Cyprus-Forum.com

[Lordo]

Lordo, if you'll allow me, i do not make judgements and scathing indictment, i think every Greek and Turk on the island know that for the most part, their lives were subjected to terror, all of them; that is what can be said.

as a Person you do your Constituency no favours ignoring the fact you are pasting on your so-called adversaries what are flaws in all of Human Kind. you are an Individual above all, this i assume you agree, it is up to you to act accordingly. and this can be said to any Individual defending an Identity of Persons.

...indeed Greeks cannot be "Greeks", why not, Turks are not "Turks" for the same reason, as Cypriots. Freedom, this choice is Mankind's gift to what seems are very few in earnest; at least Britain gave Cypriots a Rule of Law, Turkey considers Cyprus' value as Property, a vital asset it fiercely occupies militarily, they remain convinced that what was denied at the beginning of the Modern Age (with the treaty of Lausanne) can be resisted, indefinitely, it is theirs, Cyprus, because they were swindled, and in this regard only Britain is privy to the whole truth.

...as such, i ask you, do you see the value in a Greek Constituency, if there exists a Republic, and a Turkish Constituency, as well?

rw i am afraid we have lost the will and fight to unite our country, in the environment of such stupidity and blindness of the facts.

1. 10 year old tc boy witnesses a burning of an old man.
2. a commando soldier witnesses his burning alive as well as the dead bodies of innocent civilians, 22 of them most who were not able to run away.
3. the same commando witnesses the greek major telling his troops not to spare even the chickens.

and of course the eoga-c members here will have us believe that all this needs to be independently corroborated. I wonder where the brave un soldiers were when the firing started.

i seem to remember somewhere an old gc lady pulling up her skirt and collecting horta for soup. now the old lady has gone but perhaps the horta being gc origin can be relied upon to tell the truth that our eoga friends wish to hear.

but going back to this thread and the intentions of turkey. here is the letter of inonu to kucuk

Pursuant to a resolution passed by the Security Council, an international peace-keeping force will shortly be sent to Cyprus. We hope and desire that by this means it will be possible to establish security on the Island in the shortest possible space of time. After security has been established by this means, if the Turks persist in declining to assume their duties and positions within the Cyprus state, objections and complaints made by our side concerning the Greek Cypriots’ single-handed pursuit of state affairs to the detriment of the Turks’ rights and interests will not be countenanced by world public opinion. In addition to this, the single-handed domination of state affairs by the Greek Cypriots until such time as a final solution is found to the Cyprus problem will undoubtedly give rise to various restrictions as far as the rights and interests of the Turks are concerned.

Therefore, the taking of the necessary measures to establish security on the Island and, once these have been taken, the swiftest possible gradual return, beginning with the Vice-President and the Turkish Ministers, of all Turks to their positions within the state mechanism and their firm and tenacious opposition to the Greek Cypriots’ adverse activities from within the state mechanism will assist greatly towards the success of our national cause.


now considering this advice which is not in doubt, our eoga-c friends still believe that turkeys aim was partition. then we move on to 1972 where clerides and dengtas agree on the 13 amendments forced by turkey because if he was not there is no way on earth dengtas would have agreed to anything like that.

but our eoga-c friends would have us believe that turkey wanted taksim. it was a double bluff that they insisted that 1972 agreement excluded enosis and taksim. by insisting on it being excluded they must have wanted it included. well it is either that or they did not understand the meaning of the two words. but i have this feeling that our eoga-c friends do not understand the two words.

by posting and disrespecting the innocent people who were so violently killed, reminds me of a drug addict who turns to his victim and says you made me hurt you. it is laways the victims fault.
under what human right convention did the gc ng have the right to bomb civilians and murder 22 innocent people one burnt alive.

be that as it may it just goes to show that the average gc is actually quite stupid. with such hatred within our eoga-c friends i cannot see any scenario where we may be able to live together. so perhaps two states is the only solution. as the controls for that is in the hands of the roc via the pimps that they prostitute themsleves to daily in the un there is only one way to resolve this. there is unfinished business and until it is concluded it will not be resolved.

[GreekIslandGirl]

Kimon, don't ever let them forget that the Brits brought in the Turks to destroy the Greek natives of Cyprus.

[Nikitas]

"two states is the only solution"
REALLY!!! Isn't that what we had since 1974? Isn't BBF a polite way of saying partition?

Two states where every time a valuable resource is found on the territory of the one, the other chimes in wanting half.

Two states where the territory for one is apportioned at a rate twice that which is justified by its population.

With this kind of approach there will be no solution, two state or other.

Kifeas posted a map some yeras ago, showing what 18 per cent of the trritory looks like. Take that, add true independence for both states, and then we talk of a two state solution. And after you finish with Cyprus let's see you apply the same approach to Kurdistan.

[repulsewarrior]

The problem with archival releases is that they do not release all documentation. Some is still restricted and will be forever due to national interests. We can fill in the blanks by inference.

The events leading to the Kofinou incident are an example of such partial disclosures. What followed leads to inference of the deal and the motives behind it. We know how the incident started, by firing from TC positions in Mari and Kofinou against traffic on the Nicosia - LImassol higway. Who ordered the firing to start, when things had been peaceful till then, and why?

What is not widely known is that General Grivas regarded the situation as a matter for the police to deal with, not the army. His view was ignored and he was ordered to put the army in there. The resulting events led to escalation and if you remember Greece had called up reserves and mobilised its armed forces. It was the nearest to war Greece and Turkey had come since the start of the Cyprus problem. Then we had the Evros deal, which seems to escape the knowledge and awareness of TC posters on the forum. I recall the statements made by Greek dictator Papadopoulos after the Evros deal, how Cyprus is like a woman who can have two lovers and such emetic stuff.

From the above and the subsequent actions of the Junta in Cyprus (attempts to kill Makarios, EOKA B' etc) we can infer the hidden contents of the Evros deal- it was Double Enosis and dissolution of the ROC, a goal Turkey still pursues to thid day. The behavior of the Greek General Staff during the 1974 invasion, the non publication of the Cyprus File for reasons of national interest, indicate that there had been a secret deal. Everyone, includinng the TCs, had colluded in this deal, everyone except the majority of GCs. And that is how it remains till now.

In the weeks leading to the Annan referendum it was interesting to hear Greek politicians of all parties support the Annan plan, on the grounds that in Cyprus "the nation had suffered a military and diplomatic defeat" (Stefanos Tzoumakas, PASOK, speaking on MEGA), a characteristic statement. Interesting that they chose to present the situation this way, because officially Greece had suffered zilch, it lost nothing substantial, no territory, no national sovereignty in 1974. So what loss was being alluded to if not one contained in a secret deal which had gone wrong? If anyone doubs this just think what the situation would have been if Makarios had in fact been killed in 1974, the puppet government survived and the Greek side had managed to retain military cohesion after Attila I. There would be no Cyprus today, and the Green Line would be a Greek-Turkish border.

I am betting that in time we will find that there had been a plan, part of which was Attila I. Turkey realised that the Greek side was in chaos and pushed ahead with Attila II, a double cross on all its partners. The payback for the double cross was Cyprus' membership in the EU which effectively blocks any future plans Turkey might have had for the whole island. It will be interesting to see in the future if that was all the payback or if more is coming. Anglosaxons never forget, nor forgive.

...ah re Nikitas, your post left me breathless, how insiteful.

if a referendum was held today how many Greeks would vote to be "Greeks", my guess would be around 20%, about the same as it was 60 years ago. the rest for the most part are silent, busy with their everyday lives, only few on the other side of the bell curve feel compelled to express another nature, an opposite to plunder, just as extreme. and for the same reasons Greeks demonstrated their Principals for Freedom, they did not come out in droves, the coup failed in two days. thus, the traitors whether "Turkish" or "Greek", are against the recognition that in the end we are only Human; they need only to convince some, that they are special because they fit into an exclusive Identity, to be heard.

...an what of the ultimate power; take a look at the map, if Greece were to hold Cyprus, Europe controls the Med by being equal to Turkey, the coup was good for Turkey, she became the bigger partner in Nato, not with Cyprus, but at least with Cyprus impotent. England and Turkey still command their positions, from Cyprus, and who ultimately must face their own acts of malice.

[repulsewarrior]

Lordo, i don't know the, "we", you are talking about.

[repulsewarrior]

...as such, i ask you, do you see the value in a Greek Constituency, if there exists a Republic, and a Turkish Constituency, as well?

...and by the way, i'd like an answer to the above question. (is it time for the Republic to be freed to fight for its Citizens as Cypriots, because Turkish Cypriots call for an equal partner in Greek Cypriots, who like them, have self representation to sustain their Identity as Persons within a Constituency too?)

[Lordo]

"two states is the only solution"
REALLY!!! Isn't that what we had since 1974? Isn't BBF a polite way of saying partition?

Two states where every time a valuable resource is found on the territory of the one, the other chimes in wanting half.

Two states where the territory for one is apportioned at a rate twice that which is justified by its population.

With this kind of approach there will be no solution, two state or other.

Kifeas posted a map some yeras ago, showing what 18 per cent of the trritory looks like. Take that, add true independence for both states, and then we talk of a two state solution. And after you finish with Cyprus let's see you apply the same approach to Kurdistan.

i dont know which century or which galaxy you or kifeas live in but i live in the one that we call Sun. In this galaxy we have land values. and one can only exchange land values not areas. that makes you and kifeas in either the galaxy of a red dwarf or a balck hole. which just about puts you boys in the gurubedos category.

now cosider the fact the land in the south is worth at least twice as much as the land in the north. so the 18% of tc land in the south equals 36% of land in the north. as this is not actually true it is more like 5 times as much worth, when the exchange happens not only will the tcs be entitled to all of the north but they will also own land in the south unless you boys can buy all that remains. and judging by the economy in the south it is very unlikely.

even with the depressed economy the roc has bought this 27 donum land for 481 thousand euros per donum.

lets face the reason why roc refuses to have an agreement is bacaue they will not get a single donum back in a fair exchange, will want to buy all the remaining tc land and give up the hold of sole recognition.

now here is an event which ms clredies claims it is a one off. thats how everything starts

enjoy.

http://www.news.cyprus-property-buyers. ... id=0012112

[Kikapu]

"two states is the only solution"
REALLY!!! Isn't that what we had since 1974? Isn't BBF a polite way of saying partition?

Two states where every time a valuable resource is found on the territory of the one, the other chimes in wanting half.

Two states where the territory for one is apportioned at a rate twice that which is justified by its population.

With this kind of approach there will be no solution, two state or other.

Kifeas posted a map some yeras ago, showing what 18 per cent of the trritory looks like. Take that, add true independence for both states, and then we talk of a two state solution. And after you finish with Cyprus let's see you apply the same approach to Kurdistan.

i dont know which century or which galaxy you or kifeas live in but i live in the one that we call Sun. In this galaxy we have land values. and one can only exchange land values not areas. that makes you and kifeas in either the galaxy of a red dwarf or a balck hole. which just about puts you boys in the gurubedos category.

now cosider the fact the land in the south is worth at least twice as much as the land in the north. so the 18% of tc land in the south equals 36% of land in the north. as this is not actually true it is more like 5 times as much worth, when the exchange happens not only will the tcs be entitled to all of the north but they will also own land in the south unless you boys can buy all that remains. and judging by the economy in the south it is very unlikely.

even with the depressed economy the roc has bought this 27 donum land for 481 thousand euros per donum.

lets face the reason why roc refuses to have an agreement is bacaue they will not get a single donum back in a fair exchange, will want to buy all the remaining tc land and give up the hold of sole recognition.

now here is an event which ms clredies claims it is a one off. thats how everything starts

enjoy.

http://www.news.cyprus-property-buyers. ... id=0012112

Lordo, what were the land values in 1974 for the northern and the southern parts of Cyprus on like for like basis? Don't you think if you are going to use values of land as what percentage land each state should have, surely you have to compare apples to apples and not apples to turkeys!


Just because the north is an illegal entity by self declared independence under foreign occupation on land belonging to others which makes it's land values to be worth far less than the rest of the RoC, you are not going to be rewarded with equal financial status for land with the rest of the RoC, just because you fucked up for God sake.

[repulsewarrior]

...as i've said, at least the British gave Cypriots a Rule of Law.

...what this case demonstrates is that Cypriots, those living south of the illegal occupation in the north have proceeded to increase the value of land through their own productivity many times more than what could be considered natural. after 38 years, with one third of its population homeless, these people have recovered. despite the present problems in the Banking sector, and with Government overspending, it is a State where they have the respect of their global partners, and their peers.

...Lordo, i would not be so gleeful that property in the north is unchanged in value since the Greek population was brutally removed. this indication of Turkey's failings are recognisable by Turks who are Cypriot and who do not necessarily want to be "Turk".

[Lordo]

"two states is the only solution"
REALLY!!! Isn't that what we had since 1974? Isn't BBF a polite way of saying partition?

Two states where every time a valuable resource is found on the territory of the one, the other chimes in wanting half.

Two states where the territory for one is apportioned at a rate twice that which is justified by its population.

With this kind of approach there will be no solution, two state or other.

Kifeas posted a map some yeras ago, showing what 18 per cent of the trritory looks like. Take that, add true independence for both states, and then we talk of a two state solution. And after you finish with Cyprus let's see you apply the same approach to Kurdistan.

i dont know which century or which galaxy you or kifeas live in but i live in the one that we call Sun. In this galaxy we have land values. and one can only exchange land values not areas. that makes you and kifeas in either the galaxy of a red dwarf or a balck hole. which just about puts you boys in the gurubedos category.

now cosider the fact the land in the south is worth at least twice as much as the land in the north. so the 18% of tc land in the south equals 36% of land in the north. as this is not actually true it is more like 5 times as much worth, when the exchange happens not only will the tcs be entitled to all of the north but they will also own land in the south unless you boys can buy all that remains. and judging by the economy in the south it is very unlikely.

even with the depressed economy the roc has bought this 27 donum land for 481 thousand euros per donum.

lets face the reason why roc refuses to have an agreement is bacaue they will not get a single donum back in a fair exchange, will want to buy all the remaining tc land and give up the hold of sole recognition.

now here is an event which ms clredies claims it is a one off. thats how everything starts

enjoy.

http://www.news.cyprus-property-buyers. ... id=0012112

Lordo, what were the land values in 1974 for the northern and the southern parts of Cyprus on like for like basis? Don't you think if you are going to use values of land as what percentage land each state should have, surely you have to compare apples to apples and not apples to turkeys!


Just because the north is an illegal entity by self declared independence under foreign occupation on land belonging to others which makes it's land values to be worth far less than the rest of the RoC, you are not going to be rewarded with equal financial status for land with the rest of the RoC, just because you fucked up for God sake.

you cant even read what is in front of you. here you are in 2012 and you dreaming of 1974. when this decision was taken to exchange between a tc and gc was there any mention of land values of 1974 at all. was 1974 mentioned at all. no.
but i hear you say it is unfair. sure it is, so was 50 years of economic and political suffocation. so was hijacking of the roc government by the gcs. so was the acceptance of that fact by the un. so was the acceptance of gcs into the eu by themselves. shall i go on or have you got it.

the property problem is solved. you can take advantage and claim your property and do as you wish or follow the politicians and hope and pray.