Cyprus-Forum.com

[repulsewarrior]

...isn't it possible that Nations as States adapt: look at the USA.

...isn't it possible that as Human Beings, we change our state of minds: look at WW1, look at the Information Age.

...as for mosaics, as opposed to melting pots: look at Asia; any of the Countries there.

...so Europe never had a Muslim Face: times change, we don't live in isolation anymore; and if a German wishes to become a Greek, why not? why not a Black man or one from a war torn country like Afghanistan. indeed, if they apply and enter Legally this is not in dispute, but illegals by their sheer numbers, now over years, cannot be ignored, nor the attraction of a European way of life, and it may be possible to deter their arrivals if Europe as a body detains them, away from Greece where they risk harm with the tensions Greeks suffer themselves these days, treated humanely, but strictly, as a European problem, clearly this gives an incentive to the forces at the border (anywhere in Europe) to redouble their efforts.

...another example where the Values of Europeans (read (if you like): the Values of "that" Greece which spawned them) need a definition based on their commitment to Universal Values. Maybe, the Greeks of today, wily as they are in distress will choose the way, once again. one hopes, from this corruption which rots no more grow new seeds, in the good earth below; this connection to Language may click, Greeks may become as they were that long time ago, facilitators of social-exchange, Greeks may choose to become transparent to many other Languages, without barriers, extrovert, to serve these Global partners, as Greeks to demonstrate their value and to demonstrate the power Greeks have toward communication; in the lingua franca, wake up reh, Greek is near extinction, it has to be useful to "others" to survive, others have to love Greece/"Greece" too.

[kurupetos]

...another example where the Values of Europeans (read (if you like): the Values of "that" Greece which spawned them) need a definition based on their commitment to Universal Values. Maybe, the Greeks of today, wily as they are in distress will choose the way, once again. one hopes, from this corruption which rots no more grow new seeds, in the good earth below; this connection to Language may click, Greeks may become as they were that long time ago, facilitators of social-exchange, Greeks may choose to become transparent to many other Languages, without barriers, extrovert, to serve these Global partners, as Greeks to demonstrate their value and to demonstrate the power Greeks have toward communication; in the lingua franca, wake up reh, Greek is near extinction, it has to be useful to "others" to survive, others have to love Greece/"Greece" too.

RW your last paragraph is interesting although incorrect, because Greeks were never 'facilitators of social-exchange'. Have you never heard of 'Non-Greeks are barbarians'?

Who are the 'Global partners'? ...and why do you believe 'Greek is near extinction'?

[MGCN]

(b) left him/her to perish.

Hi Kurupetos,

What do you mean by this? Assuming that the individual is an illegal then they are not going to get state handouts as they are not registered in the system etc. You mentioned deportation as an option so for those that do not choose this what do you propose?

I thought it was obvious. What happens if someone doesn't eat and doesn't receive medical aid? Anyone trying to provide these to illegal immigrants should be arrested.

Did you see my previous post?

Assuming illegals are arrested then the state is obliged to support them, at least pending forced deportation, is that not an answer to your question about the EU law?

[repulsewarrior]

...another example where the Values of Europeans (read (if you like): the Values of "that" Greece which spawned them) need a definition based on their commitment to Universal Values. Maybe, the Greeks of today, wily as they are in distress will choose the way, once again. one hopes, from this corruption which rots no more grow new seeds, in the good earth below; this connection to Language may click, Greeks may become as they were that long time ago, facilitators of social-exchange, Greeks may choose to become transparent to many other Languages, without barriers, extrovert, to serve these Global partners, as Greeks to demonstrate their value and to demonstrate the power Greeks have toward communication; in the lingua franca, wake up reh, Greek is near extinction, it has to be useful to "others" to survive, others have to love Greece/"Greece" too.

RW your last paragraph is interesting although incorrect, because Greeks were never 'facilitators of social-exchange'. Have you never heard of 'Non-Greeks are barbarians'?

Who are the 'Global partners'? ...and why do you believe 'Greek is near extinction'?

...like English today, "then", Greek was the language to learn if one was to trade; indeed, in this respect, those who were ignorant of "Greek" custom were Barbarians.

90% of the world's population is not English (as a mother-tongue), and yet 90% speak it. the great powers of the Information Age will be measured by the bits and bytes they can produce. i propose that some well situated Countries (or People) can take a word (in English, e.g.), and translate it many times over; do you see my point?

...the world's ethnosphere is shrinking at a faster rate than it's ecosphere; the threats of extinction for many many languages is imminent, Greek is no exception, unless as a Language, it is or will be used by "others". my proposal suggests that the function of language can be Modernised, although it requires a shift in thinking where there is a willingness to facilitate inclusiveness with learning a language, and where a Nation (read: State) engages to demonstrate this ability, globally.

[repulsewarrior]

Sunday, June 20, 2010

Quebec Libre
1 Nov/07, at Montreal
copyright, editorial credit when copied
letter, public presentation

Commission Bouchard-Taylor
To Whom It May Concern


Table of Contents:
1. Introduction
2. Our advantages, linguistically
3. Language as a tool
4. French-English/Other Languages, accomadation in our metropolitain centers
5. The regional spheres
6. Integration, use of the Official Language
7. Conclusion

…the presentation will follow, complete at least one week before the audience, for your consideration.


1. Introduction

In my Quebec, Language would be a regional Jurisdiction, and our Language would unite us..

In my Quebec each region would nurture their own needs, in the promotion of our rich and diverse Patrimony, while respecting the norms defined in legislation that our National Assembly enacts..

In my Quebec, industry, and government work to be as inclusive as possible, in terms of their language usage, so that they can communicate globally, in as many languages possible, to ninety percent of the world's population who have a mother tongue other than English.

In my Quebec, Quebecers would take the challange in this competitive world to facilitate exchange, because we are the fortunate to live in the freest country in the world.

In my Quebec, our love for language would unite us.

2. Our advantages, linguistically

Because of our history, passing the ages of the Magna Carta, and the French Revolution, both intimately, our Custom, our Rule of Law is refined and its well earned esteem has provided us flawless rulings in two languages for these few years, since the existance of Quebec, and the Canadian State. The tolerance which we have provided ourselves wthin our own ‘Quiet Revolution’ has resulted in strong educational, and/or economic centers in the regions and a cosmopolitain city with a rich history, a jewel amongst cities for the service it can provide. And I hope, that Montreal is the downtown core, of a megalopolis spanning from Windsor through to Toronto and Ottawa and down to Boston New York and Washington, imaginably close in time to a futurist, especially with Global Warming introduced as its accelerant. In this regard, I suggest to you that Spanish is the greatest “threat”, to French spoken well, in North America.

But a threat does not require an adversarial approach. Rather, it requires us to embrace the future, an in so doing choosing to apply these forces in a manner where practically we profit the most.

In the Modern Age communication was key. Quebec is a world leader in communication, we all know that. In the Information Age bits and bytes, the processing of them is key. We must compete with the next door neighbour, a behomoth of this Age at the advent. Our advantage is the mosaic that is a part of our Urban Culture, and it should be harnessed in a manner where words from other languages are seamlessly translated to French, as our French can be translated seamlessly to English.

Think, in this manner, in Quebec, one byte can compound to tens, or hundreds of bytes.

3. Language as a tool

I imagine a German businessman forty years from today choosing to live in Quebec because his language needs can be accomadated. By learning French, our French here in Quebec, he knows that the linguistic tools of this Official Language provides from it, translation in Japanese, as well as a myriad of other languages. He enjoys speaking French and he especially likes visiting this whole Province because of its natural beauty and the warmth people can extend to him without a language barrier.

4. French-English/Other Languages, accomadation in our metropolitain centers

I imagine a young Quebecer, a francophone by origin looking at the emergancy sign in this city’s Metro. On one side of the pictogram his language in bold, and twice as large, serving the seeing impaired as well, and on the other side several languages, along with English. I imagine he dreams of traveling, and he practices these words to remember them.

I imagine signage in French only, but advertising in the shops and on their windows in any language that will draw their customers to their wares.

I imagine schools which receive their subsidy from government for educating in French, as well as another language. Our English schools, I hope in this regard, will sustain themselves, with an ever growing population, their demographical significance will wane.

I imagine that in a world context all urban people are functional in English. By accomadating the vast majority of our immigrants, so that their languages are sustained, they will want to adapt, taking the choice to have their ‘Official Language’ at their core, because it provides for them even greater advantages.

5. The regional spheres

I imagine with a regional focus on our Language, Universities will apply themselves to this question in a manner where our understanding of our heritage is enriched because its diversity, as an identity which is closer to the land, will be not only sustained, but promoted.

There are many regions in Quebec. Each is distinctive. We risk loosing the richness of the words and the constructs they make: like song, poetry, fable; because not enough is done to integrate this knowledge in the pedagological base. But beyond the homogeneity of a language spoken well, and the pride in that, is the seeping caldron of its culture, chunks in a stew, not just a broth, to which I suggest we focus our own energies, in our own way.

6. Integration, use of the Official Language

To be accomodating to others, we will have to be accomodating to ourselves as well. This diversity in identity will promote a closness to the whole as well, in that all its citizens can have an identity in speaking their French well, while in exchange having their unique distinctions, they have as Persons a culture, their own history, in community, as a region.

7. Conclusion

In accomadating ourselves, in this manner, a new approach is offered to Language and its usage, as well as allowing citizens in rural areas an opportunity to revive the unique qualities they attach to their land, urban centers will grow, having the greatest number of choices for themselves.

...found this thought it was worth sharing.

[kurupetos]

(b) left him/her to perish.

Hi Kurupetos,

What do you mean by this? Assuming that the individual is an illegal then they are not going to get state handouts as they are not registered in the system etc. You mentioned deportation as an option so for those that do not choose this what do you propose?

I thought it was obvious. What happens if someone doesn't eat and doesn't receive medical aid? Anyone trying to provide these to illegal immigrants should be arrested.

Did you see my previous post?

Assuming illegals are arrested then the state is obliged to support them, at least pending forced deportation, is that not an answer to your question about the EU law?

I will ask again, what EU law?

[kurupetos]

...another example where the Values of Europeans (read (if you like): the Values of "that" Greece which spawned them) need a definition based on their commitment to Universal Values. Maybe, the Greeks of today, wily as they are in distress will choose the way, once again. one hopes, from this corruption which rots no more grow new seeds, in the good earth below; this connection to Language may click, Greeks may become as they were that long time ago, facilitators of social-exchange, Greeks may choose to become transparent to many other Languages, without barriers, extrovert, to serve these Global partners, as Greeks to demonstrate their value and to demonstrate the power Greeks have toward communication; in the lingua franca, wake up reh, Greek is near extinction, it has to be useful to "others" to survive, others have to love Greece/"Greece" too.

RW your last paragraph is interesting although incorrect, because Greeks were never 'facilitators of social-exchange'. Have you never heard of 'Non-Greeks are barbarians'?

Who are the 'Global partners'? ...and why do you believe 'Greek is near extinction'?

...like English today, "then", Greek was the language to learn if one was to trade; indeed, in this respect, those who were ignorant of "Greek" custom were Barbarians.

90% of the world's population is not English (as a mother-tongue), and yet 90% speak it. the great powers of the Information Age will be measured by the bits and bytes they can produce. i propose that some well situated Countries (or People) can take a word (in English, e.g.), and translate it many times over; do you see my point?

...the world's ethnosphere is shrinking at a faster rate than it's ecosphere; the threats of extinction for many many languages is imminent, Greek is no exception, unless as a Language, it is or will be used by "others". my proposal suggests that the function of language can be Modernised, although it requires a shift in thinking where there is a willingness to facilitate inclusiveness with learning a language, and where a Nation (read: State) engages to demonstrate this ability, globally.

It was not just the language, it was the quality of culture in general. Greeks were far more superior than non-Greeks.

English is useful as a trade language, but this has nothing to do with multiculturalism. No I don't see your point.

I do not see Greek becoming extinct. Again I don't see your point. Anyway, my original point had nothing to do with language.

[MGCN]

(b) left him/her to perish.

Hi Kurupetos,

What do you mean by this? Assuming that the individual is an illegal then they are not going to get state handouts as they are not registered in the system etc. You mentioned deportation as an option so for those that do not choose this what do you propose?

I thought it was obvious. What happens if someone doesn't eat and doesn't receive medical aid? Anyone trying to provide these to illegal immigrants should be arrested.

Did you see my previous post?

Assuming illegals are arrested then the state is obliged to support them, at least pending forced deportation, is that not an answer to your question about the EU law?

I will ask again, what EU law?

Do you think that it is acceptable for an EU state to detain individuals without providing food and/or medical aid? That is not a prison but a concentration camp and I am pretty sure that EU Human Rights law precludes such things.

You are advocating that illegals should be given a choice deportation or perish - if not in detention they will turn to crime to survive and then when in detention the state must provide, if the state does not it has will have broken the Human Right Law (and common decency) and will be rightly condemned for it.

[repulsewarrior]

...but it is about language isn't it? it is about love, what loving you demonstrate with its expression, not as an Individual, but as a Person. it is about an appreciation, how one finds pleasure in it, and how that pleasure effects others known and unknown with a voice that's formed and exchanged.

is it all about "Greekness" (by birth related to geography), rather than being Greek? is this the way, if seriously, your gratitude for their thinking, the Ancients, exists? is it normal for a Greek anywhere around the world, to place "strangers" in the front of the church? is it normal for Greeks to receive warmly those who they welcome to their home? what about the beggar, does a Greek show Grace to them? and what of "Greekness" to those living, born and raised in Turkey as Greeks, does being Greek mean anything less to them? are the Greeks of Greece a law unto themselves, that their "Greekness" denies a value to being Greek?

...you think somehow children will learn Greek forever, or that being Greek will always be the choice they'll make. in Quebec, and i imagine many other Catholic states, Greek and Latin were obligatory, then, students were obliged to learn at least one, they chose, and now only some schools have it available as an elective: fact. the population of this earth expands, are Greeks amazingly growing faster?

do the math, read, and think more broadly, about ethnospheres, it is for the sake of Humanity, as a Greek i imagine you care as a Citizen of the World.

...it is about Imperialism, in a sense, "English", is not about multiculturalism indeed, but as you say, when it comes to "trade" who needs any (other) language; you savvy? there were many rivers and streams, the few left remain polluted, heading toward extinction, now at least, not unknown; e.g.

[Cleopatra]

There are no European countries genuinely open to illegal immigrants or even a great influx of legal immigrants, especially if they are from countries they don't think of so well. As for Greece, even Greeks are trying to leave if they can. There simply isn't the infrastructure to handle illegal immigrants. If you notice, the shiploads that try to get to Italy are just sent back. I can't see Turkey welcoming them with open arms either, they just pass them on.
If you read around though you'll soon find out that things are not diffrent in the east. Immigrant workers are far worse off in Dubai for instance, from what I've read over and over again. There's plenty of bad, including slavery, outside Europe. Last I heard it's never been popular to be a christian in a muslim country. Egyptian christians are always complaining. So, before pointing the finger at Europe, which sure could improve, and the attitude of individual Europeans, you might want to consider how bad it is in most places.
Of course that poor guy wants to move on to another european country. everyone wants to go where there are more opportunities and money. and if he were in britain, he'd be 'forced' to learn english, or in france or germany, he'd also have to learn the language.