Cyprus-Forum.com

[DT.]

Can you provide alternatives? taking into account the sensativities of both sides.

NATO

[Viewpoint]

Can you provide alternatives? taking into account the sensativities of both sides.

NATO

Your gonna have NATO do our policing and upholding the law?

[repulsewarrior]

...who do you trust vp?

i trust the people themselves.

[Viewpoint]

...who do you trust vp?

i trust the people themselves.

I do not trust GC poliçe or the GC Legal system or the GC army, you can trust them and I can trust TC poliçe and the TC Legal system and TC army....is that OK?

[repulsewarrior]

...who do you trust vp?

i trust the people themselves.

I do not trust GC poliçe or the GC Legal system or the GC army, you can trust them and I can trust TC poliçe and the TC Legal system and TC army....is that OK?

everyone is entitled to their opinion vp. it is good to question authority, frankly i would not be so trusting of any elite, at the moment it seems that the power has corrupted. i trust the people who are close to their land, and who do not see it as Turkish, or Greek, but God's, this is the Cypriot way, when you get down to the nitty gritty, isn't it?

[Oceanside50]

quite frankly, i like you have more confidence in the People, themselves. it would be nice if the Turkish Army left this island entirely, and they made it easy for those "Turkish" to return with them. as it is, i believe, left to themselves, they, those who choose as Cypriots to stay because there is a better reason, would not fear thirst, and they would not plunder or be plundered; what do i know of course, coming from a mixed village.

Very naive how do you propose to provide for safety of GCs and TCs?

develop a culture of abiding by the rule of law....begin by prosecuting all the corrupt politicians and bankers, then move to conducting an investigation of all the killings/murders of the past...very simple...all the confidence building measures cannot add up to pure and simple justice..

Who are you going to give this duty to? Who do you trust?

it usually develops on its own but as you can see both are satisfied with lawlessness....your side included Vp as well as the GC.....

[repulsewarrior]

...i would not be so quick to diss the Republic and its Judiciary. it represents a European Standard, and it is not in default, it is respected by many other Judicial systems, including, Canada, and the U.S.

of course we want to believe that there is room for improvement, the incidence of even one scandal is too many, but in truth, by many different standards, Cyprus, the Republic of Cyprus, that is, is no more or less corrupt than most.

...indeed, there is no Greek Constituency, the good works of the Turkish Constituency have none to compare, there is no superior, or to be represented with (as in Cypriot Constituencies) in equality. vp, in that sense is right, as GCs or TCs, who, or what, defends the Universal Principals where we perhaps as Persons, but most certainly as Individuals, stand in Unity? what is the Republic, if without other Persons it represents "Greeks"? why can't "Greeks" represent themselves, as Greeks and why should it matter for that matter, at a Federal Level, the Greekness or the Turkishness of an Individual? what of Freedom, a strength which comes from defending each other; what is wrong with Liberty within (and apart, as in another level of government, self-representation as Persons), so that this diversity is strengthened as well as sustained.

if we assume that a BBF exists, then there would be a Federal Government, and there will exist Cypriot Constituencies, each with a Judicial System as well. there is security enough in such a balance for the rights of people as Persons, and the rights of people as Individuals; a system like Canada comes to mind, which is both Bicommunal, Federal, and Bizonal.

example, garbage as a failing, institutionally; a Federal Government can define, and identify such instances, a standard that is acceptable to all Cypriots, as Cypriots, the service as Sanitation would be the concern of the Constituency (if not its communities, as communities sustaining themselves), it has a standard to meet or to excel; competition in this case is a natural component toward growth, so too the willingness for social-exchange, a much wider array of choices for Cypriots to improve themselves, in any case.

...it is not so easy to hide in a "blame game" pointing fingers where Cyprus does not exist, vp, you should not be worried, if as if i suggest, there are many flags flying in Cyprus, but one the Cypriot Flag, which always flies higher.

[zan]

yes Zan, I do, as a Cypriot; i want to have Turkey as an ally, not as a "Greek"/"Turk", or by any other name but, Cypriot.

it is the island that counts, what is "Greek" about it or "Turkish" is a selfish thought, at the moment, because the Cypriot Flag does not fly higher.

i say, join me, say, "i love Cyprus, i love Cyprus first".

you, you Zan, i remember, and i believe your heart swells with love that is giving. have the Grace to remind readers that the scum we are talking about enjoy their Liberty so long as the Freedom the rest of us crave for remains impotent, now divided. beware the stupid Greek, it is a fear worth having, i understand that, but there is no point in denying the fact that we all live in fear of the stupid Turk; don't you think the harm that has been done to me, that as a Greek, i am as afraid, of the stupid Greek, as you? it is about fifty years now that a sense close to the land has been removed from our grasp, with "this" thinking, while "this" must stop, and as the dwellers of the island, now, to overcome and what seems complete, (of course, exists (as a 'fait accomplis') in 1983,) beyond 1974, here we are, that's to say, Cypriots in the world of "Greeks" and "Turks" and "Brits" and "Russians" and let's not forget the Yanks, the EU, the UN, and the "Jews" . Sovereignty, as Property, i imagine is an active topic of conversation between those who lead their countries, by having a Bureaucracy well founded. and in essence, having one, Turkey believes she was cheated, with the Treaty of Lausanne, while her fight with Great Britain continues, the rest of "us", are treated accordingly. times have changed, though. so too, Turkey with her revolution, and what remains to be completed from it, beyond what is "Turkish" and as a State. Erdogan is a great leader, anything can happen, even a BBF in Turkey itself. indeed, it would be great if a Treaty of Mutual Defense could be drawn up in a manner where the Mediterranean is more secure, as allies because they have found a way to move all of Mankind forward, i would suggest forward thinking if it included preparedness for (environmental/maritime) disasters, between Cyprus and Turkey, (as well as other allies); and Turkey should lead that. indeed, demand a Greek Constituency to represent itself as do Turkish Cypriots (if you are for Cypriots), i hope that Turkey does the same, how else to free the Federal Government from a bias seen, to make it better, a Republic which exists to represent its Citizens in a very simple manner, without discrimination, or distinction, (even with demographics which at present represent an overwhelming majority as Persons,) Individuals, equal.

...yes, quite right, "this is "Turkish" garbage", "this is "Greek" garbage", adds to the debate (in Cyprus, it is still the "Greeks" who win (planning dear Zan, "you" guys have not planned (as well)). but garbage is what garbage is, having it, let alone ignoring it is just plain Ignorant; makes my blood boil when the island is advertised (read: sold) as a place of pristine untouched beauty, and from a Cypriot standpoint ("Greek", or not), i am glad at least that this info (i mean the right here and now) is available to me (thanks to bill, the forum admins., et al.).

quite frankly, i like you have more confidence in the People, themselves. it would be nice if the Turkish Army left this island entirely, and they made it easy for those "Turkish" to return with them. as it is, i believe, left to themselves, they, those who choose as Cypriots to stay because there is a better reason, would not fear thirst, and they would not plunder or be plundered; what do i know of course, coming from a mixed village.

We both WANT, RW but your "Cypriot" died in 1964. We could have had that identity but what you keep referring to is a fictional character that never was allowed to evolve. There were plenty like you that wanted the "Turks" to leave then and now we have the same accusations wth some of us accepted as "Cypriot" being told that we should turn on our brothers. "Let them leave and we can call ourselves " Cypriot"'. Same call for ENOSIS. FEET FIRMLY ON THE GROUND RW. There are Turks and there are Greeks, perfect engredients for future "Cypriots" but for now, must be cultivated in separate fields. If they help each other with the harvest, then one day...................................

[zan]

...i would not be so quick to diss the Republic and its Judiciary. it represents a European Standard, and it is not in default, it is respected by many other Judicial systems, including, Canada, and the U.S.

of course we want to believe that there is room for improvement, the incidence of even one scandal is too many, but in truth, by many different standards, Cyprus, the Republic of Cyprus, that is, is no more or less corrupt than most.

...indeed, there is no Greek Constituency, the good works of the Turkish Constituency have none to compare, there is no superior, or to be represented with (as in Cypriot Constituencies) in equality. vp, in that sense is right, as GCs or TCs, who, or what, defends the Universal Principals where we perhaps as Persons, but most certainly as Individuals, stand in Unity? what is the Republic, if without other Persons it represents "Greeks"? why can't "Greeks" represent themselves, as Greeks and why should it matter for that matter, at a Federal Level, the Greekness or the Turkishness of an Individual? what of Freedom, a strength which comes from defending each other; what is wrong with Liberty within (and apart, as in another level of government, self-representation as Persons), so that this diversity is strengthened as well as sustained.

if we assume that a BBF exists, then there would be a Federal Government, and there will exist Cypriot Constituencies, each with a Judicial System as well. there is security enough in such a balance for the rights of people as Persons, and the rights of people as Individuals; a system like Canada comes to mind, which is both Bicommunal, Federal, and Bizonal.

example, garbage as a failing, institutionally; a Federal Government can define, and identify such instances, a standard that is acceptable to all Cypriots, as Cypriots, the service as Sanitation would be the concern of the Constituency (if not its communities, as communities sustaining themselves), it has a standard to meet or to excel; competition in this case is a natural component toward growth, so too the willingness for social-exchange, a much wider array of choices for Cypriots to improve themselves, in any case.

...it is not so easy to hide in a "blame game" pointing fingers where Cyprus does not exist, vp, you should not be worried, if as if i suggest, there are many flags flying in Cyprus, but one the Cypriot Flag, which always flies higher.

Apart from us being allowed to dispose of our own shit, what if there were an important agreement to be had with say......Russia and Putin said, "I am not having that Turkish scum involved in this"........... Do you think there would be a GCS superhero that stood up to Putin? Or would the TCs get the blame, again, just for being Turkish. Would we have mass conversions of religion, again, so that we can trade with Christian, Greek friendly allies? You being the majority and all! Visa versa of course. Who is going to promote this "Cypriot"?

[repulsewarrior]

...that is one stretch of an assumption, dude; not a very good example. in any case as far as Cypriot goes, they are European, and as Cypriots, judged accordingly.

as "Greeks", if there is a "Greek" Constituency, they can speak for themselves, if it meets the standards as Cypriots, Cypriots set for themselves; and if they snag a deal for themselves, that seems someway exclusive, so be it if it causes controversy, provided that it is Cypriot, which does not necessarily mean a benefit the other Constituencies are entitled to because a single Constituency took the initiative to find something that benefits themselves: how about Turkey providing free travel to those Turkey feels are "Turkish" enough (no "Greeks" need apply), not very tasteful, possible, but i suggest as possible as "Turks" in Cyprus, like "Greeks" who will not necessarily be identified by their ethnic origin, as such. Cypriots, if they are prepared to adapt to a changing demographic, they have to be prepared to live within a Europe, and a Middle East, as well as an Africa, which is mobile, and where Cyprus regains its position in World History, as an important crossroad.

...you don't help yourself, or Cyprus, if, you fly other flags higher, or, you deny that it is important for a Cypriot flag to exist.