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The Felix Baumgartner jump.

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Re: The Felix Baumgartner jump.

Postby cyprusgrump » Fri Oct 19, 2012 3:58 pm

Get Real! wrote:
cyprusgrump wrote:
Get Real! wrote:To cut a long story short, by the time a car drives up a mountain whatever is in that bottle will attain whatever temperature is in its surroundings so I don’t expect anything to happen to it. It’s a very sudden change in temperature that could cause a bloating or the opposite.


No, it doesn't matter how fast or slow the change of temperature is (assuming the bottle is 100% sealed).

Likewise, it doesn't matter how quickly you drive up the mountain (or fly up it) the effect of the decrease in pressure would be the same...

Air pressure must be directly proportional to air temperature… if it works for liquids and gasses then I see no reason why it shouldn’t apply for air.

But anyway, one can easily simulate this by placing a sealed empty water bottle in the freezer to see what happens. This of course would be a very sudden change and should have the best chances at some kind of effect.


This is only true if you keep the volume constant...

...an increase in temperature (which is a measure of the activity and movement of atoms and molecules) produces a corresponding increase in pressure (which is a measure of the force of the atoms and molecules), if the volume of the air is held constant.

It does not work that way in the atmosphere, as the atmosphere is not a constant volume. An increase in temperature in a high pressure area as it is warmed by the sun causes expansion of the area both horizontally and vertically, thereby resulting in only a minor increase in pressure. However, the pressure increase is measurable, because the atmospheric volume cannot respond immediately to the increase in temperature (that's a lot of air to move).


As I said earlier, I would have expected the increase in altitude to result in an expansion of the container... but I guess there is a (small) chance that some bizarre weather condition combination could result in the container being crushed.
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Re: The Felix Baumgartner jump.

Postby Get Real! » Fri Oct 19, 2012 4:04 pm

cyprusgrump wrote:This is only true if you keep the volume constant...

Well duh! Isn't the water bottle a constant volume? :roll:
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Re: The Felix Baumgartner jump.

Postby cyprusgrump » Fri Oct 19, 2012 4:11 pm

Get Real! wrote:
cyprusgrump wrote:This is only true if you keep the volume constant...

Well duh! Isn't the water bottle a constant volume? :roll:


Well yes...

But the atmosphere surrounding it isn't is it...?

So it is possible that you could have a combination of cooling (which would make the air in the bottle contract) without a resulting decrease in atmospheric pressure (which would make the bottle expand)...
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Re: The Felix Baumgartner jump.

Postby bill cobbett » Fri Oct 19, 2012 4:11 pm

Get Real! wrote:
cyprusgrump wrote:
Get Real! wrote:To cut a long story short, by the time a car drives up a mountain whatever is in that bottle will attain whatever temperature is in its surroundings so I don’t expect anything to happen to it. It’s a very sudden change in temperature that could cause a bloating or the opposite.


No, it doesn't matter how fast or slow the change of temperature is (assuming the bottle is 100% sealed).

Likewise, it doesn't matter how quickly you drive up the mountain (or fly up it) the effect of the decrease in pressure would be the same...

Air pressure must be directly proportional to air temperature… if it works for liquids and gasses then I see no reason why it shouldn’t apply for air.

But anyway, one can easily simulate this by placing a sealed empty water bottle in the freezer to see what happens. This of course would be a very sudden change and should have the best chances at some kind of effect.


Our dear GR... Your knowledge of simple physical processes really is woefully lamentable... air pressure is inversely proportional to altitude. A simple way of seeing this ... when you're standing on the beach, dipping your toe in the water somewhere in CY you have a lot of atmosphere above you, so you have a lot of air pressure pressing down on you. Now take a drive up to the top of Troodos, a few thousand feet higher and you'll have less atmosphere above you and therefore less air pressure pressing down on you.

The drop in temperature as you drive up is related but is a consequence of the drop in air density cos as you drive up in to the mountains there's less air density up there and as temperature is a measure of the excitation of particles, the less of them there are, the lower the temperature.

So may we suggest another experiment please to contribute to Science... get in to the freezer along with your bottle.
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Re: The Felix Baumgartner jump.

Postby kurupetos » Fri Oct 19, 2012 4:14 pm

Last edited by kurupetos on Fri Oct 19, 2012 4:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The Felix Baumgartner jump.

Postby Get Real! » Fri Oct 19, 2012 4:15 pm

cyprusgrump wrote:
Get Real! wrote:
cyprusgrump wrote:This is only true if you keep the volume constant...

Well duh! Isn't the water bottle a constant volume? :roll:


Well yes...

But the atmosphere surrounding it isn't is it...?

So it is possible that you could have a combination of cooling (which would make the air in the bottle contract) without a resulting decrease in atmospheric pressure (which would make the bottle expand)...

Air pressure at the top of a mountain will ALWAYS be lower than that at sea level! :roll:

I'm outta here! I think you should all repeat Science 1A again! :roll:
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Re: The Felix Baumgartner jump.

Postby kurupetos » Fri Oct 19, 2012 4:16 pm

Get Real! wrote:
cyprusgrump wrote:
Get Real! wrote:
cyprusgrump wrote:This is only true if you keep the volume constant...

Well duh! Isn't the water bottle a constant volume? :roll:


Well yes...

But the atmosphere surrounding it isn't is it...?

So it is possible that you could have a combination of cooling (which would make the air in the bottle contract) without a resulting decrease in atmospheric pressure (which would make the bottle expand)...

Air pressure at the top of a mountain will ALWAYS be lower than that at sea level! :roll:

I'm outta here! I think you should all repeat Science 1A again! :roll:

That's ES module. :lol:
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Re: The Felix Baumgartner jump.

Postby Get Real! » Fri Oct 19, 2012 4:19 pm

bill cobbett wrote:Our dear GR... Your knowledge of simple physical processes really is woefully lamentable... air pressure is inversely proportional to altitude.

And what is altitude directly proportional to young Cobbet? :lol:

The higher up you go the colder it gets ya? :lol:

Seriously.... you guys need to go back to primary school! :lol:
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Re: The Felix Baumgartner jump.

Postby Get Real! » Fri Oct 19, 2012 4:23 pm

bill cobbett wrote:So may we suggest another experiment please to contribute to Science... get in to the freezer along with your bottle.

And since you like Science experiments young Cobbet… if you put that bottle up your bum I’ll wager it’ll not only change shape but colour! :lol:

That's TWO effects in one experiment! :lol:
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Re: The Felix Baumgartner jump.

Postby Get Real! » Fri Oct 19, 2012 4:30 pm

:lol: Oh my tummy...
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