Cyprus-Forum.com

[Sotos]

How are the profits of Apple even related? Here we are discussing what products are better for the consumer... not about investing in the stock-market! Apple makes big profits because it overprices its products. If something costs them X they sell it to you for 2X. Why are you happy that Apple's shareholders are getting rich by ripping you off?

You simply fail to understand one of Apple’s core philosophies. The company does not compete on price, it competes on quality. Apple does not sell to “everybody” — it sells to those who appreciate a premium product, and who are willing to pay a premium for it. How is this ripping people off? If you want to buy an Apple product you know what you are paying for. If you don't, nobody forces you. There are plenty of cheaper, lower quality products out there for you.

I would really like Apple to sell their products at the same price as lesser quality Android tablets or smartphones. They would undoubtedly sell a lot more and increase their market share. But from Apple's perspective they are doing what is good for them and reaping all the profits anyway. They are smarter at running their business than you or me. And enough people are prepared to pay a premium to make them the most valuable company in history. No company could do that if it was ripping people off.

Are you saying that only Apple makes high quality products? Many other companies make high quality products running windows or Android and with these platforms you are not trapped with one company which can use your dependency on them to constantly milk you!

[cyprusgrump]

Rubbish.

it's like saying I can by a Merc S320 CDI for €80,000 or I can get a skoda for €15,000.

They bothe drive, get me from a to be safely and are both cars!

Buy and Ipad and a Pipo and then sell them 2 years later or even 1 year later and see if you can even sell the Pipo.

Thats the point Demon is making that you refuse to accept.

And what the hell is a Pipo anyway. My 3 year old knows what an ipad is and she can use it very well. Utube, games, scrolls screen and more.

Exactly!

You've made my point for me...

All I want to do is get from A to B... the Pipo does that perfectly...

But I'll have at least £150 in my pocket for the next two years by not buying an iPad...

And (as I made clear in my last post) there is no guarantee that I'd be any better off in two years if I bought an iPad...

Really, with all those billions of dollars spent in R & D, is the only selling point for your iPad that the resale value might be more in two years time????

Because that appears to be what both you and demon are saying...

And guess what - your 3 y/o could use an Android based tablet too! It doesn't matter if she's never heard of Pipo (or Google or Android), she's probably never heard of Skoda either yet she could still get from A to B in one with her Dad driving!

OK, you are being deliberated obstructive. Let me put it another way that maybe you will understand.

You are selling your home, do you consider your home the same as an apartment? Why do you expect to get €700k (or whatever the price is), well because you have a quality property no some apartment going for 1/7 of the price.

If you don't see it now, you are a hypocrite and should sell your place to me for 90,000E.

I'm not being obstructive nor hypocritical....

In your example of the cars, both get you from A to B...

In the case of tablet PCs both the Pipo and the iPad get me (metaphorically) from A to B...

Comparing an apartment to a villa is somewhat ridiculous though - like comparing a tablet PC to a desktop PC... Yes, technically both provide a roof over your head, etc. But you can't hold a large party in an apartment, sleep 8, use the private pool, etcetera, etcetera....

Are you still saying that the only reason for buying an Apple product is the resale value...?

[cyprusgrump]

I think you are confused grumpy old chap. The current iPad is the fourth generation and is by common consensus the best tablet on the market. In two years time it won't be obsolete. It will work just fine and people will want to buy them. Just as people are selling their iPad 2s from two years ago for around 200-250 UK pounds on ebay today. You just don't understand the thriving resale market of Apple products. Probably because there is little resale value for Android phones/tablets.

You are squirming now fanboy!

You were originally comparing the resale value of the iPad 2. As I pointed out, it is still a current product (you can buy it new on Amazon) so there is no surprise that there is a thriving second hand market as you can buy the product at a discount which is still under warranty. I suppose you could ask why (if the product is so good) that people are dumping them or upgrading them so quickly but we won't go there...

What I claimed was that in two years an iPad 2 you bought today would not be a current product and would not be in warranty and is most unlikely to fetch a reasonable resale price when the market has moved on so quickly...

The resale market that you and B25 think is so wonderful only exists because Apple release new models so quickly and fanboys like you simply have to have the latest one...

Grumpy old boy. Your spanking new Pipo has about the same specs as a second generation iPad. But with much inferior build quality and known battery and wifi problems. Specifications mean little as to how well it will actually work as a lot of the important work is done by software and the OS! You're also lumbered with Pipo's version of Jellybean which you'll have to root and flash to get rid of the Chinese bloatware if your reseller hasn't done so already. Oh and I hope you read Chinese as the manual only comes in Chinese! Good luck getting it to recognise your SD card too as this is also a known issue and good luck getting it to work with certain websites. Oh and if there are any issues then back to China with it!

As for the pictures you posted, it looks like a bog-standard Chinese no name clone. I expect it works OK, even though the battery is rubbish and you'll have to keep charging it all the time. Other common problems with these cheapo Android tablets are screen bleed and touch sensitivity. You might also want to check if Google Play works correctly and how updates are handled. Other than that, it looks like a bargain.

Yes, yes, yes.... change the record will you...?

As we have already established, your 'knowledge' of this market is somewhat shaky given that you have never owned or used an Android tablet (or Android based phone?).

The fact is that your 'knowledge' of Android based tablets has been gained by reading a few reviews on teh Interwebs... Guess what? Type 'iPad problems' into Google and you get four hundred and twenty-two million results!

Does that make iPads bad...? No.

I've used an iPad 2 - I know they are good, I love that Harbour Master game...

But unlike you my fanboy friend, I've also used and owned Android devices and know that they (for me and millions of others) do exactly the same thing for a fraction of the price...

You can find as many excellent reviews for Android tablets on the web if you try (a common theme of Android reviews is along the lines of "as good as an iPad at a fraction of the price). Finding a couple of bad reviews and repeating the 'facts' ad nauseam does nothing for your case I'm afraid...

[Demonax]

You were originally comparing the resale value of the iPad 2.

Grumpy, I merely pointed out to you that a two-year old iPad 2 is now worth around 200-250 UK pounds. As an example of the resale value of Apple products. You pay a premium for Apple quality but you can sell them on and upgrade later. Apple customers do it all the time because there is a demand for used Apple products. Whereas an Android tablet will be worthless in two year's time.

What I claimed was that in two years an iPad 2 you bought today would not be a current product and would not be in warranty and is most unlikely to fetch a reasonable resale price when the market has moved on so quickly...

I don't know what the resale price of an iPad 2 would be in two year's time. They currently sell for £329 new. But I'd expect less than half (£120-150) going by current resale prices on older iPads. For example, a first generation iPad is going (without warranty) for around £200 today and that was released in April 2010.

The resale market that you and B25 think is so wonderful only exists because Apple release new models so quickly and fanboys like you simply have to have the latest one...

Grumpy old chap, you just don't know what you are talking about. Apple has released one iPhone a year since launch. And has introduced four iPad models and the mini in two and a half years. Apple is known for NOT releasing models quickly and for making incremental changes to its product lines. That is why they hold their value so well.

As we have already established, your 'knowledge' of this market is somewhat shaky given that you have never owned or used an Android tablet (or Android based phone?).

Actually I currently own an Android handset and an iPad. So I have a good idea of their strengths and weaknesses. And I have used a Samsung Android tablet at length and a Kindle. And I prefer the iPad hardware and software.

Finding a couple of bad reviews and repeating the 'facts' ad nauseam does nothing for your case I'm afraid...

I think you'll find that criticisms of cheaper Android tablets such as poor quality control, poor displays, poor build quality, software issues, poor battery life etc are quite common. But you know that. After all I don't think you are dumb enough to actually believe that you are getting an iPad quality product at knock-down pricing. You just want to a cheaper alternative and are prepared to live with the compromises. That is fair enough. But please don't insult our intelligence by claiming you are getting an equivalent product and that you are smarter than everyone else because you have spent less. Be happy with your purchase and let us know how you get on. It's your money after all.

[cyprusgrump]

But please don't insult our intelligence by claiming you are getting an equivalent product and that you are smarter than everyone else because you have spent less.

Whereas you think you are smarter than everybody else because you have spent more!

[Demonax]

Are you saying that only Apple makes high quality products? Many other companies make high quality products running windows or Android.

Sotos, Apple sells premium products to those who are prepared to pay for it. They do not compete on price but quality. Other companies produce good quality products (Samsung, Dell, HP). But there is little real difference to the consumer between an HP or a Dell computer running Windows. Or a Samsung vs HTC phone running Android. Apple sells premium products to the consumer based around better design, ease-of use, style, build, customer service, reliability etc. And enough people are prepared to pay for that premium to make them big profits.

and with these platforms you are not trapped with one company which can use your dependency on them to constantly milk you!

Oh please. This is a nonsense argument. Amazon wants to sell you books and music through its Kindle which is basically a glorified Amazon shopping basket. While the Nexus 7 has a giant Play Store widget front and center. All companies want to tie you to their ecosystem. When you buy an app for your Android phone where do you go?

For my iPad I can buy a book from Apple or Amazon and download it to my iPad. Or if I find a 'free' copy on the Web I can transfer it without a problem. Same with films and music. I can play Amazon stored music on my iPad through their Cloud Player. As for apps, I choose not to jailbreak my device so I pay for apps which I buy from the Apple Store. But they are mostly free or cost a couple of euros and I believe developers should get something for their efforts. That is hardly milking the customer.

[Demonax]

Whereas you think you are smarter than everybody else because you have spent more!

That's just your inferiority complex showing, grumpy.

Believe it or not, I'd quite happily pay less for Apple products if they reduced their prices.

Sure it would be nice if they sold their products as 'better but costs the same'. In the end, consumers make a judgement on whether they want to pay more for a premium product. Enough people make that call. Apple make big profits and consumers are happy. There's a reason that Apple are consistently number one in terms of consumer satisfaction and reliability. In the end, grumpy old boy, you get what you pay for.

[cyprusgrump]

Whereas you think you are smarter than everybody else because you have spent more!

That's just your inferiority complex showing, grumpy.

Believe it or not, I'd quite happily pay less for Apple products if they reduced their prices.

Sure it would be nice if they sold their products as 'better but costs the same'. In the end, consumers make a judgement on whether they want to pay more for a premium product. Enough people make that call. Apple make big profits and consumers are happy. There's a reason that Apple are consistently number one in terms of consumer satisfaction and reliability. In the end, grumpy old boy, you get what you pay for.

You're absolutely right!

I'll get a top tablet at a bargain price!

[Demonax]

I'll get a top tablet at a bargain price!

Grumpy, old chap. My wife wants an iPad 4 for Xmas. If I got her a Pipo she'd smack me over the head with it.

And quite right too.

[cyprusgrump]

I'll get a top tablet at a bargain price!

Grumpy, old chap. My wife wants an iPad 4 for Xmas. If I got her a Pipo she'd smack me over the head with it.

And quite right too.

A pussy-whipped fanboy - I've heard it all now!

You'd better do as you are told fanboy....