Cyprus-Forum.com

[cypezokyli]

i yesterday met a greek girl.
she places herself politically left from the KKE (communist party of greece)
i didnt know that people like that still exist!!!
anyway, according to her all conflicts have economic reasons and are done for the benefit of the capitalists..blabla u know the marx things.

she event went on to say that the cyprus problem is economic bc we (the gc) dont want a solution bc then we will loose the cheap tc labour!!!!


in any case, i find this idea absurd, but my question is :

is there anyone who things that the cyprus problem is an economic problem?
would u say that the communist model applies to our case?
are we victims of the evil capitalism?

[Kifeas]

i yesterday met a greek girl.
she places herself politically left from the KKE (communist party of greece)
i didnt know that people like that still exist!!!
anyway, according to her all conflicts have economic reasons and are done for the benefit of the capitalists..blabla u know the marx things.

she event went on to say that the cyprus problem is economic bc we (the gc) dont want a solution bc then we will loose the cheap tc labour!!!!


in any case, i find this idea absurd, but my question is :

is there anyone who things that the cyprus problem is an economic problem?
would u say that the communist model applies to our case?
are we victims of the evil capitalism?

If you dig deeply into the problem you will discover that the prime cause of it (not the single one of course,) is the Anglo-American capitalism and imperialism.

Why do the Anglo-Americans care so much to have control of the entire Middle East region and consequently Cyprus? Why did they hate Makarios so much and why they favored partition of Cyprus and the two communities to be in constant conflict with each other, instead of being united and both working in favor of an independed country?

[andytandreou]

I think Kifeas hit the nail on the head there!

The girl is probably right!

[Alexios]

I think we would all agree that the biggest conflicts in history were essentially economic ones.However, the Cyprus problem in its totallity is also deeply historical,political as well as psychological or atleast those aspects are too deeply rooted to allow us centre the conflicts on purely economic reasons. I guess overall however,regional financial and geopolitic interests of powers much larger than ourselves are the corner stone on which everything else is built upon.

[Piratis]

according to her all conflicts have economic reasons and are done for the benefit of the capitalists

Thats correct. And in the case of Cyprus, as Kifeas pointed out, those capitalists that had the power to shape things for their own benefit were the English colonialists and not the poor and mostly uneducated Cypriots.

They are the ones who created the problem in the first place, and they are the ones who continue to support the division since a truly united Cyprus is against their economic interests.

I am not saying that we didn't make mistakes. However those that think that half a million people are able to define the destiny of this place against the economic interests of the powerful are mistaken.

[cypezokyli]

They are the ones who created the problem in the first place

agree on that

I am not saying that we didn't make mistakes

agree also on that

and they are the ones who continue to support the division since a truly united Cyprus is against their economic interests.

how?

[insan]

Thats correct. And in the case of Cyprus, as Kifeas pointed out, those capitalists that had the power to shape things for their own benefit were the English colonialists and not the poor and mostly uneducated Cypriots.

Actually, those capitalists don't give a damn f*ck about whether Cyprus is united or not. In a globalized world all they want is a stable alliance and full control of politics, economics etc of the world. They prefer a unified Cyprus because Turkey, Greece and Cyprus are all in this capitalist,western alliance.

In this globalization process Greece, Turkey and Cyprus are all local clients of the super powers.

The problem is between these 3. In this rapidly globalizing world, every capitalist group has its own dreams and fears about the future. The problem is: The conflicting interests of the capitalist groups of Greece, Turkey and Cyprus.

The capitalist groups(The big boys) of Turks and Hellenes have a dream about becoming the leading/influential capitalist group of East Meditarennean thus at the table of Lords of The Globalized World.

Just my 2 cents.

[ELLAS H TEFRA!]

Thats correct. And in the case of Cyprus, as Kifeas pointed out, those capitalists that had the power to shape things for their own benefit were the English colonialists and not the poor and mostly uneducated Cypriots.

Actually, those capitalists don't give a damn f*ck about whether Cyprus is united or not. In a globalized world all they want is a stable alliance and full control of politics, economics etc of the world. They prefer a unified Cyprus because Turkey, Greece and Cyprus are all in this capitalist,western alliance.

In this globalization process Greece, Turkey and Cyprus are all local clients of the super powers.

The problem is between these 3. In this rapidly globalizing world, every capitalist group has its own dreams and fears about the future. The problem is: The conflicting interests of the capitalist groups of Greece, Turkey and Cyprus.

The capitalist groups(The big boys) of Turks and Hellenes have a dream about becoming the leading/influential capitalist group of East Meditarennean thus at the table of Lords of The Globalized World.

Just my 2 cents.

A good effort, but I am afraid you have misunderstood certain things.

The "Globalised" world you are referring to is a notion that is primarily based on economic relations and capitalist imperatives. In that description of the contemporary state of the international arena the EU is to a large extend the strongest most powerfull actor in international economic relations. Hence your nameless "super powers" theory does not apply in this explanation of Globalisation.

Perhaps in a realist explanation you could find some insight that could apply to your argument, but in a political economy point of view, marxist, or neo-liberal argument there is no such thing as "super-powers" (A TERM NOT USED SINCE THE COLD WAR).

Greece "belongs" to the EU and the strings it used to have with the US are not as strong as 30-40 years ago. If you change "super-powers" with the EU it might improve your argument, but still you need to read more about the theories on Globalisation (especially economic Globalisation).

In terms of the Globalised economy Cyprus is insignificant, whereas Greece is more of a burden on the EU for decades now. There is much truth though about the view that there is a struggle of superiority in the Balkans and even the Est Mediteranean, but even that is in dispute since in relation to the size of the Global economy and the powerful relationships between the "Holy Triad" of Japan-US-EU the Balkans and the Mediteranean is not of primary significance.

The preference of the Europeans and the Americans in terms of whether they want a unified Cyprus or not cannot be rationaly explained in economic terms. It has nothing to do with the capitalist interests fo either of them.

Turkey on the other hand could be described in such a way, since it represents the US's means to gain a more influential role within Brussels. From that point of view there is a corelation between US capitalist interests-Turkey-and the Cyprus problem, but only if you recognise the problem as an obstacle to certain US strategic plans to "push" Turkey into the EU.

[Piratis]

Actually, those capitalists don't give a damn f*ck about whether Cyprus is united or not.

They do, not because they care about us (they don't) but because a truly united Cyprus is against their interests. Dividing people and creating conflicts that can exploit is the "divide and rule" tactics that the British used not only in Cyprus but in many other places as well.

Cyprus is in a very strategic place and it is very important for the British. I believe their largest military bases are here.

If Cyprus was truly independent, or if it was part of Greece or Turkey then maintaining such large bases with such an Independence would be a much more difficult task. Remember the case that the Turks didn't allow the Americans to invade Iraq from north Turkey? A crippled Cyprus would never be able to do such thing. This is why they want the conflicting situation to continue, either by maintaining the status quo, or by creating another conflicting and unstable situation. (e.g. Annan plan)

[cypezokyli]

it seems that for a number of us the problem is indeed rooted in the anglo-american capitalism. we are also clever enough to realise that it is their fault that we started fighting in the first place and that we continue to fight. we are clever enough to realise what they are doing but unable to stop it. because as soon as we try we will fight between each other and try to blame each other.
we have accepted that we are the victims of the "divide and rule" and we insist to stay victims.
so the way i see it, it is our fault. bc we assume that we are not anymore the "uneducated cypriots" but educated , and still we prefer to blame rather than solving.

a couple of questions more...
in the time of satelites and floating armies how startegic do we continue to be?

do we really believe that the english want to preserve the conflict in order to keep their bases?

who gains economically from our division?

However those that think that half a million people are able to define the destiny of this place against the economic interests of the powerful are mistaken.

so why do we continue arguing in this forum? we dont we just accept our destiny ?