Cyprus-Forum.com

[bill cobbett]

The problem is each side knows exactly what the latter wants, we're just disillusioned with what can be deemed acceptable to both parties.

GC's want TC's to integrate themselves back into the RoC and are willing to provide provisional measures to accommodate. Whilst TC's want a confederation (although we call it a federation) and will offer to hand back territory to reduce the size of the TC statelet. Neither is acceptable hence the situation we are in. TC's continue to live off handouts from Turkey whilst the GC's wait for a shift in regional dynamics so they can crush the rodent Turkish remnants for once and for good.

Yeah, pretty much a fair assessment.

Welcome back Umit.

[Piratis]

The problem is each side knows exactly what the latter wants, we're just disillusioned with what can be deemed acceptable to both parties.

GC's want TC's to integrate themselves back into the RoC and are willing to provide provisional measures to accommodate. Whilst TC's want a confederation (although we call it a federation) and will offer to hand back territory to reduce the size of the TC statelet. Neither is acceptable hence the situation we are in. TC's continue to live off handouts from Turkey whilst the GC's wait for a shift in regional dynamics so they can crush the rodent Turkish remnants for once and for good.

I partly agree. I agree with what you said about what GCs and TCs want. Beyond that if we wait hoping for a "shift in regional dynamics ", we do so because there is nothing else to do. Our options today are (1) wait, (2) accept something like Annan plan. Since Annan plan (or something similar) is actually worst than what we already have, then "waiting" becomes the only real option for us.

If TCs accepted a real federation with land shared proportionally and with component states having control of their internal affairs (police, education, healthcare etc) but at the same time having a central government elected democratically by the whole population (one person - one vote, but requiring a say 20% TC participation) which would deal with things like economy, foreign affairs etc then a solution could be agreed.

The above is really the max compromise we can do. Anything worst than that would be rejected in a referendum by the people. If that is not good enough for TCs then negotiations are really a waste of time. And then what other option do we have except waiting for a "shift in regional dynamics "?

[Viewpoint]

The problem is each side knows exactly what the latter wants, we're just disillusioned with what can be deemed acceptable to both parties.

GC's want TC's to integrate themselves back into the RoC and are willing to provide provisional measures to accommodate. Whilst TC's want a confederation (although we call it a federation) and will offer to hand back territory to reduce the size of the TC statelet. Neither is acceptable hence the situation we are in. TC's continue to live off handouts from Turkey whilst the GC's wait for a shift in regional dynamics so they can crush the rodent Turkish remnants for once and for good.

I partly agree. I agree with what you said about what GCs and TCs want. Beyond that if we wait hoping for a "shift in regional dynamics ", we do so because there is nothing else to do. Our options today are (1) wait, (2) accept something like Annan plan. Since Annan plan (or something similar) is actually worst than what we already have, then "waiting" becomes the only real option for us.

If TCs accepted a real federation with land shared proportionally and with component states having control of their internal affairs (police, education, healthcare etc) but at the same time having a central government elected democratically by the whole population (one person - one vote, but requiring a say 20% TC participation) which would deal with things like economy, foreign affairs etc then a solution could be agreed.

The above is really the max compromise we can do. Anything worst than that would be rejected in a referendum by the people. If that is not good enough for TCs then negotiations are really a waste of time. And then what other option do we have except waiting for a "shift in regional dynamics "?

You can wait but always factor into your calculations that the shift can also go the other way.

[loyalcypriot10]

Why are Cypriots so stupid and stubborn? All solutions will involve huge losses and injustices to both sides. Meanwhile, Cypriots are wasting their lives and resources on waiting for ideal solutions that can never be achieved.Had we accepted Annan Plan Cyprus would now be a much more wealthy and friendly place . The offshore resources would be exploited for the benefit of its people rather than outsiders. Famagusta would , once again, have been a thriving tourist resort .Omorfu would be thriving with its citrus products.
One last thing ; you racists and losers would be redundant.

[umit07]

Hi again everyone

TC's have had administrative bodies and organisations such as the "Nicosia Turkish Municipality" (founded in 1958) and "Turkish Cypriot Chamber of Commerce" long before the inception of the Republic. Both Cypriot communities have been effectively governing their own affairs long before 1974. The establishment of the RoC effectively cemented this segregation, to ask TC's to all of a sudden drop all this and reunite under the terms offered by GC's is something I don't see happening.

[umit07]

You can wait but always factor into your calculations that the shift can also go the other way.

Yes VP things can change both ways. But the bitter truth is that any permanent solution will have to be approved by the RoC, i.e; they will have to relinquish territory. The principles of International Law are on their side, the RoC is recognised as the only sovereign over the whole island. TC's are seen as a minority community and under current norms we can only demand self determination on the basis of our community being subjected to genocide. It is important to note that the ICC (international Criminal Court) via the Rome statute has a very wide definition for the term genocide.

Article 6 of the Rome statute

Article 6: Genocide

For the purpose of this Statute, "genocide" means any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such:

(a) Killing members of the group;

(b) Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;

(c) Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part;

(d) Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group;

(e) Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group.

[B25]

You mean a bit like what the turks did to the Armenians, what they are trying to do to the Kurds and what they are doing to the GC population in Cyprus.

Yeah, OK, go for it, lets see how far you get. Bloody joke this. You need to by taking your one motherland to the courts for it is she that is about to annihilatee the poor poor so poor TCs.

What an ass.

[Viewpoint]

You can wait but always factor into your calculations that the shift can also go the other way.

Yes VP things can change both ways. But the bitter truth is that any permanent solution will have to be approved by the RoC, i.e; they will have to relinquish territory. The principles of International Law are on their side, the RoC is recognised as the only sovereign over the whole island. TC's are seen as a minority community and under current norms we can only demand self determination on the basis of our community being subjected to genocide. It is important to note that the ICC (international Criminal Court) via the Rome statute has a very wide definition for the term genocide.

Article 6 of the Rome statute

Article 6: Genocide

For the purpose of this Statute, "genocide" means any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such:

(a) Killing members of the group;

(b) Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;

(c) Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part;

(d) Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group;

(e) Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group.

All water under the bridge Ümit the breaking point happened in 1974, the fact that we are partners in the "RoC" is enough to ensure that we have to be taken seriously if any solution is to be found. People like Piratis are preparing for war just as was the case back in the 1950/60s but the miscaluculated and the swing of power went against them resulting in land loss of 37%. Now who knows what the future holds and how the pendulum of power will swing maybe it will go in our favour and the GCs will lose everything due to their greed and despot approach to sharing this island and wanting to force us into minority status on a Greek island.

[Get Real!]

TC's are seen as a minority community and under current norms we can only demand self determination on the basis of our community being subjected to genocide.

The right of self-determination is that of countries or “peoples” as the UN refers to them, but when it comes to the rights of ethnic groups such as the Turkish Cypriots, then the appropriate charter is that of the…

”Declaration on the Rights of Persons Belonging to National or Ethnic, Religious and Linguistic Minorities”

http://www2.ohchr.org/english/law/minorities.htm

It is important to note that the ICC (international Criminal Court) via the Rome statute has a very wide definition for the term genocide.

Article 6 of the Rome statute

Article 6: Genocide

For the purpose of this Statute, "genocide" means any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such:

(a) Killing members of the group;

(b) Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;

(c) Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part;

(d) Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group;

(e) Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group.

It's very funny that you see signs of genocide during the years 1963 to 1967 yet are oblivious to the REAL genocide that took place in Cyprus for which I provide evidence here...

cyprus22120.html

[Piratis]

Why are Cypriots so stupid and stubborn? All solutions will involve huge losses and injustices to both sides. Meanwhile, Cypriots are wasting their lives and resources on waiting for ideal solutions that can never be achieved.Had we accepted Annan Plan Cyprus would now be a much more wealthy and friendly place . The offshore resources would be exploited for the benefit of its people rather than outsiders. Famagusta would , once again, have been a thriving tourist resort .Omorfu would be thriving with its citrus products.
One last thing ; you racists and losers would be redundant.

What are the "losses and injustices" of TCs with Annan plan? Giving back a small percentage of land which does not belong to them in the first place and getting in return legal control of everything else they illegally occupy, 50% of the power of Republic of Cyprus and EU membership is hardly a "loss".