two? what of the displaced, aren't they our greatest shame, shall we continue to deny them, and the senseless harm they suffered, and still suffer, because they stayed as Cypriots, rather than run away as could be expected against an overwhelming force, if they were the "Greeks"/"Turks" who had blood on their hands? and what is wrong with enclaves, so that at least, Cypriots, (the displaced in the Greek/Turkish proxy wars from '63 and '74), for some, a return as communities? the island would not be split in two anymore, it would be the choice of Cypriots without restriction where they'll reside (as a "majority" or "minority", island-wide), Justice is seen, they will secure our Free Movement, and Free Association, they will end the Green-Line as a "border", it will become another frontier among many, only representing a Jurisdictional Territory, not Sovereignty.

i look forward to a Greek Constituency, like a Turkish Constituency, or others, vital because they educate their children in their schools as Greeks, and refined because on a larger scale, as Cypriots, they meet even higher standards. i look forward to two Hospital Systems, because in meeting a unified standard as Cypriot care, they will compete and collaborate, develop complimentry care, providing in the long-run better medical care. i look forward to Cyprus being the crossroad to 3 Continents, its cities most cosmopolitain, the People most socialised, instead of the backwater it has been for 350 years, until recently.
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Re: South Cyprus out of money cant join the Eurovision

Postby Maximus » Sat Dec 22, 2012 11:30 am

repulsewarrior wrote:
"bi-regional"? how is that an improvement to the Constitution Cyprus has today (with its Communal Chamber) (or to the proposal as it is today, Bizonal)? does this imply, a Federal Government divided by region; how does this relate geographically to a Bicommunal nature: what is the difference, if zones exist?
.


bi-regional, bi-zonal, bi-communal, its just a label, a placeholder for the purpose of definition and understanding. its just a proposed solution to accommodate a minority of Cypriots of Ottoman decent. there should be no divides at all, I am being flexible in my vision, to make the best of an evil situation to move forwards.

the "Turkish Cypriots" constituency will be responsible for enforcing federal law in their zone. the same for the "Greek Cypriot" constituency. The republic will have a federal government, a democratically elected one, that will oversee everything and the run the country as a whole.

Its a start and in time, powers will be consolidated, Cyprus will evolve, to eventually abolish any scars of colonial, civil and modern technological rape and war. For any of this to happen, the "Turkish Cypriots" must become legitimate first, their leadership or community representation must be legitimate. they must abolish their false sense of disproportionate entitlement, they must renounce and condemn all forms of apartheid and terror, they (long with Turkey) must respect and enforce the fundamental rights of Cypriots and the sovereign integrity of the republic of Cyprus.
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Re: South Cyprus out of money cant join the Eurovision

Postby Lordo » Sat Dec 22, 2012 2:55 pm

children in the roc schools are fainting in the classrooms because their parents cannot afford to feed them and you are discussing the merits of whether the roc can compete in a music competition.

the chance to have a single government and a single zone with the 13 amendments was in 1972. it was vetoed by makarios.

the three bi s is all you get because if you refuse this then there is only one choice left. you will like that one even less my elam friends
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Re: South Cyprus out of money cant join the Eurovision

Postby Viewpoint » Sat Dec 22, 2012 7:34 pm

Pyrpolizer wrote:
Viewpoint wrote:
Pyrpolizer wrote:
Viewpoint wrote:
Pyrpolizer wrote:VP why do you keep on calling the refugees stupid?
Do you realize you are referring to almost half the Kypreoi?
Or is it just some phenomenon that occurs internationally in humans, that says by becoming refugee you also become stupid. Explain this to me please. :mrgreen:


Stupid for believing the GC lies that they will return to how it was before 1974.


But you are wrong in this assumption.
In the first few years after 1974 it is true that people were expecting to go back home, and this was true not only for the Kypreoi but for the Kibrislis as well. The politicians back then were using the slogan "ALL REFUGEES BACK HOME"
Today the situation is not the same. I don't think anyone is so stupid to beleive that by returning to an area which is currently Turkified, will be the same as it was before 1974.
However and I will stress this there is ABSOLUTELY NO ONE either refugee or not who will ever accept to DENY HIM THE RIGHT TO SETTLE ANYWHERE HE LIKES OR LOSE HIS PROPERTY TO SOMEONE ELSE.

In reality this means that some people with strong attachments/emotions to their hometowns will choose to return.

Call the stupid call them dreamers if you like but these people are a tiny minority. So be smart and don't deny them this right by asking for quotas in the negotiations.

NB. LOL what am I talking about? Negotiations imish.... :o


Negotiation time is well over and looks like they will never return as neither side really want a solution. As I have always said and support that refugees get closure on their lost properties either by physical return where possible, ,f not then compensation or alternative TC/GC property offers but the lie has not gone away Pyro many GCs still think that one day all will be back to how it was in 1974 which is just one big lie peddled by the "RoC" to keep refugees quite as the administration in the south have everything they really need a country recognized and without TCs.


You are very wrong on your assumption that the Government or other politicians lie to refugees about returning to 1974 conditions. My family are refugees I happen to know first hand. You just assume things.
You personally support all those things for a solution that you said, but please VP answer honestly does your leadership support the same or even near the same?


Definitely Pyro, again your leaders tell you lies and paint us in a bad light to keep as I say stupid refugees like yourself thinking they want a solution by giving up what they have today and share recognition with the TCs.
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Re: South Cyprus out of money cant join the Eurovision

Postby Kikapu » Sat Dec 22, 2012 7:44 pm

Viewpoint wrote:
Kikapu wrote:
Viewpoint wrote:
Kikapu wrote:
Viewpoint wrote:
You are the fool falling for the GC line that they want a solution, they have everything they want why would they want to share equally with TCs? Dont forget they were the ones that rejected the last solution offer in from of the whole world.

The answer to your question, why should they recognize the TRNC and have the refugees on their back these poor people have been duped into thinking that they will return to their properties recognition would put an end to that.


Viewpoint wrote:nonrecognition of the TRNC is part of the lie that all GCs will return is what keeps the stupid refugees at bay


The above statement by you lead me to think that what you were saying, was that the RoC does recognise the "trnc" but was lying to the refugees about it, which would be a foolish thing to say, of course.

Tell me something. What has the GC refugees lost anything legally in the north that belongs to them, and at the same time, what has the present occupiers of the GCs properties gained anything legally in the north?


The GC refugee like the TC refugee has lost usage of their property and the GC and TC occupiers of these lost properties enjoy usage. Now you may say these refugees on both sides of the divide have pieces of paper that says they own these properties but as long as they cannot get to their properties to enjoy them it means absolutely nothing. Now you will say they can collect a few more pieces of paper if they take Turkey to court and wait around for 10+ years to gain compensation awards which Turkey wont pay or the right to visit a property which has deteriorated like Loiziodous, its currently inhabitable and should be raised to the ground.


So, the short answer is that the GC refugee property owners in the north remain as the legal owners and nothing has changed, despite all the war crimes Turkey has committed in Cyprus since 74 by denying the rightful owners to return back to their properties. It does not matter if the structures on the land falls apart. The land itself does not fall apart and can be rebuild on it again.

Most TC refugees who owned property in the south had on their own free will signed over their properties to Turkey after 74 to become the new "legal owner" in return for stolen GC refugees properties in the north. Therefore, many TCs may no longer are the legal owners of their properties and there may come a time when Turkey wants to settle the Cyprus problem, many of the GC refugees will get their properties back, compensation or exchange, but for every property a TC will need to give back the GC property they got from Turkey in exchange for theirs in the south, Turkey will sell the TCs properties in the south to compensate the GC refugees at post settlement prices, but Turkey will only compensate the TCs at 1974 prices or which ever date they took possession of the TCs properties when the TCs on their own free will signed their properties over to Turkey. In short, TCs will lose big in the end, the GCs will be made whole again in one way or the other, and Turkey will walk away cost free by covering her financial loses she has put into creating the division in Cyprus by selling the TCs properties in the south to make up for it!


Lots of ifs and buts here, seeing there is no solution then no one is selling anything everyone is just continuing business as normal. Letd address your scenario that Turkey would sell TC property in the south and pay GCs compensation and also hand back GC property, why on earth would GCs get both. If the GC is to get money then they give up their property in the north forever and the TC who exchanged property in the south continues to live in the current property forever, to fund this of course we will either sell property in the south or offer these properties to GCs awaiting closure, dont forget some GCs will get property back, so your theory and thats what it is just a theory is a dead duck.


First of all, you did not address Turkey now being the "legal" owners of most of the TCs properties in the south because many TCs signed over their properties to Turkey in exchange for stolen GCs properties in the north. When the time comes for Turkey to make the deal with the RoC, many TCs will be only getting pennies on the dollar as a compensation from Turkey for their properties in the south, because the GC refugees owned 4 times more property in the north than what the TCs left behind in the south. Therefore, not only many GC refugees will need to be given their properties back in the north to minimise the financial cost to Turkey, but those properties that cannot be given back to the GCs due to public projects that has been built on them, they will need to be compensated with cash at post settlement values from the sale of TCs properties in the south as well as exchanging TCs properties to the one's the GCs left in the north that cannot be returned due to the public projects. When the properties owned by the GC and the TCs are at ratios 4:1 in GCs favour, many TCs will lose their shirts, if not their underwear also, thanks to Turkey trading stolen GCs properties with them in exchange with their own legal ones.
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