Cyprus-Forum.com

[GreekIslandGirl]

... 90% was ok, the resistance, the civil disobedience, the leafleting, the strikes and marches even as far as armed fighting against a much better armed enemy, that was all ok...

None of us were there. We should not dare to sit in judgment, now, with only the facts handed down to us from STUD's compatriots.

People do what they have to do to survive and carry out their duties towards gaining freedom for all. It's unbecoming of us to suggest we could have done better, bill.

[bill cobbett]

Is someone with taramasalata for brains really posting verses from the Bible in support of murder by lynch-mob...???

(anyone got any pepto-bismol...?)

you have hit the nail on the head my friend. these people are what is commonly known as two headed revionists. they make it up as they go along. you got an objection to that. how dare you sir, how very dare you, you little charlou upstart that you are. how very dare you.

What did I tell you Bill?

Kimon me dear join us in saying that a lot of what the people of CY of the time did under the leadership of eoka was right and just... 90% was ok, the resistance, the civil disobedience, the leafleting, the strikes and marches even as far as armed fighting against a much better armed enemy, that was all ok... but to support the murders of unarmed civilians by the likes of Simpson's gangs, for instance, was and remains very wrong.... imho

CYs don't make good terrorists file, they are Strugglers for Freedom.

I will agree with 99% of your post. But now answer me this question: When someone informs on fighters and they are arrested tortured and killed (like in the cases of Afxendiou and Karaolis). When someone informs the enemy about the hide outs of the fighters etc. When someone informs about future operations to be undertaken and thus these operations are aborted or they fail. What do you do with such persons? Is the punishment of collaborators of the enemy legit or not?

Brrr... well let's accept that when you say "punishment", we're talking about "capital punishment" which is opposed by very many even when it's the end result of due judicial process with properly constituted courts, lawyers and juries etc.

... and in CY during the Troubles we're not talking about anything we would accept were recognisable fair trials are we...???

... and to answer K's question as to what should have been done to people accused of being traitors... well, first of all ask, what law did these suspects break? Certainly no law of a properly constituted state, so doesn't it follow that if no law was broken then no crime was committed, so the question goes further and becomes what should happen to people who have broken no law?

We can also look for a better answer to K's question in places like Kosovo in recent years, where the ICJ has taken a very dim view of paramilitary justice.

[kurupetos]

One must ask one self why was he tied outside the church. why not anywhere else. secondly why was the priest outside organising whos turn it was to throw the stone. his only crime was he was against violence and he voiced his opinion.

but i understand there is another incident where eoga walked into the church where the followers were praying. they told everybody to turn and face the wall except the priest. and they shot one akelite infornt of the priest. he gave them his blessing just before they shot him.

Sorry but that does not prove he was not a traitor. Provide credible evidence or bugger off.

[kimon07]

I will agree with 99% of your post. But now answer me this question: When someone informs on fighters and they are arrested tortured and killed (like in the cases of Afxendiou and Karaolis). When someone informs the enemy about the hide outs of the fighters etc. When someone informs about future operations to be undertaken and thus these operations are aborted or they fail. What do you do with such persons? Is the punishment of collaborators of the enemy legit or not?

Brrr... well let's accept that when you say "punishment", we're talking about "capital punishment" which is opposed by very many even when it's the end result of due judicial process with properly constituted courts, lawyers and juries etc.

What law did the Greek and French collaborators of the Nazis, who were executed by the Greek and French resistance violate? During revolutions or resistance wars against foreign invaders/conquerors, there are the laws of the revolutionaries and the moral laws valid for millenia. The moral law (which is also a state law in all countries) determining who is a traitor and how he is to be punished is very ancient, it does not need to be redefined. Judicial processes and "properly constituted courts" of the Conqueror/Oppressor are nothing more than additional instruments of oppression. Any state, legal or judicial system that denies me my right of self determination and self governance is a tyranny and its laws are null and void.

... and in CY during the Troubles we're not talking about anything we would accept were recognisable fair trials are we...???

We are talking about the revolutionary committees which were judging and passing sentence. Happens in all revolutions. It happened in France, for instance, during the Nazi occupation.

... and to answer K's question as to what should have been done to people accused of being traitors... well, first of all ask, what law did these suspects break?Certainly no law of a properly constituted state, so doesn't it follow that if no law was broken then no crime was committed, so the question goes further and becomes what should happen to people who have broken no law?

Like I said before, they broke the very ancient moral law (which is also state law in all countries) that you do not collaborate with the enemy and the oppressor against whom your nation is conducting a war. Braking this law brings punishment varying from heads shaving (France) to executions, depending on the severity of their offence.

We can also look for a better answer to K's question in places like Kosovo in recent years, where the ICJ has taken a very dim view of paramilitary justice.

You are confusing mass massacres and ethnic cleansing applied by the forces of one nation against another, with individual death or other sentences imposed by the regular or revolutionary authorities of a nation against some of its own people due to treason.

[kimon07]

One must ask one self why was he tied outside the church. why not anywhere else.

Because in small Greek villages the only one church was/is always in the only central square, an area from which all villagers had to pass or to which they would all gather for any major event.

.... but i understand there is another incident where eoga walked into the church where the followers were praying. they told everybody to turn and face the wall except the priest. and they shot one akelite infornt of the priest. he gave them his blessing just before they shot him.

Which village? When? Execution IN the church? Only and Akelist could think of that. Since the very ancient times Greeks would not kill in a church or temple or when the victim would manage to grab an altar as an "iketis" (pleader). And what was an Akelist doing in a church praying? Aren't Akelists atheists?
I think the grasshopper is screwing your mind.

[observer]

Try reading the Bible's Liviticus Chapter 20 - Like in verse 9 "Anyone who curses their father or mother is to be put to death." That's what your Bible supports.

[kimon07]

Try reading the Bible's Liviticus Chapter 20 - Like in verse 9 "Anyone who curses their father or mother is to be put to death." That's what your Bible supports.

Not MY Bible. I am a GREEK.

[Get Real!]

Try reading the Bible's Liviticus Chapter 20 - Like in verse 9 "Anyone who curses their father or mother is to be put to death." That's what your Bible supports.

Not MY Bible. I am a GREEK.

Oh yes it does!

9 ΠΑΣ ΑΝΘΡΩΠΟΣ ΟΣΤΙΣ ΚΑΚΟΛΟΓΗΣΗ ΤΟΝ ΠΑΤΕΡΑ ΑΥΤΟΥ Η ΤΗΝ ΜΗΤΕΡΑ ΑΥΤΟΥ ΕΞΑΠΑΝΤΟΣ ΘΕΛΕΙ ΘΑΝΑΤΩΘΗ ΤΟΝ ΠΑΤΕΡΑ ΑΥΤΟΥ Η ΤΗΝ ΜΗΤΕΡΑ ΑΥΤΟΥ ΕΚΑΚΟΛΟΓΗΣΕ ΤΟ ΑΙΜΑ ΑΥΤΟΥ ΘΕΛΕΙ ΕΙΣΘΑΙ ΕΠ ΑΥΤΟΝ

ΛΕΥΙΤΙΚΟΝ - 20o Κεφάλαιο

http://www.greekbiblos.gr/levitiko_20.htm

[GreekIslandGirl]

Try reading the Bible's Liviticus Chapter 20 - Like in verse 9 "Anyone who curses their father or mother is to be put to death." That's what your Bible supports.

Many books have been written in the beautiful language of Greek (no doubt, there is a Koran translated into Greek but it doesn't make it part of Greek culture).

"Leviticus is the third of five books of the Jewish Torah or Pentateuch" and was written several thousand years ago. Do you know ANY Jewish or Christian cultures which actually put to death anyone for "cursing" to this day?

Are you suggesting that Islam has greater respect for the life of individuals? And women in particular?

Christianity has moved on, many times. Islam is fairly new historically but far more anachronistic and embedded in primeval suffering. It degenerates people and is more of a political tool.

[kimon07]

Try reading the Bible's Liviticus Chapter 20 - Like in verse 9 "Anyone who curses their father or mother is to be put to death." That's what your Bible supports.

Not MY Bible. I am a GREEK.

Oh yes it does!

9 ΠΑΣ ΑΝΘΡΩΠΟΣ ΟΣΤΙΣ ΚΑΚΟΛΟΓΗΣΗ ΤΟΝ ΠΑΤΕΡΑ ΑΥΤΟΥ Η ΤΗΝ ΜΗΤΕΡΑ ΑΥΤΟΥ ΕΞΑΠΑΝΤΟΣ ΘΕΛΕΙ ΘΑΝΑΤΩΘΗ ΤΟΝ ΠΑΤΕΡΑ ΑΥΤΟΥ Η ΤΗΝ ΜΗΤΕΡΑ ΑΥΤΟΥ ΕΚΑΚΟΛΟΓΗΣΕ ΤΟ ΑΙΜΑ ΑΥΤΟΥ ΘΕΛΕΙ ΕΙΣΘΑΙ ΕΠ ΑΥΤΟΝ

ΛΕΥΙΤΙΚΟΝ - 20o Κεφάλαιο

http://www.greekbiblos.gr/levitiko_20.htm

You don't get me do you? I meant the Bible IS NOT MY holy book. But the point of observer is irrelevant any way.